Inflation in CN?

[supercoolyellow]

The hot topics on the world affairs forums seem to be a ghost angry with the alliance they were ghosting, a post where I noobishly asked if an alliance was being protected (wish I could have that one back,) and debate over the TPF war CB, which ended almost two weeks ago, so its high time the Policy Corner returns.

I originally joined CN in July of 2008 and joined the first alliance to recruit me, Pyramid. When I joined I had to jump through a lot of hoops just to sell tech at the 3 mill 100 tech price. I fought in the coalition war, but then lost my nation to the 2000 infra jump, a concept I did not figure out until AFTER my nation was bill locked and several million dollars in debt.

At that point I just quit CN.

This fall I came back, and found that there is such a great demand for tech that buyers are some times begging for sellers, and are easily willing to buy at the 3 mill 50 tech price. I've also noticed that nations willing to bank are now easy to come by.

At BTO we have a pretty nifty way of using money to recruit members, but I won't be telling my secrets on how we do this . Imagine my surprise though when I've heard back from nations saying, RnR offered us 12 million dollars to join, so we're going to join them instead.

This all leads me to the question is CN inflating? Are nations in CN getting so much larger, that money is now easily thrown around? If so what are some effects, and to what degree is this inflation?

In my next Policy Corner, I will likely be posting about what I believe to be one of the less obvious but more reaching effects of inflation.

Special notes:

On my last policy corner I asserted that MK had too many treaties. After being part of the Coalition of Coincidence and seeing how TPF's large amounts of treaties came to help them, peace mode strategy and delay aside, I am now a believer in having more treaties. So, MK, I believe I was wrong, you do not have too many treaties.

Also thoughts and prayers are with the people of Haiti today.

[Cairna]

Yeah, for the average active and knowledgeable member, I'd say money's pretty much thrown around. It's a waste of a slot not to send at least 3 mill.

[Louis Balfour]

I do wish they'd increase the aid caps in game...

For me, a tech seller, the main reason I sell tech at 50/$3mil is the fact that I don't like to have my aid slots tied up with outgoing tech for two weeks with no income coming in. If the demand for tech was lower, I'd sell 50 tech for 1.5 mil. But it's not, so I won't get out of bed for less than $3mil.

[Prime minister Johns]

Yeah, for the average active and knowledgeable member, I'd say money's pretty much thrown around. It's a waste of a slot not to send at least 3 mill.

3 million is what I consider to be "walking around" money.

It's the kind of cash I am happy to send off to some random who just got raided so he can rebuild and expect nothing in return.

But I agree money is a lot easier to come by than it was when I first started.

[Dochartaigh]

i started CN at a time when getting 10k cash was awesome. there was no aid cap that i recall during this time either just that nations were fairly tiny. i was 10k NS and seen as a banker by Polaris.

[Owned-You]

I started in a time when 500k was considered to be what the big-time rollers were banking with a few notable exceptions. Now days however, that number can be exceeded with proper development aid in a month...or rather less if you really play your cards right.

That being said, I make it rain.

[terveis]

I remember when i got my first aid packet, it was something like 1.5m and i went crazy, it made me feel like a rich man. Nowadays when i send 3m to a nation, i feel like letting them down, i would really hope that they would raise the limits on foreign aid.

[Lord Fingolfin]

Inflation exists, however an artificial cap to inflation exists in the form of aid slot and amount limits.

/thread

Now continue reminiscing about how you got 50k and were like "ZOMG CASH!"

[Valtamdraugr]

I'm amazed by what some of you have said about what it was like in the beginning.

3 mil is still alot to a noob nation and I cringe every time I hear one being greedy about it.

They have no idea that the same 3 mil will mean next to nothing in a few months.

Inflation can only go so far and raising the cap will just accellerate it.

edit: I kan spel

Edited January 14, 2010 by Valtamdraugr

[D34th]

I received 300k to trade with Lady Dakota when I started and it was lots of money, now any semi-organized alliance can give you 3m for join them easy. That being said I refuse to do tech deal in 3m/50t rate, 3m for 100 tech is a very good rate already.

Edited January 14, 2010 by D34th

[anenu]

Of course their is inflation. My nation isn't even that large yet 15 mil is chump change when talking about purchasing power.

On another note i never liked how alliances gave out money for just joining. I can understand giving out some money for passing an entrance exam or an academy and what not, and maybe throw in a little extra if they do good, but unless a nation has proven some willingness to help or shown that they plan to stick around i don't like the idea of just throwing cash at them.

[Aloop]

Sure, there's inflation in CN. The only thing that's holding people back from demonstrating just how much is the 3 mil/50 tech cap on aid slots.

The 3/50 tech deal rate is a simple fact of supply and demand. People willing to sell tech have buyers all over them. Raising the price from 3/100 to 3/50 will drive some off, but people desperate enough for the tech will pay, cause 3 mil isn't a lot of money for at the end of the day for the people who are sitting on billions.

[Dave93]

at a nation of my size (25kish, i was 35k before i got nuked 6 times) the 3mil for 50 or 100 tech is nothing, if I don't get the tech though I don't really care because its only money, 3mil is nothing, anything up to about 20mil is nothing to me

[Cortath]

The first recorded tech deal that we have a record of was 1 unit of tech for $11,000.

So yeah, there's been some inflation.

[Guffey]

when i first joined CN in March 2007, startup aid was like 50k in my alliance. I remember thinking back and our strongest person was at 999 infra, and it felt like they made a fortune back then. It took everyone a long time to build up. But as things continued, things increased exponentially because of the cash floating around. I left CN after war of coalition and joined back up a few months later. By then i was able to get from 0 infra to 3999 infra in about a month and a half- 2 months. i had 15 mill startup aid from previous friends, which with a single 10 day back cycle netted me at 999 infra, another back collect cycel and another 15 mill netted me at 1999 infra. 20 days to get to a point which took months to get to before because of b/c knowledge and tons of cash coming in.

Now, 3 mill is a drop in a bucket, almost no effect at all. But because of the aid caps, i think we have reached a point where 15 mill can be dropped on a bunch of people in your alliance very quickly to boost them. Since no more than 15 mill can be given in 10 days, growth is about as fast as it can be starting up.

[kpcurley]

I received 300k to trade with Lady Dakota when I started and it was lots of money, now any semi-organized alliance can give you 3m for join them easy. That being said I refuse to do tech deal in 3m/50t rate, 3m for 100 tech is a very good rate already.

no way it sucks, the nations make like 1.2 mil of that, and I save well over 20,000,000 dollars out of that deal. 50 tech cost me about 12,000,000

so only paying 3,000,000 for it is awesome.

[The Feather]

I think increasing infra prices help to check inflation. In addition, inflation doesn't really harm your economy.

[TrilobyteMan]

no way it sucks, the nations make like 1.2 mil of that, and I save well over 20,000,000 dollars out of that deal. 50 tech cost me about 12,000,000

so only paying 3,000,000 for it is awesome.

You have to think relatively. For a small nation 1.2mil is a lot, and for you 20mil isn't. It's a nice balance of profit for each of you. But because of supply/demand/greed/laziness, it's inflated to a point where the small nation profits greatly. If that small nation profits so much, they'll soon be at the tech purchasing stage, which drives demand up even more, and lowers the supply.

[Acca Dacca]

I wish we had an all out nuclear war unitl 3mil is alot again.

[Dochartaigh]

I wish we had an all out nuclear war unitl 3mil is alot again.

honestly, that would totally rock. accept it would be really long unless TOP and Gramlins went toe to toe against one another.

[El Hefe]

honestly, that would totally rock. accept it would be really long unless TOP and Gramlins went toe to toe against one another.

Hey TOP! I heard Gramlins talkin trash about your momma!

[Derantol]

honestly, that would totally rock. accept it would be really long unless TOP and Gramlins went toe to toe against one another.

*warning; post has not been stat-checked, all statistics are generated from memory/made up on the spot*

Grämlins would need help, though. TOP has over 200 nations, and Grämlins is down to 60ish, as far as I remember. It'd be more like TOP vs. the rest of Citadel, and I don't have the numbers in front of me, so I don't actually know how that turns out.

As far as inflation goes, it probably has a lot to do with the fact that the ratio of tech-buying to tech-selling nations is getting bigger and bigger. 5,000 nations buying tech from 25,000 is quite a bit different than even a 1:1 ratio, and I'd guess it's more like 2:1 these days, if not worse. And that's with the rising rate of the "buy tech" infra point; when you actually needed 1,000 infra and 75 tech to get nukes, because the top 5% just wasn't enough, that's when you started buying tech. These days, I see people getting to 3k and 4k infra before even considering importing tech as an option. Not so much because they need tech farming money, but because there's too much demand and not enough supply, and these nations want to sell tech to their alliance to help out.

[Cesar Julian]

The 3 million/50 Tech deal is more than just doubling the seller's profit. Aside from that, he only needs to use the slot for 20 days instead pf 30, which in turn means more deals which means even more profit. If sellers could send 100 in 20 days you would see more 3/m100T deals. I'm not saying the cap should be raised though.

I've sold 700 Tech, 200 were on 3m/100t and to my alliance, the other 500 were 3m/50t.

[Il Principe]

The 3 million/50 Tech deal is more than just doubling the seller's profit. Aside from that, he only needs to use the slot for 20 days instead pf 30, which in turn means more deals which means even more profit.

So the seller grows faster and starts buying earlier.

Besides it would take 4 aid slots to sell 100 tech while it takes only 3 slots to sell tech at a price of 3 million/100 tech

I think selling tech for less as 3 mill/100 tech should be a accepted casus belli. It deprives other alliances of tech.

[JWConner]

It's amazing how much things have changed since I first began. In my beginnings in CON, we were giving out $500k for new members, and we thought we were being generous. When I began VA, we started out at $1 million per new member, still thinking that that was a good number. Nowadays, if you're not offering $15 mill for a noob, you're gonna have a tougher sell. Some of these larger alliances (from what I've seen) have offered in excess of $80 million for new members. It's just insane.

As for tech selling, I will do $3m/50t for new members of my alliance and sometimes just for other VA members and our protectorates, but I will not sell it for less than $3m/100t to anyone outside of that. It's not my place to build other alliance's members.