Rafael Nadal Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 [ooc?]Actually, people do. They join alliances to avoid wars, and more specifically, tech raids. Please go find one of the posts from a n00b on the general section of the OWF who is complaining about being tech raided. What is the most common response? "It's because you're none, if you join an alliance you will be protected from tech raids." And then it goes on with recruitment efforts until one of the admins either closes the thread or it dies because the guy joined an alliance. To avoid further tech raids. Your "world view" pretty much dismantles that.[ooc]edit: this whole topic blurs the lines between IC/OOC too much to risk it Alliances protect you from tech raids because they will (should) retaliate against your attacker. Just assuming an AA doesn't put a shield to all possible avenues of damage. And yes, being in an alliance offers much more protection against raiders than being on None, still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 NPO has a policy of not tech raiding alliances with 40 members. Apparently, so did Athens until quite recently. By "your wars", I assume you're not talking about tech raids?Where we seem to differ is in our characterization of this action. You think it's a tech raid, I think it's a full war. I am merely arguing for the proposition that full wars should require a formal declaration, based on simple decency and respect. I do not dispute the primary contention that alliances have the right to declare war on one another. Your argument is that what Athens is doing is a full war, like the kind you guys have had where aircraft, CMs, etc are used. However it's a tech raid which only composed of ground attacks, not to mention that peace would be achieved immediately. could say the same for NPO and company in WotC. Yeah, sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 This is probably a good announcement. Not raiding alliances makes sense, though not raiding in general makes more sense to me.I just don't get how people enjoy the war aspect of this game. I mean the first time was alright when you had no clue what you're doing, but after this long it's just some basic calculations. The social aspect of war I get, talking to your enemies, coordinating with your alliance mates, putting your political position on the line etc. Techraiding to me is just pressing buttons and maybe taking some damage, in the end it doesn't really change much except gaining a bit of tech. It's much more efficient to just buy tech. To each their own though, live and let live. It is the lead up to war that makes it so fun, at least that is my opinion. The war itself should just be the climax of the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgrum Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Ah, the tail is between the legs now. I dont know about you but this was the expected outcome, at least from my observation. I mean did you or anyone else think they would back up thier choice to attack/tech raid with resolve and conviction in the face of pressure from others? Totally expected outcome, nice spin by londo though great post but backing down is backing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banned Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) I for one, am glad to see the decision made by Athenian government in this case to seek peace and open talks of reparations to the Knights of Ni to pave the way for peace and prosperity. It is sad to see the actions that have led to this, but looking back is a poor direction to take. I would like to look onward to better days of peace and prosperity globally. Thanks for stating my point. They think their tough and are messing with smaller and weaker alliances, who likely don't have allies, or weak allies. Does anyone know if Ni has any allies? KofN has no allies. Edited November 14, 2009 by Banned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gork Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 "You expected them to lay down while you destroy their nations."What else do you think a tech raid is? Anything but that since, when presented with the option of ending the war or fighting back, not peacing out and laying down arms doesn't make sense at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 So this is, "we're not sorry and we don't think we were wrong, but we're going to stop anyway because we don't want to look any worse"?I'm glad to see this indefensible action coming to an end, but this is about the worst way you could have done it. It's really not indefensible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 paradigm. /me takes a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellAngel Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 I welcome your sudden change of opinion. Could the CnG crowd now stop justifying it? That would be grand. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcturus Jefferson Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 It's really not indefensible. Apparently Athens disagrees with you since they knuckled under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Red Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 I for one welcome Athens to the dark side. Their level of 'evil' is impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRA KING Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 TL/DR: We got stuck with our hands in the cookie jar.It pleases me that someone with the political capital to put the screws to Athens got to them. Hopefully they learned something. There's nothing honorable about a tech raid. It's the moral equivalent of punching a man in the face and stealing his wallet. Noooo Tech raids are the same as taking someones watch because their not looking after it properly it is not stealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Apparently Athens disagrees with you since they knuckled under. They're just tired of arguing, the weaklings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahlanRahl Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) Alliances protect you from tech raids because they will (should) retaliate against your attacker. Just assuming an AA doesn't put a shield to all possible avenues of damage. And yes, being in an alliance offers much more protection against raiders than being on None, still. But this is more than just a one man alliance. This is an organized alliance with multiple members. What I'm saying is that Athens' argument that their "world view" that this type of conflict is a good thing is contradicting the purpose of joining an alliance (or one of the purposes). This is one avenue of damage that is usually bypassed when you don the AA of a relatively stable and legitimate alliance. edit: tense fail. Edited November 14, 2009 by KahlanRahl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoiL Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Tech raid say..AlmightyGrub..and see how far this 'It wasn't a full war!' argument goes. Tech raid = declaring war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Noooo Tech raids are the same as taking someones watch because their not looking after it properly it is not stealing. Considering your alliance, I can't tell if your trying to defend Athens or condemn them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Nadal Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 I welcome your sudden change of opinion. Could the CnG crowd now stop justifying it? That would be grand. Thanks again. I don't think you'll find the majority of us defending the action so much as defending the action from embellished, inane, false, etc accusations and bad comparisons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Scream Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Anything but that since, when presented with the option of ending the war or fighting back, not peacing out and laying down arms doesn't make sense at all. Peacing out and laying down arms after you were wrongfully attacked is cowardice. By suggesting that your opponent will do that, you call him a coward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakamitai Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 I hope all the sanctioned alliances stop recognizing people under 200 members (Athens), and start attacking them! And now that would truly be interesting. Speaking as a member of a sanctioned alliance, I sincerely hope Athens doesn't get rolled for this, seeing that we are a protectorate of theirs. Your argument is that what Athens is doing is a full war, like the kind you guys have had where aircraft, CMs, etc are used. However it's a tech raid which only composed of ground attacks, not to mention that peace would be achieved immediately. Very well, I assume you would approve if an alliance much larger than MK suddenly attacked everyone in MK with only ground attacks and "tech raid, pm for peace"? Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Very well, I assume you would approve if an alliance much larger than MK suddenly attacked everyone in MK with only ground attacks and "tech raid, pm for peace"? Interesting. Yeah I would approve, it's their right. As is our right to kick the !@#$ out of them by being properly prepared with our own firepower and our ally's like any alliance should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) The pen keyboard truly is mightier than the sword. Well, this is nice. Still reading what is being written about us, but I must correct you here. We (the Knights of Ni!) actually have a treaty with M*A*S*H. It's very old and maybe long forgotten, but it never got cancelled. Be aware that we haven't notified M*A*S*H yet. I don't mean to blow this thing up bigger than it is right now. We invite the Knights of Ni! to discuss this issue with us government to government if they would seek redress for our actions. Three line post V Athens: Three line post wins in 38 mins, congrats KoN Edited November 14, 2009 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperion321 Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Tech raid say..AlmightyGrub..and see how far this 'It wasn't a full war!' argument goes.Tech raid = declaring war. my finger slipped http://www.cybernations.net/nation_war_inf...Nation_ID=15618 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindom of Goon Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Essemtially what you're saying is you were bored and decided to declare on an alliance. Ni should be thankful that you're not destroying them and the rest of the world should thank you for making our likes more enjoyable, because we've all been eager to see some 'honorable' tech raiding action. I love the irony of you thinking war should not be demonised becuase its fun, yet are backing down from your beliefs because it could lead to war... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Rune Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 KofN has no allies. They said they have an old treaty with MASH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoiL Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Yeah I would approve, it's their right. As is our right to kick the !@#$ out of them by being properly prepared with our own firepower and our ally's like any alliance should be. And it is the right of everybody else to condemn the attacks...not according to the OP though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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