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celtics464

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  • Nation Name
    Republic of JTK
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    Coal
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    Lead

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  1. the membership doesnt want to pay reps to PC. its the leaderships responsibility to find a proper method to achieve a conclusion that fits within their memberships desire. its more than possible to achieve both.
  2. oneballman seems to disagree with you see his last post.
  3. Well if thats the case... then its worthless for any of us to even discuss anymore. Its just a hot mess at that point. But ballman says just above that my idea is what they have been aiming to achieve.
  4. I'm not trying to. I guess maybe i should just spell out my points from now on instead of expecting people to figure them out on their own. Here they are. 1. Stop using TPF's past history to assign guilt and reps. Its irrelevant. 2. Restructure the damn thing so that TPF doesn't have to pay PC directly. Pretty simple. Everyone wins. Refusal to do so only proves that the intended punishment is disbandment (which for the most part has already been stated throughout the discussion.) This would make Karma as bad as the people they claimed to be fighting against. Karma won its obvious, refusing to give in, in this case, is petty. TPF has agreed to restructure in order to not pay PC. SO RESTRUCTURE!
  5. lets not forget who started whining about this negotiation first. (karma) Anyways back to what really matters. I'd say the leadership on both sides has failed their members so far in this situation. It could easily be handled in negotiations. TPF's pride wont allow them to pay PC and Karma's pride wont allow them to restructure the deal. PC can still be paid if the terms are reworked. Instead everyone argues over nonsense. Karma is better off receiving reps to rebuild however they get them, and TPF is better off peacing out the war. So why aren't they getting it done? If they cant agree to terms maybe they should change who is representing each side at the bargaining table. theres no excuse for why both sides can't get their way here.
  6. Thats because they wont get any and they know it.
  7. Well then I guess bringing up any of TPF's history is also irrelevant since they had different leadership as well at the time. Isn't that what Mhawk has been saying all along in regards to this specific argument but yet all of you keep trying to come up with BS excuse after another as to why they should still be punished for what the alliance did in the past.
  8. I disagree. No one has an ounce of sympathy for PC. That's not going to change. Either TPF gets disbanded and the karma alliances get nothing or PC gets nothing. Eventually someone will get sick of holding their alliance back for the sake of PC.
  9. I'm sure PC is staying well clear of this thread. It won't take much to turn public opinion against them and in favor of TPF.
  10. This has turned into a rhetoric fueled stalemate. Both sides refuse to budge and the only one who has something to gain is PC. Its pointless to argue about who did what way back when. It has no relevance and will not improve the atmosphere of Planet Bob for the future. At this rate, the new precedent being set is that when an alliance is defeated in battle then they will have their reps based on past transgressions instead of the damage caused by the recent conflict. My point is this, when a Karma alliance loses a battle in the future who is to say its not "karma" to force them to pay back for the high reps they've passed down in this war. Focus solely on this ongoing war and who played what part in the actual war. Arguing about what TPF did in past wars is moot. The only issue that needs resolved is this: TPF refuses to pay reps to PC. Otherwise, terms have been accepted. Its an issue that can not be resolved as it stands, and so an alternative needs to be negotiated.
  11. As an outsider it seems to me that PC is holding up reps payments to the other alliances. What good does it serve them to keep waiting for reps, and possibly never receiving them, just so PC can get theirs? If I had to give my opinion I would say it best for all involved to remove PC from the talks all together. They are not helping anyone.
  12. based on some very quick guesstimating math if you take out the reps to PC you find most of the difference in the rep amounts being discussed. so this whole process comes down to PC getting or not getting reps and what may or may not have been promised to them from their karma allies.
  13. fair enough. although i would argue that from the elimination of these blanket terms it may actually increase conflict because people are not going to want to admit defeat etc in accepting peace terms. it allows both sides to save face and move on. and if its a lopsided war then it will be pretty obvious who won or lost anyways. and does it really matter if its announced as an armistice etc as long as the fighting stops? either way everyone else knows the conflict is over and that the alliances involved will be ending hostilities with one another, for the time being at least.
  14. This reminds me of the US involvement in Vietnam and Korea. The US did not win either war and then came up with some stupid treaty to settle on national borders, etc to save face. I'd argue White Peace is better than making up some farse about a winner and loser and having to come up with unnecessary surrender terms. That will only lead to disdain. Remember how WW2 started after Germany was forced into paying reparations. I would also argue that white peace would only be acceptable when one side fears losing the war, or fears not being able to force/monitor the terms of a surrender. Then there are the few who are just happy to be out of fighting and want to move on but this is rare and not exactly the best approach to building a top alliance when you allow your nations to fight a war, take hits, and then just continue on your merry way. That is not a proper strategy when trying to gain superiority. Odds are white peace will almost always come about through the fear of war and having to fight either now or in the future again if the terms of surrender are not met or opposed.
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