Countdown to Athens Rep Payment

[Iotupa]

You mean the majority of the posters here are mindless idiots? I would have never guessed!

I suppose I've been out of politics too long and had just forgotten how poorly 99% of the people acted and posted around here.

[Imperator Hades]

I suppose I've been out of politics too long and had just forgotten how poorly 99% of the people acted and posted around here.

Let me guess..Your in the 1% right?

Edited December 2, 2009 by Imperator Hades

[Iotupa]

Let me guess..Your in the 1% right?

Sometimes I'm in the 99%, sometimes I'm in the 1%. I'm not egotistical enough to assume that ALL of my posts are quality.

[Jgoods45]

What an amusing topic. Reps will be paid when all parties agree to a figure. I believe the 400mill and 2k tech will be accepted by Knights of Ni! though, so all will work out in the end. It's not as much as the figure they first suggested (that figure shall remain private, no need to bring more dirty laundry out into the public arena), but it's still a substantial figure which could be increased if need be.

It's been said over and over on these forums. We are sincerely apologetic to the Knights of Ni! over this incident. We have made the appropriate amends to Knights of Ni! and have changed some of our police to make sure that something like this never happens again. We have apologized to all of our allies for the communication failure on our end and for putting them all in a difficult situation.

I would of thought that the NPO would of been happy if we diverted some of the reps they owe us to the Knights of Ni!. It was suggested in our own government disucssions, but immediately rejected by rsoxbronco1 and others. This situation has been handled correctly in our minds. War reparations will be paid to Knights of Ni! and all will be good in the end.

Edited December 2, 2009 by Jgoods45

[Iotupa]

What an amusing topic. Reps will be paid when all parties agree to a figure. I believe the 400mill and 2k tech will be accepted by Knights of Ni! though, so all will work out in the end. It's not as much as the figure they first suggested, but it's still a substantial figure.

Out of curiosity, did you guys really do THAT much damage to them?

[Tygaland]

I suppose I've been out of politics too long and had just forgotten how poorly 99% of the people acted and posted around here.

Leave Bilrow Alone!!!!!1!!

[Iotupa]

Leave Bilrow Alone!!!!!1!!

I enjoy the humor.

[Jgoods45]

Out of curiosity, did you guys really do THAT much damage to them?

Thats a really good question. Sorry If I don't know the answer to it. I'm sure someone out their has the exact statistics but I don't so no idea really.

[Matthew Conrad]

And then you have more people who come in, STILL attacking the person posting the message and the alliance he is from, completely ignoring the message he posted.

No, I'm attacking the person because of the message he posted. He doesn't give a rats $@! about Ni!

[Heft]

No, I'm attacking the person because of the message he posted. He doesn't give a rats $@! about Ni!

To be fair, neither does anyone else.

[Senekis]

Out of curiosity, did you guys really do THAT much damage to them?

Damage done not only consists of actual loses but future damage caused by the attacks (wasted free slots, time to rebuils, $%&@ed up back collections, etc...).

I don't know the numbers (not that I care), but I think reparations should always be way bigger than the initial damage caused.

[Iotupa]

Thats a really good question. Sorry If I don't know the answer to it. I'm sure someone out their has the exact statistics but I don't so no idea really.

If you could point somewhere here that does know, or find out and drop me a private message, I would appreciate it, if only because I am curious.

No, I'm attacking the person because of the message he posted. He doesn't give a rats $@! about Ni!

To be fair, neither does anyone else.

Well, look at that, Heft pretty much took the words out of my mouth. In the end, as I said before, the "why" doesn't matter much for the original message. It was a valid point of inquiry, albeit done in a manner I don't agree with. If you wish to attack his messages AFTER Athens clarified why they haven't sent and clarified that they would indeed be paying the reparations from their own nations, that makes complete sense. It, however, makes very little sense to attack someone simply because they brought up something you don't like and you happen to have something to smear him with that the larger community will agree with. That's just plain unintelligent. The best way to truly win an argument is with facts, not baseless insults, attempts to spin, or threats. If you say something truthful and follow through with it, you will gain far more in the long term than what the short term gain is by posting ridiculous things.

[Iotupa]

Damage done not only consists of actual loses but future damage caused by the attacks (wasted free slots, time to rebuils, $%&@ed up back collections, etc...).

I don't know the numbers (not that I care), but I think reparations should always be way bigger than the initial damage caused.

To a point I agree with you, but I don't think the reparations should just arbitrarily be "way bigger" than the initial damage. On the one hand, unprovoked wars without declarations of war should be frowned upon and punished, but on the other there is a point where you could be paying far more in reparations than what was lost/potentially future lost, and that is wrong.

But you are most certainly entitled to your opinion.

[Starfox101]

exactly, dont we keep hearing that NPO is stalling on their rep payments? As the song goes "Little less talk and alot more action"

tl;dr version:

meet

Completely not what I was talking about. Bilrow is not in charge of NPO rep payments anyway, so that's moot regardless.

Starfox, as someone who has had their points attacked based on who you are, you should be the LAST person I see on here dismissing a message solely because it comes from a certain person.

I've never PZI'd people then whined about others not paying reps and being jerks because of it.

You could say I'm an expert at noticing it, obviously.

How is that obvious? Just curious.

Nice Tu quoque logical fallacy.

This issue is still valid regardless of who raises it.

And attacks on the person who raised the question are not answering the question.

Luckily for us, it's been answered and addressed.

[ChairmanHal]

Once again ChairmanHal wades in without bothering to read first.

Londo has already said they are still working out the amount of reparations to be paid to KoN! and currently are awaiting a response from KoN! on that issue. Why would they start paying reps when no reps amount has been agreed yet?

It isn't that long of a thread so no real excuse for not reading it.

Read the thread, Twinkie. In fact I dare say I've read more about this situation than you have.

Once again though you don't farking read what I write. Don't worry, I'm getting used to it.

The aid train could have easily started to roll out of the station Day 1. A single $3 mill aid slot to each KoN nation that was attacked. Athens could then follow up later regarding a more specific amount of reparations if it was deemed that additional reparations were necessary. Instead, they continue to defer their obligation because the KoN won't engage in negotiations. Newsflash Twinkie, KoN barely has a government at all, certainly not one that is available at a level as you would expect a normal alliance government to be. Athens knows this. At the very least it makes it appear that Athens is hoping that they don't have to pay proper reparations and is taking advantage of the KoN's governmental inactivity.

[Tygaland]

Read the thread, Twinkie. In fact I dare say I've read more about this situation than you have.

Once again though you don't farking read what I write. Don't worry, I'm getting used to it.

The aid train could have easily started to roll out of the station Day 1. A single $3 mill aid slot to each KoN nation that was attacked. Athens could then follow up later regarding a more specific amount of reparations if it was deemed that additional reparations were necessary. Instead, they continue to defer their obligation because the KoN won't engage in negotiations. Newsflash Twinkie, KoN barely has a government at all, certainly not one that is available at a level as you would expect a normal alliance government to be. Athens knows this. At the very least it makes it appear that Athens is hoping that they don't have to pay proper reparations and is taking advantage of the KoN's governmental inactivity.

All of which is a lovely rant, Hal. But it does not address why Athens is obligated to send out reparations when the amount has not been agreed to by both parties. I'm sure Athens and KoN! are quite capable of managing their own affairs. Athens stating they have sent a reparations figure to KoN! doesn't really gel with your theory they are trying to avoid paying reparations.

Then again you never have let fact and logic get in the way of your stories.

By the way, is Twinkie a term of endearment? Because I think they are sweet.

[James I]

Read the thread, Twinkie. In fact I dare say I've read more about this situation than you have.

Once again though you don't farking read what I write. Don't worry, I'm getting used to it.

The aid train could have easily started to roll out of the station Day 1. A single $3 mill aid slot to each KoN nation that was attacked. Athens could then follow up later regarding a more specific amount of reparations if it was deemed that additional reparations were necessary. Instead, they continue to defer their obligation because the KoN won't engage in negotiations. Newsflash Twinkie, KoN barely has a government at all, certainly not one that is available at a level as you would expect a normal alliance government to be. Athens knows this. At the very least it makes it appear that Athens is hoping that they don't have to pay proper reparations and is taking advantage of the KoN's governmental inactivity.

Who are Athens to judge where the money goes? It should be obvious that $3M to a lot of the KoN nations (the larger ones) would be a waste. And just throwing 50 tech at them is going to cause the not inconsiderable inconvenience of having to re-arrange tech deals. Throwing $3M at random small nations might throw off a growth programme. Athens should absolutely wait until KoN provide a list of targets. Of course, agreement on a sum of reparations acceptable to both sides must be reached first. I'm feeling dizzy with all these circles we're going round in!

[Tygaland]

Who are Athens to judge where the money goes? It should be obvious that $3M to a lot of the KoN nations (the larger ones) would be a waste. And just throwing 50 tech at them is going to cause the not inconsiderable inconvenience of having to re-arrange tech deals. Throwing $3M at random small nations might throw off a growth programme. Athens should absolutely wait until KoN provide a list of targets. Of course, agreement on a sum of reparations acceptable to both sides must be reached first. I'm feeling dizzy with all these circles we're going round in!

You are assuming ChairmanHal treats issues on their merits. An understandable assumption but sadly not the case. Hal first looks at the title and the OP of a discussion and identifies the alliance/bloc/nation he dislikes and decrees that alliance/bloc/nation to be wrong.

Step two is where he forms an argument to support the conclusion he has leapt to and it really doesn't matter how inane or outlandish it is, he'll stick to it like chewing gum to the sole of your shoe. You'll note here how he skillfully glosses over any evidence that does not support this story. Breathtaking!

Step three is where people point out he is talking out his back passage and then he gets all pissy and calls you names or in extreme cased claims you are only arguing with him because he is in Valhalla.

Keep an eye out for it in future!

[Cyphon88]

Why have I got the song 'Countdownnnn, Countdown to the disappoinntttment' stuck in my head.

I blame this thread. This thread has caused crappy pop lyrics to get inside my head. And is indicative of the quality of this thread. 'nuff said.

[Skippy]

By the way, is Twinkie a term of endearment? Because I think they are sweet.

You two should get married, Hal is always waiting eagerly for a Tygapost, its like he's stalking you

You must be the one person who follows Tyga this much without actually following Tygaism (Hal)

Edited December 2, 2009 by Skippy

[ChairmanHal]

All of which is a lovely rant, Hal. But it does not address why Athens is obligated to send out reparations when the amount has not been agreed to by both parties. I'm sure Athens and KoN! are quite capable of managing their own affairs. Athens stating they have sent a reparations figure to KoN! doesn't really gel with your theory they are trying to avoid paying reparations.

Whether they are "going through the motions" or not, Athens owes reparations to the nations they attacked. If they are getting no where with the KoN government due to lack of communication, then the honorable thing to do is to go directly to the individual nations and settle up. Given the fact that Athens and "friends" were essentially using these nations as target practice, a minimum of $3 mill per nation would be a good figure as a settlement.

Then again you never have let fact and logic get in the way of your stories.

That an ironic and rather droll statement coming from someone who posted an announcement regarding reparations that didn't come from the source you indicated or an admission of guilt that never took place. Of course on Planet Tigger, as opposed to say Planet Bob, the facts are what you say they are and your illogic is always logical.

By the way, is Twinkie a term of endearment? Because I think they are sweet.

Also empty calories...sort of like your posts.

[Bob Janova]

I don't know of a single occasion in the past where an alliance has begun to send reps before the reps have even been agreed. Were you criticising NPO for not sending reps the moment they were clearly going to lose the war and have to pay some? ... of course not, that would be ridiculous. And so's this. Just throwing money and/or tech at nations when it might be out of sync with their aid cycles or requirements is not helpful, and any rep paying authority needs to arrange the payment with the government of the alliance they're paying the reps to.

[Tygaland]

Whether they are "going through the motions" or not, Athens owes reparations to the nations they attacked. If they are getting no where with the KoN government due to lack of communication, then the honorable thing to do is to go directly to the individual nations and settle up. Given the fact that Athens and "friends" were essentially using these nations as target practice, a minimum of $3 mill per nation would be a good figure as a settlement.

No one has said they are getting nowhere. You just made it up to fit your preconceived conclusion.

That an ironic and rather droll statement coming from someone who posted an announcement regarding reparations that didn't come from the source you indicated or an admission of guilt that never took place. Of course on Planet Tigger, as opposed to say Planet Bob, the facts are what you say they are and your illogic is always logical.

Trying to show you are not as ignorant as I claimed you are by showing ignorance of another situation. I am in awe.

Also empty calories...sort of like your posts.

Yet, you keep coming back for more of that sugary goodness.

[Tygaland]

I don't know of a single occasion in the past where an alliance has begun to send reps before the reps have even been agreed. Were you criticising NPO for not sending reps the moment they were clearly going to lose the war and have to pay some? ... of course not, that would be ridiculous. And so's this. Just throwing money and/or tech at nations when it might be out of sync with their aid cycles or requirements is not helpful, and any rep paying authority needs to arrange the payment with the government of the alliance they're paying the reps to.

I was going to say, the next war should be interesting. Once one side looks like losing they'll have to start sending reps while the war still goes on to ensure they don't get abused for not getting started on the payments early enough. Then afterwards they can work out what the total reps should be. Welcome to Planet Hal!

[ChairmanHal]

You are assuming ChairmanHal treats issues on their merits. An understandable assumption but sadly not the case. Hal first looks at the title and the OP of a discussion and identifies the alliance/bloc/nation he dislikes and decrees that alliance/bloc/nation to be wrong.

Step two is where he forms an argument to support the conclusion he has leapt to and it really doesn't matter how inane or outlandish it is, he'll stick to it like chewing gum to the sole of your shoe. You'll note here how he skillfully glosses over any evidence that does not support this story. Breathtaking!

Step three is where people point out he is talking out his back passage and then he gets all pissy and calls you names or in extreme cased claims you are only arguing with him because he is in Valhalla.

Step four (and every step along the way really) is where Tygaland makes up his mind what ChairmanHal has written and why even though its pretty clear Tygaland skimmed it and then picked out something to harp on for the next three paragraphs, whether it actually logically follows what ChairmanHal was saying or not.

Step five is where Tygaland decides that sarcasm might work better, failing that, calls ChairmanHal stupid.

Step six is where ChairmanHal concludes that while he is opposed to nuclear roguery on principle, he understands why some people would make an exception where Tygaland is concerned.

Step seven is where Tygaland needs to shut up, but ChairmanHal doesn't see that ever happening. After all, when you are dealing with someone that is still butthurt over surrender negotiations that happened OVER A YEAR AGO, it is unlikely that they will ever let anything else go, ever.

You two should get married, Hal is always waiting eagerly for a Tygapost, its like he's stalking you

Hardly. In fact if you check, I posted in this topic first and then responded to yet another swing and a miss by your boss at me.

You must be the one person who follows Tyga this much without actually following Tygaism (Hal)

No, in fact for a while I had your boss on ignore.

I get that STA wants to defend Athens in this matter. That's fine, but your boss is derailing that effort by coming after me personally. I'm quite capable of giving as good as I get when I have the time, but let's bottom line this: is it really going to cost Athens a huge chunk of money to aid the war victims directly? Not for Athens. Is it possible the aid victims will pee the money the money on silly stuff? Yep. Does that matter? No. The gesture is what matters, not going through some long, drawn out b.s. process to make sure that Athens doesn't have to, God forbid, pay out a few dollars/dongs/yen/whatever they didn't owe. What's more, by putting the money out there now, it shuts up the Jonathan Brookbanks of the world and others who will bring up the matter of the reparations again and again and further embarrass Athens.

But hey, if you honestly don't care about Athens as much as you (STA) are letting on, that's fine. Make sure they hold out that cash until every possible bureaucratic obligation has been met.