Crimson Guard Edict #5: Ultimatum to Internet Superheroes

[Ryan Greenberg]

Oh the drama!

IS in its usual attention seeking ways, hitting newer lows... Should we anticipate something new for tomorrow?!

I anticipate another pink war somehow....

[Sgt Alvin C York]

I'd just like to point out that people get tech raided everyday.

If only they knew that if they whined about it on the forums, and then made threats about bringing in "friends" it could all stop...

Oh, so people get tech raided every day? I didn't know. Well in that case it must be right.

And I don't disagree that it's is almost always ineffective to bring concerns about being tech raided onto the forums, because nobody is willing to help some random nation who has been "legitimately" attacked by a large alliance. But in my opinion, the OWF could at least refrain from verbally assaulting the tech raid victim for "whining" - but I know that won't happen, at least not in the near future. And finally, in this case we're seeing and entire alliance ordered to attack another for no reason at all. Clearly IS is an extremely aggressive alliance with no regard for anyone else - the kind of alliance we were all used to in the days of the global hegemony, and the kind of alliance that (at least I hope) has no place here in this post-Karma world.

Gotta go, my friends are all jumping off a cliff and I feel compelled to join them.

[Gn0xious Jr]

I can't knock a micro-alliance who knows HOW to communicate with this "international community" actually trying to communicate for a chance to seek assistance. Many small alliances start up, have NO IDEA what the bigger essence of Planet Bob is, and thus, take their beatings lying down, always struggling to even get a leg up in this world, and end up disbanding and moving on to larger alliances. I don't consider this OP bawwing, but using whatever means are necessary to speak their opinion and their request for a peaceful resolution, while, hoping to gain support should a peaceful solution not be reached.

does each alliance have the sovereign right to attack anyone for any reason? YES, however, not posting an official DoW and only attacking for lulz will not gain any PR points.

does each alliance have the sovereign right to tech raid? YES, however, going outside the "norm" of 2 Ground Attacks, then Peace Out, will turn some heads.

Just as everyone has a right to voice their support, as does everyone who wishes to voice their disagreements.

edit: ^ which WILL happen when you bring things to the "international community"

Edited August 20, 2009 by Gn0xious Jr

[Jipps]

Actually, it makes those who still find it necessary to come here and baw about the legitimacy or illegitimacy of cbs look like a bunch of whiny pansies.

Those folks already did.

The fact that people are pointing at NSO to jump in to this fight while at the same time condemning this fight actually gives Moldavi's words credence. It just seems others are afraid to act upon their convictions. I havn't seen any NSO statements about this situation at all so I don't see why people are pointing to them publically and saying NSO should be involved.

I understand why you may not like the idea of the Unknown this adds to any equation put forth before starting a war and that you are going to make statements like the one above to try and undermine any such efforts but since when does making an announcement make you the world police? They simply stated what they believe in and what they believe all alliances have the right to do. So now you are saying that alliances cannot state their beliefs to others anymore?

That sounds to me like heavier policing then the Moldavi Doctrine.

The unknown factor was always there, you continue to treat the doctrine as if it is somehow creating a new idea. When in fact, the idea is as old as alliances themselves.

You just stated in your previous post that NSO created the doctrine to show us that we have a right to get involved in any war. NSO has every right to say that they have the right, even if that is extremely redundant. However when the NSO takes the responsibility to "show alliances that they have this right" you can see why people would mistake them for trying to act a s a world police. Unless of course you'd like to retract your previous statement.

So what? They can do whatever they want. Are they not a sovereign entity?

Any alliance can declare on any other alliance for no reason at all and without any CB or treaty ties. Will they have to face the consequences? Yes, but they can still do it. (Look at what IS is doing right now)

OOC: Jeez NSO,people must really hate your guts for you to get dragged into every thread

They can do whatever they want, no matter how redundant or incredibly useless the announcement is. However I was reacting to HeinousOne's statement that the doctrine was used to show the rest of alliances that we have the right. To which I replied why does NSO feel they have the to take upon the responsibility of showing us a right that we already acknowledge.

I await the next NSO doctrine that tells us that we do in fact have the right to go to whatever color we wish. Bold right?

[Emperor Brutus]

I find it interesting how CG is trying to find help in the eyes of NSO. If this was a tech raid all you would have to do is send peace to the nations involved in the raid, and there... problem solved. CG just wants to get into the political game, and try to "become" someone they will never be... Better luck next time?

[Elendil old]

LOL this does not concern ANY of us. All this concerns is CG, IS, Rebel Virginia, and IS treaty partners. You forget that YOU in essence have no treaties to speak of and so none of us are involved

Oh but it does concern me. When you bring something to the international community it concerns everyone and though its hard to believe, I am a member of the international community. One who is not willing to take your crying. And since I don't think you understood what i meant by friends I will clarify for you. Those who actually hold a military treaty with your alliance, which as Francesca pointed out is just Rebel Virginia.

Thank you!

Quit contradicting yourself every chance you get, thanks.

[MiasmaCircle]

I really fail to see why this thread has to turn into a thread about NSO.

Don't get me wrong, gotta love the attention, but I think people are flirting with the line between interest and obsession.

[Portugal]

I find it interesting how CG is trying to find help in the eyes of NSO. If this was a tech raid all you would have to do is send peace to the nations involved in the raid, and there... problem solved. CG just wants to get into the political game, and try to "become" someone they will never be... Better luck next time?

You do realize no CG member requested NSO assistance in this thread so far, right?

[Poobah]

You do realize no CG member requested NSO assistance in this thread so far, right?

Stop with your logic.

[Aeternos Astramora]

You are dangerously close to walking the line of telling NSO that they are now responsible for policing all matters due to the Moldavi Doctrine. The Moldavi Doctrine is about showing that every alliance has that right and that they are not afraid to employ that right when They feel it necessary. You are seemingly trying to twist that into a Doctrine that makes NSO jump into any conflict whenever such comes into public discussion. If you are so inflamed about the situation then talk with your alliance and YOU do something about it instead of pointing at NSO and telling them to do something about it.

That is pretty weak.

You must purposely take everything half-way (or less) related to your alliance in the worst possible way. There is no other excuse for you being so belligerent at all times.

I am not dangerously close to telling NSO they are now world police. I picked my words carefully. I'm not twisting anything. I'm reading the doctrine for what it is. It is generally understood that you don't jump into war that you are not tied to with treaties. NSO has done away with that. NSO likes war. NSO doesn't like pink. NSO declared war on RAD, a pink alliance and a member of PWN, for a war that RAD tried to explain was a tech raid despite excessive attacks. IS, a pink alliance and a member of PWN, attacks an alliance and says it's a tech raid despite excessive attacks. Additionally, Article 5 of the Moldavi Doctrine states, "The New Sith Order recognizes the need for such acts to be just and therefore will only invoke the Doctrine if the determined point of interjection has been attacked unjustly or the likewise determined point of support has established a just casus belli."

So please, stop trying to twist what everybody says into some insult to you or your alliance or bloc. I merely stated that I wanted IS to get a beatdown, so it will most likely be from The Coalition, since they supposedly just signed a protectorate with CG, or NSO, since they have plenty of reasons to do so and aren't bound by (non-)treaty obligations.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Aeternos Astramora

[KahlanRahl]

Since when does an alliance need friends to honorably defend themselves? Granted it would be useful and would prolly help their situation given that CG is smaller, but if you don't have allies, you should just roll over and take it? That seems a little silly to me, and it seems to be a recurring theme in this thread. Especially when it appears to be "for teh lulz".

Also... who cares? They're both small. Let them hash it out.

[Libera]

Crimson Guard Announcement

I'm going to break my sacred ethic regarding logs and leave names on these, but I think perhaps this is unavoidable.

Originally, I was shown records of the conversations that took place in #CN-CG in my absence, which claimed that IS were doing this as some sort of large-scale tech raid. The thing is, tech raids do not include strategies like cruise missiles, bombing strikes, or spying away nukes, all of which were employed on us. When I asked IS government about this, they made it clear that this was not about tech.

Session Start: Thu Aug 20 23:36:49 2009

Session Ident: Sakura

01[23:36] <Francesca> Hello.

01[23:36] <Francesca> Do you have a moment?

[23:37] <Sakura> Possibly.

01[23:37] <Francesca[CG]> In your co-ordinated attacks on Crimson Guard, cruise missile attacks and bomber strikes were used, as well as spy attacks on our nukes.

01[23:38] <Francesca[CG]> IS stated that this was a co-ordinated tech raid..... the above strategies are not employed in tech raids.

01[23:38] <Francesca[CG]> Could you please clarify, then, why they were used?

[23:38] <Sakura> You've never seen me tech raid, have you?

01[23:38] <Francesca[CG]> I've not paid much attention to you or your alliance before.

01[23:39] <Francesca[CG]> But cruise missile and bomber strikes do not gain you tech.

01[23:39] <Francesca[CG]> And are not used in raids.

[23:39] <Sakura> Bombers and CMs *do* take out tanks, and cause shrinkage in nations with larger populations.

01[23:39] <Francesca[CG]> Irrelevant.

01[23:40] <Francesca[CG]> They are not used for the purposes of gaining tech, which is the idea behind a tech raid.

[23:40] <Sakura> Do you think I did this for tech?

01[23:41] <Francesca[CG]> So you concede that this was not a tech raid. Thank you, that's all I need.

It didn't take long to discover what was really going on.

[09:46] <Olaf_Eriksson[CG]> What's the deal with the war anyway?

[09:46] <Hurricane[iS]> Well, King Xander told me to attack

[09:46] <Hurricane[iS]> so

[09:46] <Hurricane[iS]> I did, along with everyone else in IS

[09:46] <Olaf_Eriksson[CG]> On what grounds?

<@Olaf_Eriksson[CG]> [09:48] <Hurricane[iS]> Ask Francesca

Olaf asked me, then told Hurricane that I didn't know what Hurricane was referring to. Hurricane's response:

[10:07] <Hurricane[iS]> Well

[10:07] <Hurricane[iS]> it was probably done "for the lulz" then

[10:07] <Hurricane[iS]> I have no idea

[10:07] <Hurricane[iS]> don't ask me :/

[10:07] <Hurricane[iS]> not in gov

So essentially, they attacked my alliance, without a Declaration of War, or a suitable Casus Belli, for !@#$s and giggles.

They then proceeded to offer us peace, so that they could walk off with our tech, while we licked our wounds. Well, I'm sorry, but I simply don't operate like that. If you attack me or any member of my alliance, you can bet you'll face consequences. You won't just walk away from this.

Hurricane's convo is insignificant. He told you he wasn't gov't and thus wasn't privledged to the information you were seeking.

You are the person who also ended the conversation with Sakura.

Also, out of sheer curiosity how does an admitted spy have ethics regarding logs in general?

Edited August 20, 2009 by Libera

[RandomInterrupt]

I've been saying that IS is a crap alliance for a while now, and this just adds to it. Only fools ignore history. I would recommend that whatever idiot is in charge of IS takes a nice look at where alliances that act like this are right now. \m/ is dead, GOONS is dead, the NPO just got its teeth kicked in. So I guess if that's what IS wants as well, they can keep doing what they are. I sure wont shed any tears.

That said, CG should have taken steps to protect themselves. As far as I can tell, they just assumed that no one would attack them, which is a pretty ignorant take. This is why you have allies, basically. And I mean real allies, not this secret hinted at "friends".

Not a law, just sort of a tradition and accepted norm. Just like it's an accepted norm that tech raids are to be carried out without unnecessary damage. Some norms should be done away with, but I don't see any reason for either of these to change.

No one owes you anything. If someone wants to declare war without posting anything here, they certainly can.

Why are people complaining that 2 rubbish alliances are blowing holes in eachother?

Not much else going on really. Perhaps they will blow each other to bits though. That'd be fun.

[Kryievla]

DAMN I have to agree with this guy. The world has now come to an end

Honestly perhaps IS should be educated in the manor they feel is proper as they attempted to do to CAN. While two wrongs dont make a right it would be LULZY. So they have put there hand in the fire, now its time for them to get burned. I wonder if the Lesson would sink in.

Good luck CG and yes its simply because I dont like IS and want to see them burn if i could figure a way in to this war personally I would be there in a heartbeat to show IS how a tech raid is really perfomed. Sorry Locke but this is my stance and not Valhallas on this .

eep, hivemind!

I could not agree with you more, bud; nicely put. Not official Valhalla stance, but certainly mine as well.

[SiCkO]

cant wait until IS pulls this on someone who will hit back

[Frankdolf]

Go IS!

[astronaut jones]

Since signatories of the bus doctrine feel it is alright to raid using a different set of standards than what is laid out in the doctrine, I no longer feel that pink nations should be afforded any sort of respect.

If I raid pink nations, I will be sure to use bombers, cruise missiles, and any other form of aggression I have at my disposal, up to and including nukes, spying, extortion, and anything else I can dream up.

What IS did here is reprehensible, and I feel I was in the wrong for initially supporting pink sphere alliances, including poison clan, if this is the type of company they are choosing to keep.

[HeinousOne]

Those folks already did.

The unknown factor was always there, you continue to treat the doctrine as if it is somehow creating a new idea. When in fact, the idea is as old as alliances themselves.

You just stated in your previous post that NSO created the doctrine to show us that we have a right to get involved in any war. NSO has every right to say that they have the right, even if that is extremely redundant. However when the NSO takes the responsibility to "show alliances that they have this right" you can see why people would mistake them for trying to act a s a world police. Unless of course you'd like to retract your previous statement.

I await the next NSO doctrine that tells us that we do in fact have the right to go to whatever color we wish. Bold right?

No my statement about NSO's doctrine is my opinion of it that it shows they will enact that right of theirs whenever they like. That is a physical manifestation of that right that all alliances have thus indirectly it shows us that all alliances have that right. You seem to have a major issue with that or with NSO themselves so you are trying to twist that into NSO policing the world. By the fact that they havn't jumped at the chance to strike at IS despite a large public outcry against IS just goes to show it is not about them Policing the world it is about them making their own sovereign decisions despite what the world may think of that.

You are indeed correct that people might mistake that as an act of being world police but the key word is mistake. Why would I retract my previous statement when you have just admitted that such an assumption is a mistake?

Also why are you continuing to slander NSO in this thread about CG and IS when we havnt seen any NSO response to this? You are creating all that you talk about for your own purposes Jipps. Only question is why?

You must purposely take everything half-way (or less) related to your alliance in the worst possible way. There is no other excuse for you being so belligerent at all times.

I am not dangerously close to telling NSO they are now world police. I picked my words carefully. I'm not twisting anything. I'm reading the doctrine for what it is. It is generally understood that you don't jump into war that you are not tied to with treaties. NSO has done away with that. NSO likes war. NSO doesn't like pink. NSO declared war on RAD, a pink alliance and a member of PWN, for a war that RAD tried to explain was a tech raid despite excessive attacks. IS, a pink alliance and a member of PWN, attacks an alliance and says it's a tech raid despite excessive attacks. Additionally, Article 5 of the Moldavi Doctrine states, "The New Sith Order recognizes the need for such acts to be just and therefore will only invoke the Doctrine if the determined point of interjection has been attacked unjustly or the likewise determined point of support has established a just casus belli."

So please, stop trying to twist what everybody says into some insult to you or your alliance or bloc. I merely stated that I wanted IS to get a beatdown, so it will most likely be from The Coalition, since they supposedly just signed a protectorate with CG, or NSO, since they have plenty of reasons to do so and aren't bound by (non-)treaty obligations.

No, I am simply pointing out that you should stop pointing to NSO to jump into any situation you deem fit for them to jump into. If that is belligerent then ask yourself if you should be making such statements.

So you are saying NSO goes to war simply because they do not like someone? I think they would have gone to war with IS and RAD well before RAD attacked them if that was the case. Also, NSO just got done with a war. It may have been a small one but I dont see why they need to be in a constant state of war over these issues which would indeed turn them into a world police which I doubt they want to be. You just pointed out a lot of reasons why you think IS should be hit, once again I ask, why don't you hit them?

So please stop trying to twist every comment I make into something it is not. It is not a belligerent response to a supposed insult to my alliance or bloc. It is a response to something someone else said, that is all. I am sorry if you are unable to handle my responses without feeling threatened but that is not my problem now is it?

Edited August 20, 2009 by HeinousOne

[King Srqt]

So IS is it cool if I raid you? I mean it will just be a raid with some planes and maybe a nuke that is no big deal right? Or maybe you could save us the trouble of having to pretend the BUS doctrine means something and you could raid me. Something tells me you don't have that last option in you though.

[pooksland]

Yet again, got to love how most are quick to hate and spew their opinions without hearing the other side of the story.

Before I start this is NOT IS's official response to the thread, nor even PC's for that matter, but just what I noticed in the pink backroom channels.

CG, I am sorry you are in this situation, but you deserved this little beat down. How many times can you honestly expect to bash IS and Pink as a whole and get away with it, especially when you do not have a real protector? I am amazed it took this long for someone to hit you. But consider yourselfs lucky that IS decided to be nice (I know, shocking? Right?) and only made this a quick update hit and then peace instead of posting a full DoW and continue knocking you guys around for a couple of more days.

I suggest you take the peace that was offered (and that you even agreed to earlier in the day), but if you decide not to, well I will enjoy what happens next. You may have your friends, but IS has some as well.

EDIT: Just to make it clear to everyone, this was NOT a tech raid.

EDIT PS: HI AJ

Edited August 20, 2009 by pooksland

[crushtania]

Oh IS. What hath King Xondor wrought!?

Edit: Also I don't think that Moldavi's doctrine means that the Sith are mercenaries for hire. If I were the leader of a large alliance and saw these sort of shenanigans, I'd make my tut-tuts and move on. Its bad form at the very least and a scandalous breach of Bob-wide convention on the proper conduct of one's alliance at the very worst.

Edited August 20, 2009 by Crushtania

[Puppet Master]

Quit contradicting yourself every chance you get, thanks.

Wow, thanks for taking my words out of context and not showing what i was replying too. Also you should try quoting my whole post and not just part of a sentence.

Here are my actually posts. People can read for themselves and understand what i was referring to rather than just believe someone who cuts and paste two different parts of a conversation.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1787619 ~post 73

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1787775 ~post 124

[Gn0xious Jr]

snip

serious business is serious

[astronaut jones]

Yet again, got to love how most are quick to hate and spew their opinions without hearing the other side of the story.

Before I start this is NOT IS's official response to the thread, nor even PC's for that matter, but just what I noticed in the pink backroom channels.

CG, I am sorry you are in this situation, but you deserved this little beat down. How many times can you honestly expect to bash IS and Pink as a whole and get away with it, especially when you do not have a real protector? I am amazed it took this long for someone to hit you. But consider yourselfs lucky that IS decided to be nice (I know, shocking? Right?) and only made this a quick update hit and then peace instead of posting a full DoW and continue knocking you guys around for a couple of more days.

I suggest you take the peace that was offered (and that you even agreed to earlier in the day), but if you decide not to, well I will enjoy what happens next. You may have your friends, but IS has some as well.

EDIT: Just to make it clear to everyone, this was NOT a tech raid.

EDIT PS: HI AJ

I have a manhattan project now. It's beautiful. I look forward to nuking pink sphere nations with it.

[kulomascovia]

CG, I am sorry you are in this situation, but you deserved this little beat down. How many times can you honestly expect to bash IS and Pink as a whole and get away with it, especially when you do not have a real protector? I am amazed it took this long for someone to hit you. But consider yourselfs lucky that IS decided to be nice (I know, shocking? Right?) and only made this a quick update hit and then peace instead of posting a full DoW and continue knocking you guys around for a couple of more days.

So, wait, it's ok to attack people because of their opinion?