New Frontier Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I'd like too see an actual apology like they wanted from Ivan Moldavi and Doppleganger... I'd like to know why we owe you anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wilson Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 You misunderstand this whole issue is a mere PR stunt. The NSO don't actively recruited members who are dishonest and lacking in loyalty You wanted bad PR?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulomascovia Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I'm only 10 pages in, but it's my fondest wish that someone will have taken this argument seriously in the subsequent 36 pages. It's an attack on the fundamental idea that poaching is wrong. A strong attack at that.Why *does* poaching infringe on alliance sovereignty? All it does it possibly remove those members who aren't committed to the alliance. Do alliance leaders think their members aren't smart/informed enough to decide to stay on their own? Should alliance members not be free to leave if they please? Information about their choices limited? Smells like GOONS in here. Good question. Well, I can attempt to answer that from a perspective of a person in a small alliance. If you're trying to start an alliance with only a dozen or so initial members then recruitment is an exceptionally hard job. You can not offer your members the same protection and money that larger alliances have. So if someone from a larger alliance attempts to recruit within your ranks, the nations you've worked hard to recruit will most likely join the other alliance. My alliance sends 200 or so messages a day. We'd be lucky to get a nation a week. With that in mind, I don't believe that poaching small alliances is fair, since they probably labored hours every day to recruit nations and it wouldn't be fair someone from a large alliance to recruit those nations with ease. Also, think of why that would mean: the strong will remain strong and the weak will remain weak. World power will probably remain unchanged if large alliances stifle the growth of smaller alliances. This would lead to a monotonic period which wouldn't be fun [ooc] since there would be nothing of interest to individual players who like CN politics [/ooc] What about recruiting from large alliances? Well, I don't really see why that's bad. As you said, it weeds out weak members. I know some of my assumptions may be wrong but that's the best I can do with my level of knowledge about CN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 You wanted bad PR?? Our Dark Lord long ago declared all PR is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Glaucon Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Because it is an impingement on our sovereignty and just plain out spam.The big question is, how do you feel about other alliances mass recruiting your members? I think you will find an answer there. *How* is it an infringement on your sovereignty? It wouldn't bother me one bit. I'm not sure if you're up on your recent history, but having been on the wrong end of a massive beat-down, Polaris has already lost all of our members who aren't at least a little serious about being on-board. Sure, it might be a little irritating to always be getting a bunch of PMs from alliances, but I'm sure there are worse things in this world. I already get that kind of thing in relation to trade circles. Wait a second, why haven't we gone to war over people trying to poach my valuable resources?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wilson Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I'd like to know why we owe you anything? Oh, look a grammar nazi... You owe me nothing. I didn't say you did. I said I'd like to see the apology from Ivan that TDO demanded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurney Halleck Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 You must be new here.Rule #16: NEVER MOVE ON. A rule that is in effect on any Citadel announcement. Glad this appears to be resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torak Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Our Dark Lord long ago declared all PR is good. The Dark Lord is ever wise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkphysics Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I'd like too see an actual apology like they wanted from Ivan Moldavi and Doppleganger... I'd like a pony but Ivan refuses to give me one The NSO and TDO made up, apology was made and brought here for all to see. Diplomacy FTW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wilson Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Our Dark Lord long ago declared all PR is good. I think the NPO would beg to differ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I'd like too see an actual apology like they wanted from Ivan Moldavi and Doppleganger... I'm sorry for being so damned entertaining. I should have never provided you all with hours of drama like I have. Good luck to you, TDO. As for the rabble, you all reacted as I anticipated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Our Dark Lord long ago declared all PR is good. Your Dark Lord needs to have a chat with GGA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkphysics Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I'm sorry for being so damned entertaining. I should have never provided you all with hours of drama like I have. Good luck to you, TDO. As for the rabble, you all reacted as I anticipated. Does this mean Initiative 487B was a success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 As was NSO's original move of recruiting from Neutral Alliances. The pot shouldn't make a habit out of calling the kettle black. Oh yes, because striking out and attempting to challenge the status quo and imaginary rules of "sovereignty" and proprietary hegemonic issues of national ownership is exactly the same as calling an entire group of people mentally challenged in an angry rage. Bravo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I think the NPO would beg to differ... Really now? I'll take your word for it because I have no knowledge of what the NPO thinks, I am in the NSO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KainIIIC Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 [ooc] Except that people, especially minors and those playing a game, tend to act far differently when the biggest thing at stake is a few pixels... not actual human lives including their own... [/ooc] yes, that's what I meant when saying that the circumstances and grounds under what you're operating in is significantly different. People will naturally react different given the consequences for their actions. In real life, going to war may mean your death. In this it means losing some pixels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramneta Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 This issue is closed as far as I'm concerned. Oh well, back to radio silence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoiL Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Your Dark Lord needs to have a chat with GGA. Good point. Also, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youwish959 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 This issue is closed as far as I'm concerned. Oh well, back to radio silence. Radio Silence? Break your chains! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wilson Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 This issue is closed as far as I'm concerned. Oh well, back to radio silence. Is it...because unless I'm mistake, which I could be, was it Ivan that made the apology that Voodoo posted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Is it...because unless I'm mistake, which I could be, was it Ivan that made the apology that Voodoo posted? Let it go, Mr. Wilson. Just let it go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Is it...because unless I'm mistake, which I could be, was it Ivan that made the apology that Voodoo posted? Unless you now speak for TDO I think it is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heracles the Great Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Is it...because unless I'm mistake, which I could be, was it Ivan that made the apology that Voodoo posted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wilson Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) Sorry, I missed something in a 52 page topic. My my my... Edit...topic not post... Edited July 3, 2009 by James Wilson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Frontier Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 Is it...because unless I'm mistake, which I could be, was it Ivan that made the apology that Voodoo posted? Are you honestly trying to convince TDO and NSO that an issue between TDO and NSO isn't over despite the fact that both TDO and NSO have agreed that it is and moved on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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