Jgoods45 Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 I'm proud of Athens. They should be throwing some weight they have gained around. Awwww, Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 (edited) I'm confused. I never once claimed the Hegemony didn't do a good job. In fact, I quite often argued that they did a fantastic job in accomplishing what they aimed to. They just made a few fatal mistakes and a group of people capitalized on it.So I'm not really sure what you're all trying to say here... I just always thought of you as being someone who was opposed to that attitude. -Bama Edited July 18, 2009 by BamaBuc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anenu Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 I just always thought of you as being someone who was opposed to their attitude.-Bama what he is saying their is that the hegemony was very good at what they aimed to do which was mainly to stay on top and make sure nobody could threaten them and with the exception of a couple months leading up to the karma war they indeed were very good at staying on top and making sure nobody could threaten them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 I just always thought of you as being someone who was opposed to that attitude.-Bama You can be opposed to something that is done well. For example, I strongly dislike your posting style as of late, but you do it quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 what he is saying their is that the hegemony was very good at what they aimed to do which was mainly to stay on top and make sure nobody could threaten them and with the exception of a couple months leading up to the karma war they indeed were very good at staying on top and making sure nobody could threaten them. I'm aware. But in his earlier post he seemed to pat Athens on the back for causing the most people to "go emo." How come when people speak out against, say, NPO, that's heroic, but when people speak out against Athens they're "BAWWWing"? I always thought of Archon as being opposed to that attitude. -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anenu Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 I'm aware. But in his earlier post he seemed to pat Athens on the back for causing the most people to "go emo." How come when people speak out against, say, NPO, that's heroic, but when people speak out against Athens they're "BAWWWing"? I always thought of Archon as being opposed to that attitude.-Bama Because when people spoke out against the NPO they were criticizing a large aggressive superpower that had connections to a large part of CN and could very well decide they didn't like that persons alliance and roll them all at some point in the future. Yet when people speak out against Athens it is generally people who have been aggressive in the past and are now attempting to look like they are the protectors of kittens and rainbows. In short people who speak against NPO now aren't heroic but their was a time when it was actually dangerous to do so and people who speak out against Athens, at least in this post, seem to not be involved and don't have all the details and yet are making up their minds already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Because when people spoke out against the NPO they were criticizing a large aggressive superpower that had connections to a large part of CN and could very well decide they didn't like that persons alliance and roll them all at some point in the future. Yet when people speak out against Athens it is generally people who have been aggressive in the past and are now attempting to look like they are the protectors of kittens and rainbows. In short people who speak against NPO now aren't heroic but their was a time when it was actually dangerous to do so and people who speak out against Athens, at least in this post, seem to not be involved and don't have all the details and yet are making up their minds already. I understand that there's no longer the threat of being ZIed for forum posts, but if someone sees Athens doing something they disagree with, there's nothing wrong with voicing that opinion. Archon seems to consider speaking out Athens to be "emo", which brings back memories of the system he professes to hate. Don't get me wrong, I'm not jumping on the "OMG KARMA=HEGEMONY" train, I'm only saying that it's the same attitude: That people who disagree are "BAWWWWWing" or "emo". -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 OK...Really good post. But people telling others "friend to friend" about an alliance they can join still sounds like recruitment in my book. I was feeling a little shaky as I read through the post on Athens' justification, but this sends me right back into their corner of the ring. It happens every single time there's a new alliance. Ever. What exactly is the difference between recruiting and informing someone of an option. I haven't done recruiting in quite some time, but I'm pretty sure informing someone of an option to join your alliance is the definition of recruiting. I'm also a little curious about this recruitment thread on DE's forums. That doesn't sound kosher either. Does Sparta have a thread in Player Created Alliances? How about all the people who have a "Join X" message in their sigs? Wow... that's a whole lotta CBs. But if the people were friends why didn't they join Menotah straight from DE? It doesn't make much sense to not tell your friend about an alliance your forming that is a splinter from your old alliance that just merged after they already merged. If i was setting up a new alliance in Menotah's situation everybody i cared to have joined would already know what i was planning before the merge ever happened not 2 weeks after they switched AAs. There were, ahhhh, some internal drama situations inside DE before the merge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anenu Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 I understand that there's no longer the threat of being ZIed for forum posts, but if someone sees Athens doing something they disagree with, there's nothing wrong with voicing that opinion. Archon seems to consider speaking out Athens to be "emo", which brings back memories of the system he professes to hate. Don't get me wrong, I'm not jumping on the "OMG KARMA=HEGEMONY" train, I'm only saying that it's the same attitude: That people who disagree are "BAWWWWWing" or "emo".-Bama I have no problem with people disagreeing with Athens i do have a problem when people make their post out to be facts instead of opinions and conclusions created with solid evidence. For example this tread started with Mhawk calling Sparta and Athens "overlords" and claiming that TPF was the only thing preventing us from randomly curbstomping small alliances a practice that neither Sparta or Athens has ever engaged in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 I have no problem with people disagreeing with Athens i do have a problem when people make their post out to be facts instead of opinions and conclusions created with solid evidence. For example this tread started with Mhawk calling Sparta and Athens "overlords" and claiming that TPF was the only thing preventing us from randomly curbstomping small alliances a practice that neither Sparta or Athens has ever engaged in. I'm sorry, where did Mhawk imply that that was any more than his opinion? -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anenu Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 I'm sorry, where did Mhawk imply that that was any more than his opinion?-Bama when he created a thread for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 No, I was referring to the effect of the war in general. On just about everyone. It was also derisive, in that I generally do not approve of such style of posting, at least when it is done in this manner. Then again, I'm just a sour old man lately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taget Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 I was referring to messages sent from friend to friend, not recruitment messages. Basically, we cannot control if friends get their friends to come. It is a natural part of Cybernations. Friends stick together above their alliance commitment, and such happened here. Perhaps the problem is in encouraging your members to have friendships. Have you considered encouraging them to make enemies instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Nadal Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 No, I was referring to the effect of the war in general. On just about everyone. It was also derisive, in that I generally do not approve of such style of posting, at least when it is done in this manner.Then again, I'm just a sour old man lately Get off my lawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamaBuc Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 when he created a thread for it. People don't create threads based on opinions? -Bama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted July 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 (edited) No, I was referring to the effect of the war in general. On just about everyone. It was also derisive, in that I generally do not approve of such style of posting, at least when it is done in this manner.Then again, I'm just a sour old man lately Sorry, the poison shrooms have us a bit under the weather militarily so pointing out some issues in public is really our only capability at this point in time. -- To the anenu Sparta and Athens wanted to roll GRAN back a few months ago for an IRC fight. They even had war movies on youtube regarding their massive war force assembled against such puny GRAN. However we put notice of a protectorate and accidently blue balled the greeks. Of course they claim they never wanted to actually go to war, however several times in past threads they will talk about wanting to roll gran and how gran shouldn't speak out on tpf because we prevented it. Sparta also took offense when we stood with zenith trying to prevent kaiser martens from getting "pzi'ed" by xiphosis. -- To rsox IMO this is pretty much the same thing except worse than the elysium hotu war. 1) Your leader was the one that sent that message specifying he understood we were an alliance but didn't care, not a non gov member sending a generalized message as is the case here. 2) You demanded ZI? We conducted essentially a 1 day war against the top 6 - 9 nations. (keep in mind you outnumbered us more than 4 to 1) 3) I think my actions were overly aggressive and have stated as such that imo it was a mistake.( keeping in mind I had only been leading my alliance for 2 weeks since our protectorate ended), what is your excuse? 4) You are demanding a treaty drop and by consequence threatening TOOL with war if they don't let you conduct a war against an entire alliance for the actions of a non gov member you already demanded be zi'ed. Edited July 18, 2009 by mhawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anenu Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 People don't create threads based on opinions? -Bama don't play stupid here their are opinions that are obviously opinions as they admit to not having all the facts and acknowledge that they may be wrong and their are opinion in were they claim things without evidence and while they may state them as "opinions" they phrase them in such a way as to make them sound like facts. Sorry, the poison shrooms have us a bit under the weather militarily so pointing out some issues in public is really our only capability at this point in time. -- To the anenu Sparta and Athens wanted to roll GRAN back a few months ago for an IRC fight. They even had war movies on youtube regarding their massive war force assembled against such puny GRAN. However we put notice of a protectorate and accidently blue balled the greeks. Of course they claim they never wanted to actually go to war, however several times in past threads they will talk about wanting to roll gran and how gran shouldn't speak out on tpf because we prevented it. Sparta also took offense when we stood with zenith trying to prevent kaiser martens from getting "pzi'ed" by xiphosis. Of course i am sure you have logs of the entire event and know all the details and are making no assumption based on half facts their. However you want to look at it though the fact remains that Athens has never and hopefully will never roll a small alliance without due reason and as such to state that they are "overlords" and roll small alliance randomly is pure lies and one of the worst type of posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Sorry, the poison shrooms have us a bit under the weather militarily so pointing out some issues in public is really our only capability at this point in time. No need to apologize. Also, we have a date next Tuesday, if I can manage it. You know why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsoxbronco1 Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Sorry, the poison shrooms have us a bit under the weather militarily so pointing out some issues in public is really our only capability at this point in time. -- To the anenu Sparta and Athens wanted to roll GRAN back a few months ago for an IRC fight. They even had war movies on youtube regarding their massive war force assembled against such puny GRAN. However we put notice of a protectorate and accidently blue balled the greeks. Of course they claim they never wanted to actually go to war, however several times in past threads they will talk about wanting to roll gran and how gran shouldn't speak out on tpf because we prevented it. Sparta also took offense when we stood with zenith trying to prevent kaiser martens from getting "pzi'ed" by xiphosis. -- To rsox IMO this is pretty much the same thing except worse than the elysium hotu war. 1) Your leader was the one that sent that message specifying he understood we were an alliance but didn't care, not a non gov member sending a generalized message as is the case here. 2) You demanded ZI? We conducted essentially a 1 day war against the top 6 - 9 nations. (keep in mind you outnumbered us more than 4 to 1) 3) I think my actions were overly aggressive and have stated as such that imo it was a mistake.( keeping in mind I had only been leading my alliance for 2 weeks since our protectorate ended), what is your excuse? 4) You are demanding a treaty drop and by consequence threatening TOOL with war if they don't let you conduct a war against an entire alliance for the actions of a non gov member you already demanded be zi'ed. Nah we always wanted to go to war against GRAN. Don't think we ever backtracked on what we wanted...it just wasn't feasible. As I've said, we have no desire to attack GRAN at this time. As long as we both stay on seperate sides of the playground I don't forsee us coming anywhere near war again. 1) If we tell an alliance not to recruit from us and their director of recruitment recruits from us...I don't even know where to go with this. It's pretty cut and dry 2) Everytime you say we outnumbered you, I lol IRL. We had a ANS of about 4k and I don't think we had any nukes. I was 5k at the time and I wasn't even hit because I was too small. 3) Cocaine's a hell of a drug? 4) We didn't threaten TOOL at all. Not our style. We brought to their attention some serious concerns about one of their protectorate's actions. I know I wasn't there for most of the discussions, but the parts I was there for were very cordial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted July 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 but the parts I was there for were very cordial. I tend to think once multiple allies get involved to "prevent" a war it's gone beyond cordial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrrie Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 (edited) First: When Menotah formed, we were utterly adamant that recruitment from the Athens or Dark Evolution AA be forbidden Not that I'm saying you did anything wrong, but recruitment from ANY AA ought to be forbidden, don't you think? Second: 2) You demanded ZI? We conducted essentially a 1 day war against the top 6 - 9 nations. (keep in mind you outnumbered us more than 4 to 1) !@#$%^&*. I'm ex-Elysium and even I can admit this. Yes, they beat us in sheer numbers of nations. However, when you combined the average age of our nations, our military capacity, diplomatic connections, and our experience in the game, we had such a huge advantage that their numbers couldn't make up for it. Don't go around trying to play that off like we were the underdogs standing up against a wrong--there was absolutely no chance we'd lose that war. I don't want to debate whether this thread is stupid/bawwing/emo (what?)/whatever. There are plenty of other people doing that. EDIT: Missed something. I tend to think once multiple allies get involved to "prevent" a war it's gone beyond cordial. Funny, isn't that what you did to OV? Edited July 18, 2009 by ayrrie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted July 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 I don't want to debate whether this thread is stupid/bawwing/emo (what?)/whatever. Stupid is as stupid does. Back early tonight update minus 2-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stumpy Jung Il Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 (edited) Yes because TPF has been known for preventing curbstomps and standing up for the little guy and Athens is a known for hunting down and curbstomping the innocent. Edited July 18, 2009 by Stumpy Jung Il Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 I'm sure Mhawk was overreacting to the situation and that no war was ever going to come of this incident since recruiting isn't a valid CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan III Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Yes because TPF has been known for preventing curbstomps and standing up for the little guy and Athens is a known for hunting down and curbstomping the innocent. I agree I'm sure Mhawk was overreacting to the situation and that no war was ever going to come of this incident since recruiting isn't a valid CB. I never thought I would agree with you Heft but I think I must if I am reading your post correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.