shahenshah Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) Earth Vs Mars Edited July 23, 2009 by shahenshah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ch33kY Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) I wish this were a joke. Lots of new wonders for the few nations that can afford them but never anything of interest for smaller developing nations. This is a recuring theme for in-game updates. Edited July 23, 2009 by Ch33kY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzptm Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Smaller developing nations buy things known as "improvements." They also re-roll when they get crappy resources. The moon benefits for those resources are a friendly shout-out to all the grognards that stuck around with crap resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Smaller developing nations buy things known as "improvements."They also re-roll when they get crappy resources. The moon benefits for those resources are a friendly shout-out to all the grognards that stuck around with crap resources. So large nations with !@#$%* resources get to have them fixed. Small developing nations have to suffer and deal with them and reroll. Also, improvements really aren't worth mentioning as something for small nations to do. There's an extremely inflexible predetermined order you need to buy all improvements in to get maximum potential. Until the improvement system gets overhauled, improvements so far as I'm concerned aren't a choice or actual content, but a static constant that everyone has. Just an income benefit for owning infrastructure and nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinzent Zeppelin Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) Pretty much in agreement with Seerow here. It seems to be the perception that once a small number of players have purchased every wonder (which now requires an absolute minimum of 2.3 years and counting), there is a need to add yet more wonders as an artificial way to add new goals for these players, rather than taking a look at ways to improve the overall gameplay to avoid stagnation. I do, however, applaud the dynamic direction taken by the colony wonders. It is a welcome departure from what most of the other wonders, which are, overwhelmingly, simply "buy-and-forget" static statistical upgrades, with some exceptions. Side note: * Relativistic Orbital Bombardment Satellite - $400,000,000 - Allows the "Orbital Bombardment" attack, which destroys up to 20% of a defending nation's infrastructure and technology, and 100% of their air force and soldiers. Limit 1 attack per day. ... Just kidding. Edited July 23, 2009 by Vinzent Zeppelin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kocajj Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) BTW, I want to throw my 2 cents into the whole improvements discussion. There is actually a degree of flexibility when it comes to improvements, depending on how you actually want to develop your nation, similar to wonder purchases. However, it is my opinion that improvments can actually be more flexible than wonders, as you can do improvement swaps to greatly boost your population at times to have even more improvements, or depending on your relationship with other nations as to what you want to reduce costs on. Improvement "flexibility" doesnt even stop after you have maxed out on improvements, the degree to which improvements, such as border walls, will hurt or help will change as the game and your nation develops. Im my opinion, if you are focused solely on economic development, if you take into account all aspects of the time value of money, statistics will dictate a VERY structured approach to nation development. Now, back to the Space topic. It looks like Admin decreased the cost of the Bases by half and also added a nice little touch to the pricing scheme, by having the amount of technology you own affect the price of the wonder. BTW, I really enjoy this feature. With these changes, a nation similar to mine (Insane Domain) would make: Total Moon mission cost: $865.880.000,00 Average Moon mission return: $2.383.161,75 Total Mars mission cost: $1.341.280.000,00 Average Mars mission return: $2.636.102,25 Difference in costs: 55% Difference in return on investment: 10.6% All in all, with a nation similar to mine, the Moon mission is still 40.04% better than the Mars mission if you take into account the time value of money, depreciation, averages, etc. Now on to suggestions: Bond markets. <-- this could actually be a game changer for everyone and not necessarily require the addition of new wonders to satisfy the palette of even the largest of nations. It would also give rise to a huge dimension to politics amongst alliances and individual nations and when you get down to it, thats really the reason why any of us play this game in the first place. Regards, kocajj Edited July 23, 2009 by Kocajj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizardo Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) Agreed. The space thing is very disappointing. Sodium and potassium as resources so scarce they need to be pulled out of a gravity well and transported home? Rocks? Wouldn't be easier to go down to the beach and scoop this stuff up? "Wonders" are proliferating like rabbits. Why not have a random 'Wonder' generator, it'd make as much sense as what's being approved. The problem lies at the heart of CN, it's poorly fashioned, arbitrary and lacking in any form of system. The life of the 'game' is in the forums but the increasing absurdity of the game mechanics makes the necessary suspension of disbelief fabulously more difficult. Because there is no rational system there is no rational relationship of game elements. There is little scarcity or exclusive choices, the few that exist are contrived. Most choices are meaningless. Those that do have an effect are rote, and have only a quantitative influence, not a qualitative one. Integration of alliances into the game is primitive in relation to comparable games. Maybe it's time to form a work group of players and admins to map out CN2? ----- A bond market would only make sense if money made sense. Edited July 23, 2009 by Lizardo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinzent Zeppelin Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 BTW, I want to throw my 2 cents into the whole improvements discussion. There is actually a degree of flexibility when it comes to improvements, depending on how you actually want to develop your nation, similar to wonder purchases. However, it is my opinion that improvments can actually be more flexible than wonders, as you can do improvement swaps to greatly boost your population at times to have even more improvements, or depending on your relationship with other nations as to what you want to reduce costs on. Improvement "flexibility" doesnt even stop after you have maxed out on improvements, the degree to which improvements, such as border walls, will hurt or help will change as the game and your nation develops. Im my opinion, if you are focused solely on economic development, if you take into account all aspects of the time value of money, statistics will dictate a VERY structured approach to nation development. Well, yes, there is a degree of flexibility and decision-making when it comes to improvements -- whether you want your nation to grow at an optimum rate using the established improvement purchase order, or grow sub-optimally with a different order. Most people know that factories, stadiums and banks come first, that guerrilla camps shouldn't be purchased except during war, that factories are essential to building infrastructure, that labour camp cycling reduces bills, that the optimum number of border walls gradually decreases from 5 after about 5000 infrastructure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King DrunkWino Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Ya know, some of the concerns over gameplay mechanics would probably work better here... http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showforum=57 ...and yes, there are quite a few good ideas in there that have been sitting there a while, however I've noticed through life that constant complaining does little to change what a person thinks are problems. /just throwing that out there before this gets way off track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzptm Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 On the matter of resources: there is actual choice there when creating a nation, but it leads to either aborting the nascent state or getting a green light from more experienced players that might be there to advise. I really do wish we could say, "say, with gold and furs you should build up this kind of nation that will be fun to play" instead of "dude you got a crappy hand... re-apply when you get decent resources." Fact is, that's what we do. Of all the nations that have been deleted, can we get stats on what resources they had? As for space, with the currently listed prices, I can actually see different paths to take and different ways to calculate benefits. Mars wonders are for people who think their nations are going to be better down the road: Moon wonders are for players that want that big boost NOW. Possible exploit/bug: If one has a colony/mine on another world and one's base expires, does one's next wonder have to be a base in order to keep the other wonders? Or do they just disappear? Or do they not provide benefits when the base is gone? If repurchase is required, then we'll have to have a "space chest" in addition to our warchests, just to be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franz Ferdinand Posted July 23, 2009 Report Share Posted July 23, 2009 Do the "hot spots" actually conceal this? If so, will attempts to land on Europa be prohibited by Admin? Ironically enough, those are property of the Alliance known as Monolith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amoshu Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 It was time for a change of signature anyway. This aught to be an interesting change, we'll see how it pans out in the end. Expiration date on a wonder is something that we've not seen before, and perhaps does make sense in this stellar expansion of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baden-Württemberg Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 So large nations with !@#$%* resources get to have them fixed. Small developing nations have to suffer and deal with them and reroll.Also, improvements really aren't worth mentioning as something for small nations to do. There's an extremely inflexible predetermined order you need to buy all improvements in to get maximum potential. Until the improvement system gets overhauled, improvements so far as I'm concerned aren't a choice or actual content, but a static constant that everyone has. Just an income benefit for owning infrastructure and nothing more. Still young nations have enough to look forward to, and to waste their Dongs on. If you tech deal you can get your first wonder pretty soon, and then at some point start tech dealing, you want a MP, but also more infra, while maintaining a war chest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinzent Zeppelin Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 ... I really do wish we could say, "say, with gold and furs you should build up this kind of nation that will be fun to play" instead of "dude you got a crappy hand... re-apply when you get decent resources." Fact is, that's what we do. Of all the nations that have been deleted, can we get stats on what resources they had? ... Speaking as a trade and finance minister, I would have to agree with you there. In NoR's formative days we drew up a list of people whom ought to restart their nations, and my list was much shorter than others. If I had furs and gold I'd stick with it, since it fits into the luxury set -- which, since the resource updates in late 2007(?), has been about on par with the industrial set as far as growth goes -- but by adding income rather than reducing bills and costs. The only resource pairs I would say are non-viable are lead, oil, or rubber paired with furs, wine, or one of the fast food resources. Everything else can usually fit into one of the major standard resource sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ofkind Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Agreed. The space thing is very disappointing. Sodium and potassium as resources so scarce they need to be pulled out of a gravity well and transported home? Rocks? Wouldn't be easier to go down to the beach and scoop this stuff up?"Wonders" are proliferating like rabbits. Why not have a random 'Wonder' generator, it'd make as much sense as what's being approved. The problem lies at the heart of CN, it's poorly fashioned, arbitrary and lacking in any form of system. The life of the 'game' is in the forums but the increasing absurdity of the game mechanics makes the necessary suspension of disbelief fabulously more difficult. Because there is no rational system there is no rational relationship of game elements. There is little scarcity or exclusive choices, the few that exist are contrived. Most choices are meaningless. Those that do have an effect are rote, and have only a quantitative influence, not a qualitative one. Integration of alliances into the game is primitive in relation to comparable games. Maybe it's time to form a work group of players and admins to map out CN2? ----- A bond market would only make sense if money made sense. Right on brotha, and furthermore upsetting to me, is that I made the suggestion of making space missions a wonder, which would grant a randomly generated happiness. I feel like the CN staff stole my idea, and are denying me from be able to contribute, because this is so much more jerky than my idea. Space bases - colonies don't even at least exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fokker Aeroplanbau Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Just like how we drag our battleships onto land in order to hit landlocked countries!THE POWER OF MAGIC We will drag our battleships across space on the backs of peons and even if it takes 1000000000000 years, they will know the resolve of our nations! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Litler Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Sweet. Now all the Star Wars alliances can be themed around wars in the stars, not wars on land fought between SW fans dressed up like Yoda and Vader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Razzia Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 Wow... now I know what wonder to buy this month! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustakrakish II Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 LW...all im gunna say. Idk how i feel about space bases. Has admin been playing a little to much Red Faction: Guerilla? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriekfreak Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 I'm a little (read: lot) disappointed about how the Moon and Mars thing got implemented. It would been much more interesting to see a kind of duplicate system of Bob as Moon/Mars thing. Its own infrastructure/tech/land would have given this game an extra dimension. And that is something this game desperate needed. I'll give an +1 for effort though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leprecon Posted July 25, 2009 Report Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) Does this mean /b/ will come back ? (for those that dont get it) Huzzah for space ! Edited July 25, 2009 by leprecon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylar Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Has anyone got this wonder or is legion first to claim the moon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogeWilliam Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Yes, people are getting it..... I won't say anymore but to the new wonders and )): if you buy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin32891 Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Well I bought the mars base wonder today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylar Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Well I bought the mars base wonder today. Mars is for the commies we own the moon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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