OneBallMan Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Let me get the following arguments out of the way for you so we can get to the crux of the issue. But TPF is ebil, you should be ground into dust and never allowed to return Tough Cookies, you made your bed, lie in it. You say you will pay X, but by my calculations, you can pay:v2= (2k/m) cos(x)+ C' orv= dx/dt= sqrt((2k/m) cos(x)+ C') STA was made to pay big reps when entering on behalf of Polar and got !@#$%*^, so you should too. You bailed out on the UJP you must pay into eternity What is the definition of "is"? You killed my father! See, there is an underlying issue here, and that is simple. The Phoenix Federation entered this war in defense of an ally that was attacked. That our ally was attacked in an aggressive war is irrelevant. We honored our treaty obligation to the end. Frankly, I was quite vocal then, and now that we were holding our noses doing it. But most relevant to this discussion, we were also attacked in abrogation of a signed treaty (put your self-rationalizing e-lawyering away). This part here, this is going to hurt. Hurt, because well, it calls out a few of our still and soon to be former allies. Many of you out there chose to ignore your treaty obligations this time around. Or, only sought to honor the least word of them , then bail out to save your skin. Good for you, if that's what tickles your fancy. Like 64Digits and Avalon and our frenemies in STA, TPF has decided that our course hence will be that we will honor the blood marks of our treaties, until that treaty partner has peace. You can say what you will, but the BS that some of you throw around about friends > infra, well, those are hollow words until you prove it. I can't speak to the past about what TPF might have done, but I can speak to the present. A treaty with TPF is a treaty to the end. Ask yourself if you can really say that about ANY of the former members of tC. As we see it, the forces aligned against us are driven to extract every drop of blood from us because we are the last stop on this bus ride, and this is the last chance to get something, anything from the spoils of this war. We get it. You can have what we can pay. But you will not get blood from a stone. And trust me, we are stoned and will pay what has been asked. We agree that the amounts outlined by Azaghul in his post are within the range of reasonable. But we will not pay one cent to PoisonClan. We will not now, nor ever reward an alliance that attacked us by e-lawyering their way around a signed treaty. I cannot believe that any of the other alliances aligned against us currently can dare to see what honor is gained here. As we agreed that we would stay in this war to the end, we also agreed to a person that we wouldn't reward war for profit. There is an adage here on Bob that says that alliances who don't like the terms offered have the option of refusing them, and continuing to war. The opposite is also thus true. Alliances that win the war have the option of assigning acceptable terms, to ensure that they get something out of their victory. We agree that the terms are mostly reasoned, but that the inclusion of PC in being rewarded for breaking a treaty is reprehensible. If the forces of Karma would rather continue to pummel us for the sake of an alliance who breaks it's treaties, well, we'd rather be nuked into oblivion. We have made mistakes, attempted to reconcile where we can and we are prepared to accept our responsibilities both current and historical, to pay what we can, and to move forward. OBM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deth2munkies Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Interesting. I admire the principle, but in point of fact, there really isn't much that can be done. You're letting your grudge against the Poison Clan damage all the members of your alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 First half of the post is pretty useless whining and making fun of motives that may or may not exist. However this.... We agree that the amounts outlined by Azaghul in his post are within the range of reasonable. But we will not pay one cent to PoisonClan. We will not now, nor ever reward an alliance that attacked us by e-lawyering their way around a signed treaty. And so the truth comes out. If the real issue was that you don't want to pay PC (which we had known all along) why was Mhawk in the other thread saying he'd pay 800mil, but not 1.3bil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyphon88 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) It's their decision to make. And they've laid the reasoning out for all to see. The E-lawyers can debate the validity of the reasons. I can see where TPF is coming from. Good to see an official response coming out about this. Edited July 25, 2009 by Cyphon88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortune Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Good night, sweet prince. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commisar Gaunt Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Ok, enjoy your war! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrnea Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) Expected it was this reason you refused the terms. And tbh, I can see where you're coming from. Both sides have their reasons. Good luck! Edited July 25, 2009 by Arrnea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBallMan Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 First half of the post is pretty useless whining and making fun of motives that may or may not exist.However this.... And so the truth comes out. If the real issue was that you don't want to pay PC (which we had known all along) why was Mhawk in the other thread saying he'd pay 800mil, but not 1.3bil? Math. It is your friend. Try some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James I Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 If the real issue was that you don't want to pay PC (which we had known all along) why was Mhawk in the other thread saying he'd pay 800mil, but not 1.3bil? Yeah - I'd be interested to hear a response to this too. Why repeatedly say you'll only accept $800M when in fact you won't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Math. It is your friend. Try some. I'm sorry, what does anything in my post have to do with math? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Your keeping your alliance and those fighting you all at war basically because you still really, really, really don't like Poison Clan? lol Disgusting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trout Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Honorable move, TPF! CONTINUE ON WITH YOUR WAR! o/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBallMan Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Yeah - I'd be interested to hear a response to this too. Why repeatedly say you'll only accept $800M when in fact you won't? Tell you what. We'll pay whatever amount you guys deem reasonable. Not a dime to PC. You guys want to reward an alliance that broke it's treaty with us, and then call us out on the OWF, let's do the negotiating right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pezstar Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I get the point of the post. I really do. I wish that when STA had our terms offered by Valhalla, rather than agree to pay them one red cent, we'd have told them to shove them right up their viking hats and sit on them. We're STILL, almost a year later, bitter and angry that they got so much as a dime from us. We've been there, in that position, as in that case we declared a defensive war for our allies, who declared offensively. That said, the difference here is that the world as a whole liked and respected STA. We hadn't spent the greater part of our existence stomping folks down and working behind the scenes deals to screw people over. When we were given those terms, it was seen by a large part of the world as a huge injustice. For you folks, it's seen as getting what you deserve. Also, we're not your frenemies. We don't like you at all. We've never even pretended to. That said, I DO hope that you can work something out because we know how it feels to be more or less forced to pay your biggest enemy a huge amount of money, and that feeling doesn't go away once it's done with. It's far more than reparations or punishment. It's completely humiliating and it brings that level of hate to a whole new level. (Sidenote: Remember when STA posted those Valhalla terms publicly in order to publicly reject them? Chefjoe insisted that we apologize to him for embarrassing his alliance before he'd discuss the terms with us again.) So yes. Best of luck to you, TPF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 On one hand I totally understand your position on Poison Clan but on the other I say "take the peace" please let this abomination named Karma slip quietly into the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
celtics464 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 based on some very quick guesstimating math if you take out the reps to PC you find most of the difference in the rep amounts being discussed. so this whole process comes down to PC getting or not getting reps and what may or may not have been promised to them from their karma allies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shilo Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Tell you what. We'll pay whatever amount you guys deem reasonable. Not a dime to PC. You guys want to reward an alliance that broke it's treaty with us, and then call us out on the OWF, let's do the negotiating right here. So all the bickering in the other thread, your entire OP sums up to "we simply don't wanna pay money to PC"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriekfreak Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Not paying a cent to PC will get you somewhere for sure. /sarcasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBallMan Posted July 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Your keeping your alliance and those fighting you all at war basically because you still really, really, really don't like Poison Clan?lol Disgusting... Truth be told, I like PC, to a person, and they all know it. I don't believe in rewarding treaty breakers can't believe self-assign arbitrators of PB morality do as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 So all the bickering in the other thread, your entire OP sums up to "we simply don't wanna pay money to PC"? Something everybody knew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Tell you what. We'll pay whatever amount you guys deem reasonable. Not a dime to PC. You guys want to reward an alliance that broke it's treaty with us, and then call us out on the OWF, let's do the negotiating right here. The NAAC played way better martyrs than you guys are. At least they went with dignity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwish959 Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Your keeping your alliance and those fighting you all at war basically because you still really, really, really don't like Poison Clan?lol Disgusting... I don't see how it is disgusting. It is a more valid reason to continue a war than I have seen in years. People vote with their feet, and if they don't like this move they can leave The Phoenix Federation, as mhawk has already opened the membership up to be allowed to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The AUT Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 The NAAC played way better martyrs than you guys are. At least they went with dignity. I think we got a FAN on our hands, not a NAAC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Not one cent for treaty-breakers. Not a damn cent. -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shilo Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Something everybody knew. I would have prefered one of those classic "We don't accept the terms." threads combined with some gun porn and "let's get on with dying". That at least would have been good fun for all, and we all could have moved on with our daily business much quicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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