Inflation in CN?

[Tobistus]

I'm amazed by what some of you have said about what it was like in the beginning.

3 mil is still alot to a noob nation and I cringe every time I hear one being greedy about it.

They have no idea that the same 3 mil will mean next to nothing in a few months.

Inflation can only go so far and raising the cap will just accellerate it.

edit: I kan spel

Yes and no. Most members of one month status are expected to have something like a 5 million war chest at the least.

So yes, money is easier to come by in higher quantity, making the individual dollar much less valuable. However, without proper aid, a nation won't reach the "recommended" war chests when back a few years, 100,000 was ALOT of money and daily CM strikes against 3-4 other nations in a day for a one monther meant that you were rich enough to afford them. Now, if you can't afford such a daily regiment for at least a month's time, your not adequately equipped.

This all being for nations of the 1 month specter, a good level of determining a newbie who will stay or a newbie who will not stay.

[White Chocolate]

Imagine my surprise though when I've heard back from nations saying, RnR offered us 12 million dollars to join, so we're going to join them instead.

This all leads me to the question is CN inflating? Are nations in CN getting so much larger, that money is now easily thrown around? If so what are some effects, and to what degree is this inflation?

If there is inflation, it's very very slow. 3 mil is still a lot of money to anyone who is new. I give 3 mil for 50 tech, but only to nations that have "most favored nation" status (i.e. inter-alliance deals and close allies).

As far as the 12 million deal, my educated guess is that it's a money for merger (i.e. absorption) deal. I'd also guess that the alliance being offered the money is 3-6 members large. If they are any more, they are being taken advantage of big time and (if they care about money) should hold out for at LEAST 18 million. This is based on my experience as a leader of an alliance who has had it's share of absorption offers. The usual was 3 mil per member - maybe 4 if the offeror was feeling generous.

[Bob Janova]

I would say that monetary inflation has pretty much stalled, actually, because once your free income (money after bills, nuke purchases and other essential outlay) reaches $1.5m/day ($1.8m/day with a DRA), you can already send out $3m in every slot forever. NS inflation has continued, but I'm no more able or willing to pay $3m/50 now than I was at half the size, because it greatly reduces my tech import rate (i.e. trading is slot-limited, not dollar-limited).

Apart from invite only alliances, there's too much risk of a new member absconding or just never contributing (OOC: often deleting from the game) to give more than 4 or 5 slots to. Alliance banks are slot-limited too.

[Voodoo Nova]

I received 300k to trade with Lady Dakota when I started and it was lots of money, now any semi-organized alliance can give you 3m for join them easy. That being said I refuse to do tech deal in 3m/50t rate, 3m for 100 tech is a very good rate already.

I have a 3mil/50t rate for alliance members to help them grow up faster.

Other than that, it's 3/100.

[fallin]

It's amazing how much things have changed since I first began. In my beginnings in CON, we were giving out $500k for new members, and we thought we were being generous. When I began VA, we started out at $1 million per new member, still thinking that that was a good number. Nowadays, if you're not offering $15 mill for a noob, you're gonna have a tougher sell. Some of these larger alliances (from what I've seen) have offered in excess of $80 million for new members. It's just insane.

As for tech selling, I will do $3m/50t for new members of my alliance and sometimes just for other VA members and our protectorates, but I will not sell it for less than $3m/100t to anyone outside of that. It's not my place to build other alliance's members.

My stingy lil alliance only gave me three mil when I joined. 80 million? Where do I sign up?

[Joe Izuzu]

I like the hubris of larger nations stating that it is inequitable for them to have to decrease the efficiency of their slots, while completely ignoring the corresponding inefficiency of the sellers' slots. It is OK for sellers to take the hit, but not for the buyers? A bit self-serving, wouldn't you say?

As I have stated in another thread, I believe that 3/50 deals are equitable simply because they put the sellers and buyers on an equal footing in terms of slot reciprocity. Each nation gets incoming compensation on a 1:1 ratio, instead of 2:1.

That being said, I await with delicious anticipation the advent of the 6/50 deal in the potentially not too distant future. Since the buyers have had the slot advantage for years, it will be (can I really say it?) karmic justice to have the situation reversed.

This is only of intellectual interest to me, since I will never sell tech to anyone outside my alliance ever again and for my comrades, I will sell at whatever rate serves to benefit the interests of Pacifica. Assuming, of course, that I am ever allowed to sell tech again.

*grumbles about terms and wanders off in a disgruntled fashion

[loannes]

I only buy 50 tech for 3 mil if the seller is a member of my alliance or a friend of mine.

[Schattenmann]

I remember when 500k and 2k soldiers was enough to keep you going for a couple weeks, but it was in Vox, not in 2006.

[Fort Pitt]

Yeah, for the average active and knowledgeable member, I'd say money's pretty much thrown around. It's a waste of a slot not to send at least 3 mill.

Echoing this statement.

Just whatever you do, don't believe those who say the tech rate is 3mil for 50 tech. If anything it should be 3mil for 150 tech instead of the 3mil 100 tech standard.

[Earogema]

This all leads me to the question is CN inflating? Are nations in CN getting so much larger, that money is now easily thrown around? If so what are some effects, and to what degree is this inflation?

OH ADMIN YES.

I mean, people have warchests that allow their 10k+ infra nations to rebuild from ZI.

That's just BS.

EDIT:

I remember when 500k and 2k soldiers was enough to keep you going for a couple weeks, but it was in Vox, not in 2006.

I lol'd, because of how true it was. D:

I also think I sent you that much one time.

Edited January 16, 2010 by Earogema

[HeroicDisaster]

3M is nothing really, I actually feel more guilty using my aid slot.

[AngolaThree]

CyberNations exists in an interesting economic realm- generally speaking money will be becoming less valuable because there's no scarcity (infrastructure, technology and land have no global cap; you're supplied with daily money that's not depletable; resources continue to have the same returns). However, there's essentially a price ceiling (or floor, depending on how you look at it), because there is a cap on aid per slot, and there is a very dramatic scarcity of aid slots.

Thus while the actual price of tech in a more laissez-faire society would have exceeded its current rate, because dealing in less than 3million/50tech bundles is inefficient, prices remain artificially inelastic.

[Penkala]

honestly, that would totally rock. accept it would be really long unless TOP and Gramlins went toe to toe against one another.

If TOP and Gramlins went toe to toe it'd be even longer than otherwise.

[iamthey]

Raising the caps would be nice, but yeah 3mil is basically nothing. As for tech, the only thing that bothers me about paying 3kk/50tech is the fact that I'm bringing in tech at half the rate I was before. Much less efficient, especially for the relative gain a newer nation gets out of the 1.2m they grab from a a 3m/100tech as it is. (Which is why I think 3m/100 will stay possible for awhile.)

Also I remember the days when 3m/150tech was the norm .

[Qaianna]

Ah, memories. My first war, I ended up with $7.5M dumped on my nation, with so many soldiers that they were falling off the land I had at the time. Ever since then I've never considered my nation growth normal.

Seriously, tho, I'd say that $3M is still a good chunk of change for a smaller nation; however, at some point you're actually clearing that much as profit from nation development a day. That's about where the fun begins, I guess.

One other issue that doesn't help is how important money is to begin with--someone earlier griped about warchests that can get you from 0 infra to 4 or 5 thousand. Problem is, how do you convince someone to NOT go with that? Remember, you have to not only bank your own rebuilding, you also have to watch your allies', and let's not forget if you happen to LOSE the war.

And yes, it still gives me a chuckle to see the sample aid screen showing how it works, and how small those amounts were. Any of those would invite the wrath of God for being an obvious mockery of the system rather than an actual cash donation.

Hmm..here's another question. How often do soldiers end up shipped in aid?

[Asriel Belacqua]

Hmm..here's another question. How often do soldiers end up shipped in aid?

I sent 2 soldiers to a LoSS nation recently as "escorts" (hookers) to thank them for the recent war... does that count?

Also, I imagine that they aren't sent that often, however I could see the use of sending 2K soldiers to a smaller nation while sending them 3mil (or whatever cash you have on hand) in aid. It'd make buying those 2K soldiers much easier for that nation (and 2K soldiers for a small nation would definitely be enough to do a bit of damage on another small nation).

[KingEsus]

Inflation can only go so far and raising the cap will just accellerate it.

That's probably true but even raising it to 5mil might open up new opportunities for trade and gameplay. I think it's a shame that the cap has been 3mil for so long now.

[Instr]

Not really, 3m/50 v 3m/100 is a loss of about 25% volume. 3m/50 is 25 tech per slot, 3m/100 is 100/3 tech per slot, so it comes out to 25% reduction.

The main problem is that the process of tech dealing transforms sellers into buyers, which induces further inflation in tech costs. By increasing the cost of tech, you also increase the rate at which sellers are transformed into buyers, and without controls on this process the tech market will collapse and the amount of tech available in CN will become stagnant except for nuclear wars, which will reduce the amount of tech in the game world.

Edited January 20, 2010 by Inst

[Qaianna]

I sent 2 soldiers to a LoSS nation recently as "escorts" (hookers) to thank them for the recent war... does that count?

Also, I imagine that they aren't sent that often, however I could see the use of sending 2K soldiers to a smaller nation while sending them 3mil (or whatever cash you have on hand) in aid. It'd make buying those 2K soldiers much easier for that nation (and 2K soldiers for a small nation would definitely be enough to do a bit of damage on another small nation).

Agreed--I got a 2 kilosoldier influx when someone took a potshot at me during my first week. I was barred from buying more at that point--something about having more soldiers than citizens or some technicality like that. I don't remember if I just tossed them off the Islands when that was done, or built more islands so they stopped falling into the North Atlantic.

[Marcos]

Ahh the good ole days, I joined the day after GWIII(with my first nation), I tried to join in the middle of it(I did not know at first) but the CN site was down. This was 3 days after SWF was disbanded, so I just quit. After I re-rolled sometime in May 2007, I joined -SE-...back when we were still using a banking system . Right now alliances no longer have that, I wonder when was the point when the banking system was done with all together in adoption for warchests, that would show the start of inflation in its early stages.

[Prime minister Johns]

yep banks are now useless, they can not possibly ship useful amounts of money any more.

[Bad JuJu]

The supply for tech has remained the same.

The demand for tech has exploded due to the new battle odds effects it gives.

The 3M/50 tech price is more than fair but it quickly elevates the sellers to positions of buyers, which makes the tech shortage even worse.

[Marcos]

yep banks are now useless, they can not possibly ship useful amounts of money any more.

Well for noobs it can, heres to hoping this new war will last long to bring back the days of 3 million going a long ways!