Corinan Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I'm beyond appalled. I await the apology from Viktor and Doppelganger. Don't forget Corinan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwish959 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 In our conversations, you guys never answered the question of whether or not it would be ok for us to recruit from your membership. The reason you did not answer that question, is because the answer is clearly- no- it isn't ok for another alliance to poach your members. Why then do you think that you can justify poaching our members in any way, when on a grand scale, if you poached any other alliances' members that were not neutral, you would receive hell and high water for it? The fact of the matter is that you labeled us as "pacifist" when we are neutral. We are a sovereign alliance, and you interfered with that Sovereignty. To demand an apology is not out of line. To expect that we will not receive any future recruitment messages is not out of line either. Perhaps you weren't talking to the person who could authorize such recruitment? And we told you that future recruitment messages would not be sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 lol. If TDO has any dignity left, they wont give you !@#$.I was unaware that we demanded anything of TDO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 In our conversations, you guys never answered the question of whether or not it would be ok for us to recruit from your membership. The reason you did not answer that question, is because the answer is clearly- no- it isn't ok for another alliance to poach your members. Why then do you think that you can justify poaching our members in any way, when on a grand scale, if you poached any other alliances' members that were not neutral, you would receive hell and high water for it? The fact of the matter is that you labeled us as "pacifist" when we are neutral. We are a sovereign alliance, and you interfered with that Sovereignty. To demand an apology is not out of line. To expect that we will not receive any future recruitment messages is not out of line either. We made it quite clear that you would not receive any further messages last night. When the issue was settled. When I left and we all left and everything was settled. This thread is the first contact I have had with TDO since then, and as such the first time you have asked us for anything more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Put your neutrality to the side for a second and do what needs to be done Give in to your anger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwish959 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I did not recruit any. Like I said, I have nothing against NSO. It's one of the few alliances that I can say I actually like. However, recruiting from other alliances is a bad thing. Now, if it was just a friend asking a friend to help start an alliance, then I would understand, but this was mass recruiting from another alliance just because they are neutral. Once again, I ask what is so wrong about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellAngel Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I was unaware that we demanded anything of TDO. I was referring to this: Can I expect an apology for accusing us of not cooperating in diplomatic back channels, when this is patently false? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Valleo Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Because they are neutral on it Rofl, hell must have frozen over, I can laugh and agree with you! "Oh the humanity". Now don't do that again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Don't forget Corinan. Hehe, or Dry Spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newhotness Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Give in to your anger. i gave in a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I was referring to this: That doesn't look like a demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warbuck Posted July 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 We made it quite clear that you would not receive any further messages last night. When the issue was settled. When I left and we all left and everything was settled. This thread is the first contact I have had with TDO since then, and as such the first time you have asked us for anything more. I think maybe YOU were satisfied but "We just sent out a bunch of recruitment messages- we did in fact authorize them. We messaged everyone in your alliance now, so it is done" is not a settlement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heggo Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) But then on the other hand, while yes, being neutral does not require a certain number of people, In the TDO, GPA etc neutrals have banded together for protection, because you can't spend your whole life at DEFCON 6. By directly and deliberately recruiting from those alliances, you are directly and deliberately reducing their ability to protect themselves against aggression. Hardly true. They can't defend against other alliances since other alliances will call in blocs to roll them: see that time the GPA got rolled. With respect to rogues, unless we take 95% of their troops (unlikely) their anti rogue deterrent will still be robust. In our conversations, you guys never answered the question of whether or not it would be ok for us to recruit from your membership. The reason you did not answer that question, is because the answer is clearly- no- it isn't ok for another alliance to poach your members. Why then do you think that you can justify poaching our members in any way, when on a grand scale, if you poached any other alliances' members that were not neutral, you would receive hell and high water for it? The fact of the matter is that you labeled us as "pacifist" when we are neutral. We are a sovereign alliance, and you interfered with that Sovereignty. To demand an apology is not out of line. To expect that we will not receive any future recruitment messages is not out of line either. For starters, there never was a conversation. You never talked to us much in backchannels, and you never even had a chat with Moldavi. Second of all, if you read my argument the answer clearly is no- you can't recruit from us. Why? Because recruiting from us would harm our ability to project power, which is the goal in one way or another of all non neutral alliances. Recruiting from you is okay because it doesn't harm your ability to fulfill your chosen key policy imperatives, as neutrality is not dependent on numbers. In fact, I argued (and you through silence conceded), that the act of recruiting from your alliance increases your level of neutrality by weeding out non-neutrals, making it a net positive for you. Please go back and reread my arguments: they answered all of your objections before you made them. Edited July 3, 2009 by heggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Like NPO aggression for example? Sure, whatever, our aggression, your aggression, I think my point still stands, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I think maybe YOU were satisfied but "We just sent out a bunch of recruitment messages- we did in fact authorize them. We messaged everyone in your alliance now, so it is done" is not a settlement. And you want what as a settlement? BTW ever consider joining NSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Hardly true. They can't defend against other alliances since other alliances will call in blocs to roll them: see that time the GPA got rolled. With respect to rogues, unless we take 95% of their troops (unlikely) their anti rogue deterrent will still be robust.For starters, there never was a conversation. You never talked to us. Did you chat with Moldavi? Clearly, no. Second of all, if you read my argument the answer clearly is no. Why? Because recruiting from us would harm our ability to project power. Recruiting from you is okay because it doesn't harm your ability to fulfill your chosen key policy imperatives. In fact, I argued and you through silence conceded, that the act of recruiting from your alliance increases your level of neutrality by weeding out non-neutrals. Go back and reread my arguments, they answered all of your objections before you made them. Best. PR. Ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwish959 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I think maybe YOU were satisfied but "We just sent out a bunch of recruitment messages- we did in fact authorize them. We messaged everyone in your alliance now, so it is done" is not a settlement. Perhaps you shouldn't have allowed the discussions to be closed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 The easiest way to get that answer is to do it and see. This. Don't talk about it. Be about it. If it truly is unacceptable, do something about it. Either defend yourselves if you feel the situation warrents it, or be neutral about it. Remember, the sanction of TDO will not save them from war should someone wish it. It didn't save the GPA, and it won't save TDO if someone wants war. I just hope if this situation warrants a fight, that TDO will actually militarily act, rather than be neutral in a war involving them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomInterrupt Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 And if they refuse to apologize and continue recruiting from your ranks? Just asking out of curiosity. My question as well. While I am not normally a part of the "do something about it" crowd, I still don't see what they can do about it. They can demand an apology all day, but considering the fact that private channels were traded for an attempt at public outrage, I'd say TDO kind of shot themselves in the foot here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooman33 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 In our conversations, you guys never answered the question of whether or not it would be ok for us to recruit from your membership. The reason you did not answer that question, is because the answer is clearly- no- it isn't ok for another alliance to poach your members. Why then do you think that you can justify poaching our members in any way, when on a grand scale, if you poached any other alliances' members that were not neutral, you would receive hell and high water for it? The fact of the matter is that you labeled us as "pacifist" when we are neutral. We are a sovereign alliance, and you interfered with that Sovereignty. To demand an apology is not out of line. To expect that we will not receive any future recruitment messages is not out of line either. Good for you, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Nadal Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 The easiest way to get that answer is to do it and see. That is pretty easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HellAngel Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 That doesn't look like a demand. I never said it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I think maybe YOU were satisfied but "We just sent out a bunch of recruitment messages- we did in fact authorize them. We messaged everyone in your alliance now, so it is done" is not a settlement. My turn to post logs! Everyone who has read these (and at this point that's quite a few people) believed that the talks were over. Again, TDO never approached myself or, as far as I am aware, any other NSO gov to reconvene or continue or anything else. 01[02:16] <Heft> We will not send out more messages 01[02:16] <Heft> if you wish for anything more than that will have to be at the discretion of the Sith Lord [this should actually say "Dark Lord" - I wasn't paying attention] [02:16] <Roo[GOP]> How so? Your alliance mass messaged three alliances attempting to poach members. I've simply asked if it's acceptable to return the favor [02:16] <RudeBoy> roo, if you want to press the question that's all fine and well, but do so in private [02:16] <RudeBoy> not to sound like a dick 01[02:16] <Heft> No please don't [02:16] <RudeBoy> but i think our prime concern's been taken care of 01[02:17] <Heft> Four alliances I believe [02:17] <shaneprice[GGA]> The GGA concurs...the main objective of this meeting has been acheived. 01[02:17] <Heft> We may take our leave now? [02:17] <Roo[GOP]> that's fine, from a UJA perspective [02:17] <Sethb[OV]> Seeing as the messages have stopped, I believe we have nothing more to discuss [02:17] <Roo[GOP]> I'm speaking on behalf of the GOP [02:17] <Beauchamp|TDO> I just have one question. [02:17] <Beauchamp|TDO> If you don't mind. 01[02:17] <Heft> ok [02:17] <Roo[GOP]> I'm pleased that the messages have stopped [02:18] <RudeBoy> i trust they won't happen again, but if they do, we might fight for an apology or even more [02:18] <RudeBoy> but yeah we're done [02:18] <Beauchamp|TDO> How long did it take you draft the message and ratify it with your council before it was sent? [02:18] <Roo[GOP]> but I want a clarification on whether or not the NSO thinks it's ok for any alliance to recruit from the ranks of any other alliance. [02:18] <Sethb[OV]> Thanks guys [02:18] <Beauchamp|TDO> Just out of curiosity. 01[02:18] <Heft> I'm not actually sure 01[02:18] <Heft> We can move pretty quickly with out structure 01[02:18] <Heft> We don't have to have very many people approve something or have any real votes 01[02:19] <Heft> So it went from idea to execution within maybe two days. I wasn't involved much with it though 01[02:19] <Heft> Also Ivan rarely gets on IRC 01[02:19] <Heft> But he is generally responsive to PMs [02:19] <Beauchamp|TDO> Maybe he will for a special request. [02:19] <Beauchamp|TDO> No harm in trying. 01[02:19] <Heft> He might, sure 01[02:19] <Heft> Alright, so, done? [02:19] <Beauchamp|TDO> For me, yea. [02:20] <Sethb[OV]> Yes [02:20] <Roo[GOP]> so, just to clarify: you refuse to admit that you've established a double standard here where you think it's ok for the NSO to recruit from other alliances, but not for other alliances to recruit from the NSO? 07[02:20] <Beauchamp|TDO> Thank you very much Cheyenne, Heft, and DJ_VN [02:20] <Roo[GOP]> just want an answer to the only question I've asked all night... [02:20] <Sethb[OV]> Yes, thanks guys [02:20] <DJ_VN> Yall have a good night....go get some food & drink in yourselves 01[02:20] <Heft> Goodnight Session Close: Thu Jul 02 02:20:53 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinnai Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) If you wanted quality applicants, you should have sent them over to some Cit members or all in the top 10%. Sure you'd probably not get and create an inter-alliance scandal, but hey at least you could say you set your sights high. Edited July 3, 2009 by Jinnai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomInterrupt Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 That is pretty easy. Ah, tough guy posting. Still hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.