Qaianna Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) There are no such camps these days.I'm making quite a legitimate point. Sorry if it offends you that it has to do with your alliance, however that does not affect the legitimacy of my point. Considering your point was that I was unable to comprehend something due to my past..I'd say your point holds very little water. Just because I was in a One Vision alliance doesn't mean I haven't taken my share of abuse. Be very careful about how you define people. They may have actual past histories you don't know about. Edited September 8, 2009 by Qaianna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Destruction Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 There are no such camps these days. You're a fool if you believe that, especially with what has been said in this very thread. If you've not noticed, people are, and have been for a very long time now, oppressing the Order. Even while it was the strongest alliance both politically and statistically, people oppressed it. People blatantly treat Pacificans as if their opinion means nothing if the Pacifican agrees with other Pacificans, and then if a Pacifican says something that is "opposite" of what other Pacificans say, people go ahead and give them grief over why that Pacifican is even in the Order, and they try and pull them away from Pacifica. If you honestly think there's no oppression going on here on Bob, you're both blind, and deaf. People will always be oppressed. That's human nature - to dominate over others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shimmer Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 If hypocrisy was a crime half of this thread would be in jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qazzian Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 If hypocrisy was a crime half of this thread would be in jail. Only if the other half is in the gallows :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cortath Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 If you honestly think there's no oppression going on here on Bob, you're both blind, and deaf. People will always be oppressed. That's human nature - to dominate over others. LoD, we call it something entirely different when one can see with open eyes and piercing insight one thing, but are blind to likeness in another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gn0xious Jr Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) Be very careful about how you define people. They may have actual past histories you don't know about. I'm not going to try to define you, but I am curious if you have had any of the following experiences in your past (specifically where these have been enacted upon YOU, not the other way around): Alliance threatened to disband or face un-ending war Alliance threatened to expel specific members or face war Alliance forced to disband as part of surrender terms Alliance attacked with non-valid CB, curb-stomped, then forced to send reps to the "victor" Alliance forced to accept a viceroy for duration of surrender terms, or longer again, just curious about your past, and the abuse you've taken as a member of a One Vision alliance. Edited September 8, 2009 by Gn0xious Jr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) I do believe you are confusing me with someone else. Very badly. My point is Vox were actual freedom fighters whereas you are just some guy who band wagoned one war and entered another for an ally. You now proclaim your defense of freedom when you did almost nothing in defense of freedom until you were obliged to act followed by band wagoning another war, your noble reason? they happened to be on the opposite side of what had become a global war. Had your allies attacked someone from Karma you would have declared on them in defense of your ally and other Karma members simply because thats the way your ally rolled. No, I'm not confused at all, that is you. Some guy rewriting his history to grab some of the crumbs from the giants who were real defenders of freedom or freedom fighters. Defender of freedom? Dont make me laugh! At best a good ally and at worst a glorified tech raider and defender of freedom by chance, after the fact. Edited September 8, 2009 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 If it is the fact that I used Citadel and SF as my examples, it is that they are the most widely looked upon as being at the top and at opposing ends of the spectrum. That was not why I was intrigued, no. I just found the guess at what I was saying to be somewhat indicative. I'll leave it at that and continue to be mysterious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Wallace Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Personally, I'm kind of hoping NPO makes it back and seeks revenge. I also hope their entire alliance gets to participate. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Personally, I'm kind of hoping NPO makes it back and seeks revenge. I also hope their entire alliance gets to participate. B) Being predictable is never truly entertaining though, you must admit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) Do I need to lend you a tinfoil hat? I used to be a Voxian myself, I despised the New Pacific Order and fought against them with all I had. Then I actually spoke to them for the first time, during the Karma War, and came to realise that they really weren't heartless monsters. Like all alliances, we have good and bad people, but seriously while we were #1 we didn't act any differently to how anyone else would, except perhaps that we [OOC] play this game [/OOC] better than many other people. There were more differences than this. Taking actions to the detriment of the world for fun, etc. Oh, shock! Oh, horror! We're actually growing again, because *nobody* ever expected that!! Perhaps Karma actually considered that eventuality? Perhaps they gave us terms anyway, because of the mounting international pressures? Uh, what? Karma gave NPO peace because the alliances fighting them decided to give them peace. In case you aren't aware, the Karma war was pretty massive. Apart from Karma alliances and Hegemony alliances there really wasn't much strength out there. By the time Karma decided to give NPO peace the Hegemony forces had been decimated. So who exactly was it pressuring Karma into giving them peace? If Francoism merely changed to suit Vladimir and the New Pacific Order, you'd expect it to have hundreds, perhaps thousands, of flaws and contradictions. I dare you to name one. Have you even read Vladimir's works on Francoism? Either they work damn fast on NPO members these days or you were with NPO for a much longer time than you are willing to admit. In other news, they tried, we survived, get over it. No, actually we didn't try to kill you off, please quit spinning this to anything other than beating you down and giving you peace. If Karma wanted you dead they wouldn't have given you peace so soon. Getting another faction into the mix can only promise for more drama and wars. I agree, so long as they don't do the permanent viceroys and wars, and don't PZI/EZI players. If they don't go to the extremes again I have no problem having them as a competing fore. Edited September 8, 2009 by Penkala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lusitan Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Uh, what? Karma gave NPO peace because the alliances fighting them decided to give them peace. In case you aren't aware, the Karma war was pretty massive. Apart from Karma alliances and Hegemony alliances there really wasn't much strength out there. By the time Karma decided to give NPO peace the Hegemony forces had been decimated. So who exactly was it pressuring Karma into giving them peace? Well, I did notice Ragnarok falling through the ranks at some point more regularly than NPO did. While I have no idea if it had any real influence, I'd certainly count the weakening of the alliances sieging NPO as a pressure to drop the siege and negotiate peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Well, I did notice Ragnarok falling through the ranks at some point more regularly than NPO did. While I have no idea if it had any real influence, I'd certainly count the weakening of the alliances sieging NPO as a pressure to drop the siege and negotiate peace. The more logical alternative, if we wanted the war to continue, would have been to pour aid into those fighting NPO and any drops in NS would stop. NPO hardly forced peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 The more logical alternative, if we wanted the war to continue, would have been to pour aid into those fighting NPO and any drops in NS would stop. NPO hardly forced peace. Never discount the iron will of your opponent as well as the boredom and failing morale of the aggressors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 The aggressors were the NPO. But yeah, Karma as a whole never wanted to kill NPO, and those individuals who did were never numerous or in positions of power. NPO regaining some strength isn't something that was unexpected or undesired once they had lost the ring of allies that made up the hegemony, and it doesn't need a stupid 'warning' or a call to arms unless you're still stuck in the old world of fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 (edited) Never discount the iron will of your opponent as well as the boredom and failing morale of the aggressors. I feel this is precisely why NPO lost some 500 members. Your leadership discounted the iron will of your opponent and your at-first high morale failed when your aggression wounded up getting you rolled. Edit: Bob Janova, honestly, many members of the NPO will always believe they were the victims of aggression, no matter the fact that there was no war until the New Pacific Order declared it. Edited September 9, 2009 by Penkala Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 It always takes two wars to totally destroy a major foe. It took two major victories for CoaLUEtion/League to disappear as a political force. The UJP is an exception because the controversy surrounding the end of that war caused the dissolution of the UJP, not the damage of the war itself. A Second Karma War will come. Mark my words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingzog Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 It always takes two wars to totally destroy a major foe. It took two major victories for CoaLUEtion/League to disappear as a political force. The UJP is an exception because the controversy surrounding the end of that war caused the dissolution of the UJP, not the damage of the war itself. A Second Karma War will come. Mark my words. Unless something changes, then yes....I do believe you are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 I feel this is precisely why NPO lost some 500 members. Please verify that number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Destruction Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Please verify that number. I agree... the Order currently has around 300 less than when they started this war. That's a tad more than half way to 500, but still not close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Ozujsko Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Why does anyone let Francesca have the mic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Destruction Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Why does anyone let Francesca have the mic? There's this fancy thing called freedom of speech. I know it may seem odd that Pacificans have it... but anyone is allowed to speak their mind. Really, they're allowed to if they want to. It just may get them in trouble sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 There's this fancy thing called freedom of speech. I know it may seem odd that Pacificans have it... but anyone is allowed to speak their mind. Really, they're allowed to if they want to. It just may get them in trouble sometimes Shhhhhh... Pacificans have no rights. We're all extensions of Emperor Revenge's will. Stop telling people otherwise. You're totally ruining things for us here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Destruction Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 Shhhhhh... Pacificans have no rights. We're all extensions of Emperor Revenge's will. Stop telling people otherwise. You're totally ruining things for us here. My bad, I just tell the truth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Autumn Posted September 9, 2009 Report Share Posted September 9, 2009 My bad, I just tell the truth Well, stop it. Leave us drones to our peace, curse you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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