Ryan Greenberg Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) Thank you for pointing out, Londo, that all of NPO's so-called "wars of oppression" were the moral equivalents of tech raiding. We look forward to further announcements from Athens along these lines.Edit: minor correction I wouldn't call NPO's wars "moral equivalents of tech raiding". If you want to think that, go ahead, but your opinion is wrong. I know this reply was off topic, but I needed to reply to that dumb comment. Back to the topic, I hope this situation is solved between Athens and the Kinights of Ni!. Don't want this thing getting more complicated. Good luck in negotiations. Edited November 14, 2009 by Ryan Greenberg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Londo, you attacked 39 defenseless nations in an attempt to steal what is not yours and crumble their alliance. You expected them to lay down while you destroy their nations.You pressed the "declare war" button. That's called declaring war. You declared war without a reason, other than your amusement. I await the death of Athens. It will come, eventually. They did something for amusement. The world is surely ending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medtech Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Londo, you attacked 39 defenseless nations in an attempt to steal what is not yours and crumble their alliance. You expected them to lay down while you destroy their nations.You pressed the "declare war" button. That's called declaring war. You declared war without a reason, other than your amusement. I await the death of Athens. It will come, eventually. AAAhhh we wub you tooo Oh and did I miss something? Was Athens the only one who declared on these people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakamitai Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Er, no. He said that raiding different alliances is the same. Not extorting, disbanding, and generally destroying.I'm not saying NPO is the work of the devil, but you aren't simple tech raiders either. No, we generally have the decency to actually declare war on alliances we attack. Perhaps we should just announce "TECH RAID LOLOLOL" next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gork Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Londo, you attacked 39 defenseless nations in an attempt to steal what is not yours and crumble their alliance. You expected them to lay down while you destroy their nations.You pressed the "declare war" button. That's called declaring war. You declared war without a reason, other than your amusement. I await the death of Athens. It will come, eventually. Londo did not state this at all in his announcement. The raiders executed a couple of ground attacks each and sent peace offers, awaiting for a response from the Knights of Ni! They explicitly provide the option of ceasing the conflict immediately or continuing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Nadal Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 No, we generally have the decency to actually declare war on alliances we attack. Perhaps we should just announce "TECH RAID LOLOLOL" next time. No, it's not that easy. You would also need to change how you conduct your wars, not just the initial announcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reccesion Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Go tech raid someone your size, then talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Scream Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Londo did not state this at all in his announcement. The raiders executed a couple of ground attacks each and sent peace offers, awaiting for a response from the Knights of Ni! They explicitly provide the option of ceasing the conflict immediately or continuing it. "You expected them to lay down while you destroy their nations." What else do you think a tech raid is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenderek Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 <Tick1|FoB> You act like we wouldn't pay reps to the nations who ask <Tick1|FoB> you act like we would bombard them if the GA back <Nintenderek> Tick1|FoB, if you would really pay reps to the nations you attacked <Tick1|FoB> I have before I would like to request that someone from Athens or Federation of Buccaneers send every sing person who was raided a message telling them that if they ask for reps, they can have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Xander the Only Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 This is pathetic. Anyway, good luck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoiL Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 I don't get it, beyond Athens trying to save a little face in their concession. You're saying there ought not be an outcry against wars because wars are fun?? The outcry against the reason for war is part of war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennox Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Ah, the tail is between the legs now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahlanRahl Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) Okay, here's my problem with this statement. People join alliances for protection. That is the number 1 reason that new people join alliances. So that they don't get raided. Then what happens? You go and raid this alliance. You can't just go raiding alliances, no matter how big they are. It defies the original point of having alliances in the first place. Sure, it's one thing if there's a reason for that war. People who screw up should be punished. But as far as I can tell, there was no reason for this war other than a tech raid. If you really needed to raid tech, you should have done it to people who weren't part of alliances. And yet, most people don't join alliances to hide from wars - or everyone would be in TDO or GPA. But nearly all wars are vicious curbstomps that cause nation rulers to depart this world. Does it not then follow, that most people want wars, but not ones that are so vicious as to utterly destroy them? Are we really going to keep it up with the curbstomps, year after year after year? [ooc?]Actually, people do. They join alliances to avoid wars, and more specifically, tech raids. Please go find one of the posts from a n00b on the general section of the OWF who is complaining about being tech raided. What is the most common response? "It's because you're none, if you join an alliance you will be protected from tech raids." And then it goes on with recruitment efforts until one of the admins either closes the thread or it dies because the guy joined an alliance. To avoid further tech raids. Your "world view" pretty much dismantles that.[ooc] edit: this whole topic blurs the lines between IC/OOC too much to risk it Edited November 14, 2009 by KahlanRahl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Nadal Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Go tech raid someone your size, then talk. They do, obviously, as it's built into the mechanics of the game. If you're talking, alliance member size, then that's going to be a bit tougher, seeing as most alliances Athens' size have an extensive array of treaties. Obviously, Athens' wish is not to start a huge global conflict, otherwise they would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan King Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 TL/DR: We got stuck with our hands in the cookie jar. It pleases me that someone with the political capital to put the screws to Athens got to them. Hopefully they learned something. There's nothing honorable about a tech raid. It's the moral equivalent of punching a man in the face and stealing his wallet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakamitai Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 No, it's not that easy. You would also need to change how you conduct your wars, not just the initial announcement. NPO has a policy of not tech raiding alliances with 40 members. Apparently, so did Athens until quite recently. By "your wars", I assume you're not talking about tech raids? Where we seem to differ is in our characterization of this action. You think it's a tech raid, I think it's a full war. I am merely arguing for the proposition that full wars should require a formal declaration, based on simple decency and respect. I do not dispute the primary contention that alliances have the right to declare war on one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylar Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 (edited) They did something for amusement.The world is surely ending. could say the same for NPO and company in WotC. also don't agree with what they did but just saying Edited November 14, 2009 by Sylar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Finally, an announcement by Londo. At least we know your reasoning now, thanks for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasin Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 This is probably a good announcement. Not raiding alliances makes sense, though not raiding in general makes more sense to me. I just don't get how people enjoy the war aspect of this game. I mean the first time was alright when you had no clue what you're doing, but after this long it's just some basic calculations. The social aspect of war I get, talking to your enemies, coordinating with your alliance mates, putting your political position on the line etc. Techraiding to me is just pressing buttons and maybe taking some damage, in the end it doesn't really change much except gaining a bit of tech. It's much more efficient to just buy tech. To each their own though, live and let live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canik Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 I hope all the sanctioned alliances stop recognizing people under 200 members (Athens), and start attacking them! And now that would truly be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reccesion Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 They do, obviously, as it's built into the mechanics of the game. If you're talking, alliance member size, then that's going to be a bit tougher, seeing as most alliances Athens' size have an extensive array of treaties. Obviously, Athens' wish is not to start a huge global conflict, otherwise they would. Thanks for stating my point. They think their tough and are messing with smaller and weaker alliances, who likely don't have allies, or weak allies. Does anyone know if Ni has any allies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 NPO has a policy of not tech raiding alliances with 40 members. You have a policy of curbstomping alliances, even people who have just joined our world (Jarheads.). Are you really feeling better? Because you shouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernkastel Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 If you're talking, alliance member size, then that's going to be a bit tougher, seeing as most alliances Athens' size have an extensive array of treaties. There's always GPA or TDO. Sure a tad bigger, but not much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzelger Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 So this is, "we're not sorry and we don't think we were wrong, but we're going to stop anyway because we don't want to look any worse"? I'm glad to see this indefensible action coming to an end, but this is about the worst way you could have done it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Uruk Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Are you going to try and defeat my argument or try to insult me? There wasn't an argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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