Poaching from our ranks- NSO

[Locke]

It was a dick move by NSO and you should attack them for it. Put your neutrality to the side for a second and do what needs to be done

To be honest, attacking an alliance for poaching wouldn't be violation of neutrality. If this was meant to be taken seriously (and really, I don't see how you can, reading that), TDO would have the right to do, if they felt it necessary and the only/best course of action. But really? Take it for what it is, and it's just poking fun at neutrals to see how they react. It's like the penguin that doesn't like to get poked. You keep poking it, and it doesn't do anything for a while. Until, of course, it then mauls your hand when it gets fed up.

Edited July 3, 2009 by Locke

[Merrie Melodies]

That is pretty easy.

Everyone says it is, but I am starting to think it must not be seeing as it never happens.

[Torak]

Ah the sweet smell of fragile ego's been crushed. This is a good morning

[iamthey]

Wait so if you are were still in an allinace you wouldn't care if somebody started mass recruiting your members?

I'm assuming you meant nothing would be lost because the members leaving weren't that loyal anyway.

So to resurrect an old point, why is poaching bad? I trust all of my own alliance members are loyal and satisfied enough with argent that they won't abandon us simply because someone sent them an unsolicited general private message. I mean if people lose members to poaching its from one of two reasons; either A the original alliance wasn't meeting their needs be it resource wise, or community wise and they decided to try something new. If this is the case it means poaching would promote quality based competition between alliances and motivate alliances of a lesser caliber to improve themselves internally. This would mean poaching has a net good effect on the community. Or B the individual in question was just an inactive person who had no real connection to the Alliance anyway. In which case this further is positive as it is a natural way of purging uncommitted and basically useless members. Not saying I necessarily agree either way, but just to point that out.

Also just wondering how is this any different than wearing a "JOIN NSO TODAY" sig or whatever, or posting a recruitment thread in the public forums. Obviously your members know other alliances exist so its not like preventing "poaching" is shielding them from some unknown knowledge of other ways of doing things.

Moreover, why does this deserve a public post; the NSO it could have easily been asked to stop the poaching (whether it was sanctioned or not) without the need for a public show like this?

Edited July 3, 2009 by iamthey

[HellAngel]

Where is the rule that says you have to treat people who disrespect you with respect?

[WarriorConcept]

I never said it was.

Your own post

Look at your quote of Fallen Fail, then look at what you said.

[Prodigal Moon]

This is truly brilliant. Only one of two things can happen here: either the neutrals give in to the dark side and unleash their anger on the NSO, or the Sith stomp all over a nearly universal standard and come out even stronger for it. Well played.

[Heft]

If you wanted quality applicants, you should have sent them over to some Cit members or all in the top 10%. Sure you'd probably not get and create an inter-alliance scandal, but hey at least you could say you set your sights high.

Is that an invitation?

[HellAngel]

Your own post

Look at your quote of Fallen Fail, then look at what you said.

It was a misunderstanding on his side. Again, i did not say it was. And what relevance does it have? I find it hilarious that NSO recruits from and insults neutrals and then has the impertinence to demand/request/ask for an apology for not playing nice with them through diplomatical back channels.

[pericles8th]

No you aren't, your just scared.

Uhm, feeling your Wheaties?

Is it really coming to this?

You know that when you post things like this you sound a little trigger happy.

Learn something from the term "karma" what goes around will eventually come around.

[Essenia]

Is that an invitation?

That would be a good recipe for starting the next GW 5 months early.

Edited July 3, 2009 by essenia

[Sylar]

It would be interesting but if the neutrals all blitzed together they would pretty much curb stomp NSO unless they are able to get polar to jump in on time i think it would be a very fun fight to see and Neutrals got pushed are you gonna push them back lol.

[pericles8th]

This is truly brilliant. Only one of two things can happen here: either the neutrals give in to the dark side and unleash their anger on the NSO, or the Sith stomp all over a nearly universal standard and come out even stronger for it. Well played.

My thoughts exactly! Are the neutrals going to let them really get away with this with little more than a slap on the hand? But, if they unite and fight the sith are they still neutral?

Only time will tell... the drama continues...

[Heft]

It was a misunderstanding on his side. Again, i did not say it was. And what relevance does it have? I find it hilarious that NSO recruits from and insults neutrals and then has the impertinence to demand/request/ask for an apology for not playing nice with them through diplomatical back channels.

Actually, I asked if I could expect an apology for them accusing us of not playing nice with them. Subtle, but important, distinction.

[youwish959]

Uhm, feeling your Wheaties?

Is it really coming to this?

You know that when you post things like this you sound a little trigger happy.

Learn something from the term "karma" what goes around will eventually come around.

He has been spewing lies, slander, and other BS throughout multiple threads. When asked why he dodges the question, when asked to put up or shut up he makes excuses. I think it was deserved.

[Hydro]

Moreover, why does this deserve a public post; the NSO it could have easily been asked to stop the poaching (whether it was sanctioned or not) without the need for a public show like this?

Please refer to Heft's post. Here!

[Corinan]

This is truly brilliant. Only one of two things can happen here: either the neutrals give in to the dark side and unleash their anger on the NSO, or the Sith stomp all over a nearly universal standard and come out even stronger for it. Well played.

It's good to see someone understands. There is always a method to my madness.

[Torak]

It would be interesting but if the neutrals all blitzed together they would pretty much curb stomp NSO unless they are able to get polar to jump in on time i think it would be a very fun fight to see and Neutrals got pushed are you gonna push them back lol.

Neutrals joining together to fight? Isn't that a oxymoron?

[Mandellav]

Shame, shame NSO. You should have tried recruiting from the neutral alliances for =LOST= instead. You know, the original and truest Star Wars-themed alliance.

Seriously though, this is pure Sith evil at its worst. I hope TDO, GPA, and TGC stand up for their respective memberships and their sovereignty in this matter.

[Mathias]

I don't get what the big debate is about. The neutrals aren't going to do anything anyways.

[WarriorConcept]

It was a misunderstanding on his side. Again, i did not say it was. And what relevance does it have? I find it hilarious that NSO recruits from and insults neutrals and then has the impertinence to demand/request/ask for an apology for not playing nice with them through diplomatical back channels.

How was it a misunderstanding on his side? You contradict your own claim in your own post saying NSO "has the impertinence to demand/request/ask for an apology," which is clearly false as you yourself are saying it wasn't a demand now.

NSO didn't demand anything in this situation and when Fallen Fail pointed it out to you, you tried to pull up one of heft's posts as proof they were, which obviously was not a demand, so you then proceeded to backpedal and claim the problem and misunderstanding was his which is farther from the truth.

[Caliph]

This is truly brilliant. Only one of two things can happen here: either the neutrals give in to the dark side and unleash their anger on the NSO, or the Sith stomp all over a nearly universal standard and come out even stronger for it. Well played.

Exactly this. Well played.

The neutrals can come out and try to play hardball, and flex their muscles. If NSO says "no", they are calling the bluff. If the neutrals escalate, a PR campaign of "omg you aren't neutral anymore" can be launched. Or a war can be fought. Or the neutrals can stand down (very likely).

Really this is a win win for NSO. Whatever they do, their name is spoken now, lots of PR, lots of recognitions lots of publicity, and threats of military conflict with neutrals scares nobody, especially after GPA's performance in the only war they've fought in, which was basically to expell anyone in GPA who fought back.

[Sylar]

Neutrals joining together to fight? Isn't that a oxymoron?

Neutrals not pacifists

[Fallen Fool]

My turn to post logs! Everyone who has read these (and at this point that's quite a few people) believed that the talks were over. Again, TDO never approached myself or, as far as I am aware, any other NSO gov to reconvene or continue or anything else.

01[02:16] <Heft> We will not send out more messages

01[02:16] <Heft> if you wish for anything more than that will have to be at the discretion of the Sith Lord [this should actually say "Dark Lord" - I wasn't paying attention]

[02:16] <Roo[GOP]> How so? Your alliance mass messaged three alliances attempting to poach members. I've simply asked if it's acceptable to return the favor

[02:16] <RudeBoy> roo, if you want to press the question that's all fine and well, but do so in private

[02:16] <RudeBoy> not to sound like a dick

01[02:16] <Heft> No please don't

[02:16] <RudeBoy> but i think our prime concern's been taken care of

01[02:17] <Heft> Four alliances I believe

[02:17] <shaneprice[GGA]> The GGA concurs...the main objective of this meeting has been acheived.

01[02:17] <Heft> We may take our leave now?

[02:17] <Roo[GOP]> that's fine, from a UJA perspective

[02:17] <Sethb[OV]> Seeing as the messages have stopped, I believe we have nothing more to discuss

[02:17] <Roo[GOP]> I'm speaking on behalf of the GOP

[02:17] <Beauchamp|TDO> I just have one question.

[02:17] <Beauchamp|TDO> If you don't mind.

01[02:17] <Heft> ok

[02:17] <Roo[GOP]> I'm pleased that the messages have stopped

[02:18] <RudeBoy> i trust they won't happen again, but if they do, we might fight for an apology or even more

[02:18] <RudeBoy> but yeah we're done

[02:18] <Beauchamp|TDO> How long did it take you draft the message and ratify it with your council before it was sent?

[02:18] <Roo[GOP]> but I want a clarification on whether or not the NSO thinks it's ok for any alliance to recruit from the ranks of any other alliance.

[02:18] <Sethb[OV]> Thanks guys

[02:18] <Beauchamp|TDO> Just out of curiosity.

01[02:18] <Heft> I'm not actually sure

01[02:18] <Heft> We can move pretty quickly with out structure

01[02:18] <Heft> We don't have to have very many people approve something or have any real votes

01[02:19] <Heft> So it went from idea to execution within maybe two days. I wasn't involved much with it though

01[02:19] <Heft> Also Ivan rarely gets on IRC

01[02:19] <Heft> But he is generally responsive to PMs

[02:19] <Beauchamp|TDO> Maybe he will for a special request.

[02:19] <Beauchamp|TDO> No harm in trying.

01[02:19] <Heft> He might, sure

01[02:19] <Heft> Alright, so, done?

[02:19] <Beauchamp|TDO> For me, yea.

[02:20] <Sethb[OV]> Yes

[02:20] <Roo[GOP]> so, just to clarify: you refuse to admit that you've established a double standard here where you think it's ok for the NSO to recruit from other alliances, but not for other alliances to recruit from the NSO?

07[02:20] <Beauchamp|TDO> Thank you very much Cheyenne, Heft, and DJ_VN

[02:20] <Roo[GOP]> just want an answer to the only question I've asked all night...

[02:20] <Sethb[OV]> Yes, thanks guys

[02:20] <DJ_VN> Yall have a good night....go get some food & drink in yourselves

01[02:20] <Heft> Goodnight

Session Close: Thu Jul 02 02:20:53 2009

Heft you unbelievable !@#$%^&.

Are you implying good sir that TDO didn't seek the proper private channel diplomatic methods of handling this situation, and instead chose to piggyback onto GOP's announcement in an effort to play the victim card?

How do you live with yourself?

It was a misunderstanding on his side. Again, i did not say it was. And what relevance does it have? I find it hilarious that NSO recruits from and insults neutrals and then has the impertinence to demand/request/ask for an apology for not playing nice with them through diplomatical back channels.

Or you totally missed Heft's sarcasm.

Which you did.

[Merrie Melodies]

Shame, shame NSO. You should have tried recruiting from the neutral alliances for =LOST= instead. You know, the original and truest Star Wars-themed alliance.

Seriously though, this is pure Sith evil at its worst. I hope TDO, GPA, and TGC stand up for their respective memberships and their sovereignty in this matter.

I can tell you this much, you won't hear the Sith whine and cry if they do.