So... Now What?

[BamaBuc]

Actually, thats one thing that none of us really know yet. For nearly three years CN has been dominated by NPO style politics of aggression for the sole purpose of keeping themselves and a trusted few others at the top. They sought revenge against those who once defeated them, and then they slowly cycled through allies destroying those who they felt would no longer serve their interests.

But thats just one style of play. I highly believe that at least two others can easily exist in CN:

1. Multipolarity: We are currently moving towards this. Karma forces are returning to their own smaller less connected blocs and there is no bloc that is currently in charge. It's possible al these blocs could remain friendly or at least neutral to each other for some time to come. We might see a world with various small wars where one bloc moves to protect its interests while the other blocs do nothing as it does not concern them.

2. Benevolent Hegemony: It is possible that treaties between the currently disconnected blocs might end up creating a new hegemony, but one that is more interested in the common welfare of all CN players. This hegemony would attempt to suppress large alliance scale wars but would not use such tactics as never ending war and ZI lists to maintain their status. There would also be no ally churn as we've seen over the past few years. Honestly I don't believe this kind of arrangement could hold up for very long due to outside pressures, half a year at most, but it is possible.

Anyway, this brings me back to my original post. We are in new territory here and we cannot just assume what happened when one set of rulers dominated the game for a long period of time will happen when and if a different set gain control of the game.

You're right in that so far no one has attempted to seize power. But I don't think that's a good thing... There won't be any major drama until someone tries to gather global power.

I believe there is a fourth atmosphere: Nonpolarity. I think that's what we have now. There are no groups seeking global power.

-Bama

[King Srqt]

Karma is as much a secret Bloc as I am the secret emperor of the NPO.

[Vol Navy]

Anyway, this brings me back to my original post. We are in new territory here and we cannot just assume what happened when one set of rulers dominated the game for a long period of time will happen when and if a different set gain control of the game.

I really don't see a new set of leaders controlling the game anytime in the forseeable future, unless by some miracle another Karma type coalition forms and tries to take down Citadel. As a bloc, it is more unassailable by military force than NPO/allies that fought this war ever were.

So I expect things will roll along as they have for the past several years, when Citadel decides they want something to happen, it will happen. See the failure of OoO and the rolling of both NpO and NPO for a prime example. Three things many would have thought impossible at one point.

[Tomcat]

Don't attack Ordo Verde.

Especially if they have tons of allies who you have also attacked/screwed over in the past.

[KingEsus]

That's why I actually enjoyed debating with some of the NPO posters after the radio silence who were actually making good, respectful arguments compared to those who were there just to throw in the same 2 cents 50 other people put in. Of course, with the good comes to bad so I suppose it was destined to become like this.

And the vast majority of posters from your side were doing exactly the same thing. Going on and on and on. Repeating the same party line again and again. So glass houses and stones.

[mhawk]

Stick to your guns.

And reload often.

[Francesca]

Karma is as much a secret Bloc as I am the secret emperor of the NPO.

Is that an admission?

[Tygaland]

Tyga, why do you have to call us out on our sekrets?

My interrogation is working, you have made an admission to secrecy!

[Tygaland]

If not Karma, Sparta or TOP. Its an inevitable cycle.

Who knows what Sparta or TOP will do in the future. What I do know is that Karma will not exist once the war is over and therefore no one will be rebelling against Karma in the way alliances rebelled against the Continuum purely because there will be no such entity to rebel against.

[Mussolandia]

Tygaland, why do you assume the NPO is the only alliance who plays to win the game?

It is only a matter of time. There will be a dominant power/bloc as a result of more conflict. Said power will be the envy of all, they will be challenged and we'll soon start hearing the oppressed masses chanting for freedom. The Karma war took on this dimension simply because the NPO had been in power too long and they had run a huge tab.

[Haflinger]

I think TPF, Invicta, NADC, and any notable PWN opponents will attest to this:

The main thing everyone should learn from the Karma War is that Manhattan Projects and SDI's are a must-have to survive in current CN warfare. A nation with 25k NS and a Manhattan Project is unstoppable right now.

How do we get in there?

You didn't fight us.

Llonach is me; the other three nations were my targets.

I made two 25K nations with MPs

[Tygaland]

Tygaland, why do you assume the NPO is the only alliance who plays to win the game?

It is only a matter of time. There will be a dominant power/bloc as a result of more conflict. Said power will be the envy of all, they will be challenged and we'll soon start hearing the oppressed masses chanting for freedom. The Karma war took on this dimension simply because the NPO had been in power too long and they had run a huge tab.

Where have I said the NPO are the only alliance that plays to win the game? And where have I said there will not be a dominant power again in the future?

All I said is Karma will not be that dominant power because they will not exist once this war ends.

In your fervour to pounce on me you forgot to read what I actually said. You must be slipping, Musso.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Tygaland

[Glen MoP]

In all seriousness, though. Raga has every right to be blindly hateful of the NPO.

If Raga is really blindly hateful it's probably a good sign he should quit CN and find a new hobby. The sheer number of people who are foaming-at-the-mouth hateful has really surprised me in this war. It's a game. If it's not fun, you should probably find a new game that is fun. It never ceases to amaze me how worked up people get. I'm not talking a brief, "Aurgh!" sort of anger either. It's a deep, simmering rage that goes on for months or even, God help them, years. It's hideously unhealthy. Do they get this worked up when they get owned at Monopoly too?

"After years of plotting, at last, I have MELTED YOUR LITTLE SHOE!"

"Uh, what the hell is the matter with you?"

"Remember when you made me pay for that hotel on boardwalk, and then you laughed? I've shown you!"

"What are you talking about?"

"It was in March of 2007. I remember it well. I rolled a seven, and you said, "Boardwalk, eh? I have a hotel. This'll cost you." You are evil, and I have brought down justice on you!"

"Um... okay. Maybe we should play 'Go Fish' instead of Monopoly."

"DEMON! YOU'RE TRYING TO TAKE MY EIGHTS!!!!"

[Tygaland]

If Raga is really blindly hateful it's probably a good sign he should quit CN and find a new hobby. The sheer number of people who are foaming-at-the-mouth hateful has really surprised me in this war. It's a game. If it's not fun, you should probably find a new game that is fun. It never ceases to amaze me how worked up people get. I'm not talking a brief, "Aurgh!" sort of anger either. It's a deep, simmering rage that goes on for months or even, God help them, years. It's hideously unhealthy. Do they get this worked up when they get owned at Monopoly too?

"After years of plotting, at last, I have MELTED YOUR LITTLE SHOE!"

"Uh, what the hell is the matter with you?"

"Remember when you made me pay for that hotel on boardwalk, and then you laughed? I've shown you!"

"What are you talking about?"

"It was in March of 2007. I remember it well. I rolled a seven, and you said, "Boardwalk, eh? I have a hotel. This'll cost you." You are evil, and I have brought down justice on you!"

"Um... okay. Maybe we should play 'Go Fish' instead of Monopoly."

"DEMON! YOU'RE TRYING TO TAKE MY EIGHTS!!!!"

I can assure you Raga realises this is a game and even though he does despise the NPO he has stated his wish for that alliance to be given a clean slate after this war. Hardly something someone with a blind hatred would do.

I find most people who accuse others of taking the game too seriously are usually either transferring their traits onto someone else or are people with little to add to political debate and instead resort to baseless accusations such as "taking the game too seriously".

Edited July 24, 2009 by Tygaland

[Delta1212]

I can assure you Raga realises this is a game and even though he does despise the NPO he has stated his wish for that alliance to be given a clean slate after this war. Hardly something someone with a blind hatred would do.

I find most people who accuse others of taking the game too seriously are usually either transferring their traits onto someone else or are people with little to add to political debate and instead resort to baseless accusations such as "taking the game too seriously".

Who doesn't love a good "You suck at RL" or "At least I have a social life" to round out a debate?

[delendum]

If Raga is really blindly hateful it's probably a good sign he should quit CN and find a new hobby. The sheer number of people who are foaming-at-the-mouth hateful has really surprised me in this war. It's a game. If it's not fun, you should probably find a new game that is fun. It never ceases to amaze me how worked up people get. I'm not talking a brief, "Aurgh!" sort of anger either. It's a deep, simmering rage that goes on for months or even, God help them, years. It's hideously unhealthy. Do they get this worked up when they get owned at Monopoly too?

"After years of plotting, at last, I have MELTED YOUR LITTLE SHOE!"

"Uh, what the hell is the matter with you?"

"Remember when you made me pay for that hotel on boardwalk, and then you laughed? I've shown you!"

"What are you talking about?"

"It was in March of 2007. I remember it well. I rolled a seven, and you said, "Boardwalk, eh? I have a hotel. This'll cost you." You are evil, and I have brought down justice on you!"

"Um... okay. Maybe we should play 'Go Fish' instead of Monopoly."

"DEMON! YOU'RE TRYING TO TAKE MY EIGHTS!!!!"

In all seriousness, I doubt most people are genuinely affected by what happens in this game. It's an IC game, and all the hatred and passion and whatever else are products of how one choses to play this game, who they chose to be, so forth. If everybody would just passively build their nation in a relaxed atmosphere, the game itself would serve no purpose. What makes CN fun is especially the opportunity to pretend to care about things that don't have any effect on you as a real person. That's the whole purpose of a simulated world.

[Karoli]

Karma is as much a secret Bloc as I am the secret emperor of the NPO.

Emperor King, may I be the first to congratulate you on your accession to Secret Emperor of the NPO. All Hail Secret Emperor King!

[Tygaland]

Who doesn't love a good "You suck at RL" or "At least I have a social life" to round out a debate?

Indeed, it is a classic argument that only the truly skilled can use effectively.

[Prime minister Johns]

Karma is as much a secret Bloc as I am the secret emperor of the NPO.

I for one welcome our new overlord.

o/ KingSrqt

[Mussolandia]

Where have I said the NPO are the only alliance that plays to win the game? And where have I said there will not be a dominant power again in the future?

All I said is Karma will not be that dominant power because they will not exist once this war ends.

In your fervour to pounce on me you forgot to read what I actually said. You must be slipping, Musso.

Karma, the ghost of Karma, Karma's uncle and everyone who was a leader in this wartime coalition will be remembered.

The next war will be about what happened in this one and who got off free of charge from past wars. So yes, in some shape or form somebody will be fighting Karma. They will be fighting the world that came out of this war.

See you on the trenches. Hopefully on the same side.

[Tygaland]

Karma, the ghost of Karma, Karma's uncle and everyone who was a leader in this wartime coalition will be remembered.

The next war will be about what happened in this one and who got off free of charge from past wars. So yes, in some shape or form somebody will be fighting Karma. They will be fighting the world that came out of this war.

See you on the trenches. Hopefully on the same side.

lol

So anyone who was in Karma will be then carrying on the name into the future regardless of what the other Karma alliance's do or say? Humourous. So, if former-Karma alliances are fighting on opposite sides, who gets to use the name? Or will it be a Karma civil war?

I take it you concede I did not say any of the things you accused me of saying? About the NPO and about a future dominant power?

[muffasamini]

Karma, the ghost of Karma, Karma's uncle and everyone who was a leader in this wartime coalition will be remembered.

The next war will be about what happened in this one and who got off free of charge from past wars. So yes, in some shape or form somebody will be fighting Karma. They will be fighting the world that came out of this war.

See you on the trenches. Hopefully on the same side.

Indeed. Whoever gets to say that other side was evil first gets to call themselvs Karma. Its true.

[Tygaland]

Indeed. Whoever gets to say that other side was evil first gets to call themselvs Karma. Its true.

Well then, wouldn't the NPO be Karma as they accused OV of evil to kick events off?

[Drostan]

Well then, wouldn't the NPO be Karma as they accused OV of evil to kick events off?

Well clearly OV will be the next hegemony that we have to roll... why'd you do it, guys?

[Glen MoP]

I can assure you Raga realises this is a game and even though he does despise the NPO he has stated his wish for that alliance to be given a clean slate after this war. Hardly something someone with a blind hatred would do.

I find most people who accuse others of taking the game too seriously are usually either transferring their traits onto someone else or are people with little to add to political debate and instead resort to baseless accusations such as "taking the game too seriously".

I'm not the one who said Raga had a blind hatred. That was Chron. I was pointing out that anyone who has developed "blind hatred" needs to take a deep breath and a step back.

I'm not sure what exactly your other comment is addressing. Is it some sort of dig at me or some sort of "your point is invalid because Chewbacca is a Wookie" thing?

Some people get very emotionally worked up over this game over things that happened months or years ago. That becomes quickly apparent if you read the OOC forums, even assuming that all the bitterness in the IC forums is purely IC. I think that is a bad thing, both for the individual and for the game. Which point is it that you disagree with?