Concerning the use of the Karma moniker

[Keresztes]

A Doitzel is the standard unit of ego measurement 'round these parts. Doitzel has a ego measuring 1 Doitzel. TOP's involvement in wars, however, is more difficult to measure. It usually requires a conference of the most bespectacled grandees of the international scientific community, a complex stat-crunching algorithm and reading the entrails of a peahen.

I truly lol'd. Good one.

As for everything else: blah blah blah blah

[Nananana]

Don't get me wrong, I was merely wondering if we should expect Umar to go rogue on us or TOP to attack!

I think sometimes you forget that we're The Order of the Paradox.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Nananana

[Neuromancer7]

Edit: Warning, this post may contain more then the daily recommended dose of Sarcasm.

TOP Speed!

Oh... Wait. The Order of the Paradox isn't involved.

Actually, nobody that they're allied to is involved either.

So, let me get this straight, somebody out there thinks that a large enough percentage of digiterra is waiting to hear what The Order of the Paradox is going to do about things that NONE of The Phoenix Federation's allies have joined them in this fight? Because they're all waiting on TOP's Say So?

I really didn't know that so very many people would wait this long for approval from TOP to do anything at all. You'd think that they could have at least put up an away message, or perhaps claimed some sort of religious exemption? Wait, I know, everyone's going to give up Peace for New Years and we can have us a whole year of war.

I really Really doubt that TPF's allies are THAT interested in playing a perpetual game of Mother May I.

Also: Hi!

Additionally: For what it matters, and I'll freely admit that's not much, on the Casus Belli scale the one used against The Pheoinx Federation rates, in My opinion, somewhere around "Questionable at Best".

Finally: Some people around here, and I'm REALLY not going to name any names, should really consider READING their posts before posting them. If even a casual glance at what you're saying shows self contradiction... Surely you can put it better?

Even More Finally: I really can't believe I read 22 pages of this thing. I don't know if I should laugh or cry at the waste of time... Never mind, I'll just do a shot.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Neuromancer7

[mdnss69]

Ah and so the spokes-thingy for Karma comes forward at long last. Tell me little mushroom man, are you so frustrated that nobody, absolutely nobody has has answered you're many desperate pleas for public attention in the last few days so you have to go and make up a topic referring to grammer and that you have mobilised ~100 other little mushrooms for 3 days straight now? That might be refereed to as a symptom of ADD.

Also - boo frickin who for you.

[Marty McFly]

To all the people who are the "TPF side" claiming the CB is faulty, isn't that more of an incentive to fight the war? Wouldn't you want to protect your ally against an unjustified war instead of hiding from the public view like WAE is doing? The only reason you aren't following through is cowardice. The other reason isn't really a viable one.

Just a thought...

[Meer Republic]

As self important as ever, good effort.

[lebubu]

TOP Speed!

Cutting edge of humour here.

Oh... Wait. The Order of the Paradox isn't involved.

Congrats on stating the obvious.

So, let me get this straight, somebody out there thinks that a large enough percentage of digiterra is waiting to hear what The Order of the Paradox is going to do about things that NONE of The Phoenix Federation's allies have joined them in this fight? Because they're all waiting on TOP's Say So?

lol.

I really didn't know that so very many people would wait this long for approval from TOP to do anything at all. You'd think that they could have at least put up an away message, or perhaps claimed some sort of religious exemption? Wait, I know, everyone's going to give up Peace for New Years and we can have us a whole year of war.

lol

Also: Hi!

Sup

Additionally: For what it matters, and I'll freely admit that's not much, on the Casus Belli scale the one used against The Pheoinx Federation rates, in My opinion, somewhere around "Questionable at Best".

Ok

Finally: Some people around here, and I'm REALLY not going to name any names, should really consider READING their posts before posting them. If even a casual glance at what you're saying shows self contradiction... Surely you can put it better?

Even More Finally: I really can't believe I read 22 pages of this thing. I don't know if I should laugh or cry at the waste of time... Never mind, I'll just do a shot.

I can't believe you went through 22 pages without reading a single word of the OP. There is little to no mention of TOP there, the only people that brought TOP into this were the Paradoxians who felt that that Archon's post is somehow directed toward them. But as you said, TOP isn't really involved in this until some of their treaties with TPF's allies kick in - which may or may not happen. Which brings me to...

As self important as ever, good effort.

Irony itp.

edit: I should really learn how quoting works on IPB

Edited December 30, 2009 by lebubu

[Neuromancer7]

~snip~

I can't believe you went through 22 pages without reading a single word of the OP. There is absolutely no mention of TOP there, the only people that brought TOP into this were the Paradoxians who felt that that Archon's post is somehow directed toward them. But as you said, TOP isn't really involved in this until some of their treaties with TPF's allies kick in - which may or may not happen.

~ Snip~

edit: I should really learn how quoting works on IPB

First: Generally it seems to me that what's being said is only partially what's actually being said... If you take my meaning(please don't take it to far)

Secondly: I'd have sworn I saw people aside from TOP needling TOP on their lack of involvement, but perhaps you've the right of it. I'm sure as heck not going back through to read things again and make sure I've got everything in the proper order.

Thirdly: I like Sarcasm, it works for me and I'll probably stick with it as long as it does.

Finally: Actually I have nothing to say regarding the OP. I'm really more peeved at all the essentially off topic posting that has happened in the thread that he started.

Yet More Finally: You seemed to do alright with the quoting thing to me.

Edit: It really should be obvious, but there are in absolutely no particular order.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Neuromancer7

[Nizzle]

Gloves coming off ITT

[delgursh]

To all the people who are the "TPF side" claiming the CB is faulty, isn't that more of an incentive to fight the war? Wouldn't you want to protect your ally against an unjustified war instead of hiding from the public view like WAE is doing? The only reason you aren't following through is cowardice. The other reason isn't really a viable one.

Just a thought...

IRON has agoraphobia. An alliance wide condition since birth. We tried to keep our affliction hidden for so long, but it's gotten out to the world at large it now seems. We're here though, I promise you that. Even if we aren't in the spotlight.

[Chalaskan]

The OP Reminds me of that kids saying..."I'm rubber you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you."

LOL, Just more eloquent in the wording.

[Marty McFly]

IRON has agoraphobia. An alliance wide condition since birth. We tried to keep our affliction hidden for so long, but it's gotten out to the world at large it now seems. We're here though, I promise you that. Even if we aren't in the spotlight.

Here as in ready to start the show?

I don't know, but from what I remember of the Hegemony days, many IRON members were quite open and out there.

[Chaoshawk]

There you go.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/7776/evidence.jpg

Oh OK, so that's the plan.

[Roadie]

you all are eventually either going to fight or sit out which will either cause me to fight or sit out

Holy Crap, are you really trying to sell it as our allies fault that you may or may not have to fight a war?

[erikz]

What's karma?

nvm, word filter evasion.

Edited December 30, 2009 by erikz

[delgursh]

Here as in ready to start the show?

I don't know, but from what I remember of the Hegemony days, many IRON members were quite open and out there.

We're less vocal now because the OWF lost its ability to be a relatively civil place. I wonder if there ever was any civility here anyway sometimes. Over time it's just been a drag on us having to deal with the arguments here. Its a waste to spend our time arguing with people out here, so we save our breath. NO U and character attacks have become the norm and its always getting worse. It might have been bad back then too, but the constant grind of OWF fights takes a toll on ya over time. And how often do debates lead to,"You know what, you might be right about that?" Not often. Most IRON folk tend to want to avoid unnecessary drama. A few of us still get out here of course, but most don't even want to waste their time. So we've become even more quiet over the months and years as we've become more apathetic toward this place.

edited for spelling

Edited December 30, 2009 by delgursh

[shahenshah]

Del you noob, I told you not to speak sense on OWF!

[nekro448]

o/ Hail The Archon !!

[avernite]

Just wanted to take a few moments, given my once prestigious position, to point a few things out.

One: If you call the people assailing TPF "Karma", that makes you folks the "Hegemony." This is a fact, because Karma was a wartime coalition that existed to oppose the Hegemony and ceased to exist afterwards, just as the CoaLUEtion fought the NPO and ~ fought the Unjust Highway. Coalitions don't magically reform (note: the alliances you're calling Karma did not comprise the entirety of Karma), and as they're not really de jure entities in the first place they don't really magically reappear anyway to suit your PR needs. But, on that note...

Karma is a group of alliances, commonly associated with C&G and SF as the central blocs of that coalition. However, I suppose calling you Supercomplaints would also be fitting, given this thread. In which case magically the other side isn't the Hegemony anymore.

Two: If the crux of your argument (and trust me, most of you *are* pushing this train of thought) is that Karma is as bad, if not worse, than the Hegemony, then you're certainly acknowledging that the Hegemony was bad. However, as per the previous point, you're identifying yourselves as the Hegemony (i.e. the forces that Karma existed to oppose and ceased to exist once defeating). Which means that any time you take a moment to trash on Karma being evil, you're really just trashing on yourselves by transitivity. It's really painful to watch, so please stop.

Apart from my lack of desire to actually trust you: Supercomplaints is indeed acting in a bad fashion, and so all YOUR bashing of the Hegemony back in the day was just you bashing yourselves by transitivity. It was really painfull to watch, so please stop.

Three: The amount of crap the allies of TPF have gotten is because nearly 3 full days have elapsed without a peep from any of them. There's a certain expectation of promptness with respect to the honoring of treaties on Planet Bob, and when it takes you three full ****ing days to get yourselves together it's kind of embarrassing. Even if you go on to win, it's still pretty embarrassing. The fact that you failed to address anything, even whether you were analyzing the CB and debating whether to support TPF (or, as the case may or may not be, deciding whether to opportunistically take a shot at various people and/or alleviate boredom), it might not have hurt to have said something. Not a CoC-style cancellation, mind you, but something. What you shouldn't do, though, is magically 180 from your previous stance of this war being evil and the CB being wrong to suddenly lusting for war and whining that it might end before you can enter. You took days to get your stuff together to enter. Don't whine, don't complain. You failed miserably, and you failed your allies by waiting three days. No matter what else happened, you proved you were unready for war and you're utter failures in that regard. Whether you win or lose does not change this fact. And no, I don't care if you were secretly just waiting/hoping/praying to get the support of TOP as a number of folks have claimed quietly in back channels. It's still pretty damn sad.

You, sir, are talking nonsense. The primary goal of an ally is NOT to die along with you. It is to help you win your war.

Given the utter crap used as a CB out of the blue, not to mention the size of the coalition apparently assembled against TPF, it may take longer to organise a victorious response than normal... but then again, Karma was organising from the moment NPO first approached OV and that also took several days.

Four: I'm not going to take any time here to address or defend the CB as presented by Athens and RoK. The war started, you all are eventually either going to fight or sit out which will either cause me to fight or sit out, so I'm not wasting anyone's time. The fact is, a community was threatened and there are logs to prove it. My ally chose to use military might to ensure no further threats would ensue, and I will defend that decision. So will my alliance. We've been ready for 3 days now. We had over 100 people (out of what...170?) on IRC the last few nights just waiting to ruin someone's day. We're not really afraid of whether we get hit in retaliation or not - it's part of the game, and we'd respect the alliance for (finally) sticking up for its treaties. It's what we're doing, and it's a nice common ground to fight on. So, I'm not posting this to carry over the same damn debates. I'm here to point out some of the flaws I've been seeing and imploring you to stop damaging our brain cells any further. Take it as you will.

So, in short, you're having everyone wasting his time because your opposition doesn't do what you want? Well, boohoo! This thread and those like it are what damages braincells, not people waiting a few days before giving you what you want.

[Feanor Noldorin]

I haven't seen TOP this riled up since the days of the Great Wars, and I must say, it's rather refreshing. Also, I'm quite keen to see how the preform in a war were it is very likely that they will be on the outnumbered side.

Sit back and enjoy the show. It's going to be grand.

[R&R-Viking]

Ah, 23 pages, and still arguing over the CB. Same sides, same positions. Guess what? War's still going. The debate is irrelevant. One side thinks it's valid and acted, one side thinks it's not. That second set hasn't acted, and probably won't.

Stop crying.

[Petrovich4]

So, in short, you're having everyone wasting his time because your opposition doesn't do what you want? Well, boohoo! This thread and those like it are what damages braincells, not people waiting a few days before giving you what you want.

This. Some parts of the OP came off as whining (Sorry Archon, it did). Personally, when they roll tonight, it'll be brilliant cuz tomorrow is NYE and not as many ppl will be rolling tmrw nite for a quad attack.

You have ex Hegemeny alliances and now all of Citadel vs SF+C&G and FB later on.

Everyone's always complaining about a reset. Well, this war will see over 3/4 of the alliances lose the majority of their strength. Remember GW1, because top ranks belong to Cit.

GL ladies

[Volker von Alzey]

Karma police, arrest this man

He talks in maths

He buzzes like a fridge

He's like a detuned radio

...

This is what you'll get

This is what you'll get

This is what you'll get when you mess with us

that is all

[Haflinger]

No one wants you. No one ever wanted you.

Just how naive do you think we are?

<&Delta1212[RIA]> TOP is a huge, huge, HUGE problem

<@Jim> A situation where NpO fires its 4200 nukes at TOP's 4100 sounds like christmas

Yes, the SF-TOP relationship is all just sunshine and rainbows.

Let us all hold hands and frolic.

It never occurred to you that curb stomps are not only unfair, but just plain no fun? Your saying its impossible for an alliance to engage in a war if they know full well that the other alliances partners will defend them? By your logic, all wars should just be curb stomps, and I'm under the impression we just threw off those shackles.

You thought wrong. Your allies are not interested in wars they do not possess a significant numerical advantage for. Else there would have been a war not that long ago.

Instead they waited for this one.

[Kzoppistan]

Look out, it's coming.

Edited December 30, 2009 by Kzoppistan