NPO - A Suggestion

[shahenshah]

This is thread is delivering.

Question is..would NPO like to be a tech farm for an year or plus for an entity whose unity is ~~ at best. To sustain same political climate for that long period is a tough job for any hegemony.

Edited June 30, 2009 by shahenshah

[von Metternich]

I think NPO members are a little angry here

[James Wilson]

I'd like to see NPO get peace soon just to see how'd they'd fit into this new world. That said, it looks like they're really not doing too badly in this war at the moment compared to some of their opponents. Maybe they could hold out for better terms.

You are one of a kind then. The only reason they aren't loosing score like they were in the beginning is because they have all their nations with any sort of infrastructure hiding in peace mode. I'm pretty sure most nations in war mode only have close too 8,000 NS or less because they are bigger nations who had lots of tech. And tech isn't as easy to destroy as infra...especially when those nations fighting the NPO nations with no infra and 3,000 tech only have around 400-500 tech...

[the rebel]

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why an MCXA applicant would suddenly choose to send out 6 aid packages to NPO nations at war and then declare on a Ragnarok nation. Perhaps I should just keep repeating that question until one of you geniuses can come up with an explanation that isn't dead-on-arrival.

Azhrarn why are you still banging on about that?

Not everything in the world is so black and white, just by using simple logic you would come to find that the nation in question wasnt ghosting MCXA, isnt a rogue and not a secret NPO nation who was in hiding.

The most logical reason is that the nation proberly has sympathy towards NPO and wanted to help their cause any way they can while flying the alliance AA but not being a member. Also i have yet to see any major war in the past which hasnt had mercenaries from other alliances fighting for what/who they believe in.

Please leave your paranoid beliefs out of any topic because they make you sound naive at best and at worse stupid.

[Locke]

Sorry, I wasn't aware that aid transactions and war declarations are opinions. Is that something else they teach you in the NPO? Or maybe we should talk about what they obviously don't teach you, such as simple logic.

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to why an MCXA applicant would suddenly choose to send out 6 aid packages to NPO nations at war and then declare on a Ragnarok nation. Perhaps I should just keep repeating that question until one of you geniuses can come up with an explanation that isn't dead-on-arrival.

There is one very very simple explanation that even a rabid anti-NPO player can accept: he is indeed hiding under the MCXA app AA, and is aiding and fighting for NPO, but was in no way ordered to. NPO nations aren't following orders, as you yourself noted, when they go into peace mode and stay in peace mode, as opposed to cycling out. It's really not a stretch to see someone change their AA. And as we also previously noted, if Karma had any cohesive organization (good luck with that), they'd be keeping proper lists from before anything of the sort happened and be able to track and deal with such members.

Yes, this does directly contradict Loucifer's explanation of him not even being a member, but I don't see you taking the word of an NPO member anyway, and it's the simplest explanation (all hail Occam!).

Edited June 30, 2009 by Locke

[King Silas]

NPO SURRENDER!

[kevin32891]

NPO SURRENDER!

Wait what's that?!?!?

I'm to busy nuking my enemies!

[King Silas]

lucky, you have nukes

[kevin32891]

I'm also amazed at the fear that Karma has for the NPO.

Even when you are winning.

And I love how Azhrarn's hate and wanting for revenge against NPO has blinded and has

paranoid him to point that their some secret banking nations hiding everywhere.

Don't worry Karma their isn't a NPO boogeyman.

Well not yet.

[Roofus]

Just about everyone, including the NPO, knows the Karma hardliners are about as trustworthy as a known pedophile at a Wiggles concert. Apparently, you didn't get the memo.

LMFAO!

You're my new favorite poster.

[Ogaden]

You are one of a kind then. The only reason they aren't loosing score like they were in the beginning is because they have all their nations with any sort of infrastructure hiding in peace mode. I'm pretty sure most nations in war mode only have close too 8,000 NS or less because they are bigger nations who had lots of tech. And tech isn't as easy to destroy as infra...especially when those nations fighting the NPO nations with no infra and 3,000 tech only have around 400-500 tech...

You know you could actually go look, rather than just make up figures in your head.

Here I'll give you a freebie, 3/4 of our nations have less than 1000 infrastructure, and that's including the ones in peace mode.

[King Silas]

I'm also amazed at the fear that Karma has for the NPO.

Even when you are winning.

And I love how Azhrarn's hate and wanting for revenge against NPO has blinded and has

paranoid him to point that their some secret banking nations hiding everywhere.

Don't worry Karma their isn't a NPO boogeyman.

Well not yet.

Ya, if NPO lives there will be a boogieman once again.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

A bad peace is more lethal than a good war.

I'm enjoying the good war. I hope our leaders do not accept such unjust surrender terms as have been offered which I would typify as a "bad peace".

[kevin32891]

Ya, if NPO lives there will be a boogieman once again.

Yes we will use our secret magic to zip us back to the number one spot in a matter of days.

[President Kuse]

Just do the right thing NPO; Accept the terms so we may all go home partially intact.

[kevin32891]

Just do the right thing NPO; Accept the terms so we may all go home partially intact.

Wait we started it right?

So we will finish it.

[President Kuse]

Wait we started it right?

So we will finish it.

With responses like that its no wonder why many people do not like NPO. Well...attrition will kill you over time so if self suicide is what you guys enjoy then by all means please continue your own path of destruction, Thats something we don't need to take care of, You are doing our job for us, Huzzah.

If anything its just a matter of time.

[kevin32891]

With responses like that its no wonder why many people do not like NPO. Well...attrition will kill you over time so if self suicide is what you guys enjoy then by all means please continue your own path of destruction, Thats something we don't need to take care of, You are doing our job for us, Huzzah.

If anything its just a matter of time.

Yes many people hate us that's true, but a couple of months ago probably half Karma were hailing us for everything we did, but at least you guys showed your true colors in the end. And in terms of being destroyed

I have been ZI'ed twice this war and yet I still want to fight. And how are we destroying ourselves? By not giving

into your bs terms? The only thing that's destroying us is your attacks on our nations.

To ZI and Beyond!!!

Edited June 30, 2009 by kevin32891

[Locke]

With responses like that its no wonder why many people do not like NPO. Well...attrition will kill you over time so if self suicide is what you guys enjoy then by all means please continue your own path of destruction, Thats something we don't need to take care of, You are doing our job for us, Huzzah.

If anything its just a matter of time.

Because infra means so much. People are always complaining that Pacificans just live on their forums and are out of touch with everyone out on the OWF (or they complain that they talk too much, but that's another story). Clearly they have a sense of community that surpasses what CN itself has to offer. Now, this doesn't mean they'll just let you take their nations to ZI, they'll fight or hide, but it's not their priority. I think they're content to sit this out as long as Karma is willing to take it.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Locke

[President Kuse]

Yes many people hate us that's true, but a couple of months ago probably half Karma were hailing us for everything we did, but at least you guys showed your true colors in the end. And in terms of being destroyed

I have been ZI'ed twice this war and yet I still want to fight. And how are we destroying ourselves? By not giving

into your bs terms? The only thing that's destroying us is your attacks on our nations.

To ZI and Beyond!!!

Is that your only trump card you guys got nowadays is that the terms are too much or B.S.? Looking at your past experiences in giving out terms you've outdone anything that we are offering. It seems that most of you agree on most of the terms in any case, cept the part about bringing 90 percent of your bankers out of Peace Mode for a certain duration.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to compare who is more mightier in this aspect. It is apparent that NPO and KARMA are both resolved parties, stubborn if wish to call it that. As your Emperor Moo has already stated, you guys lost the war. So that does not mean you get to dictate the terms. KARMA does.

Dragging this out to get better terms will not happen our own resolve is clear and it has shown during these past few months. All I'm saying is do the right and honorable thing NPO.

[Locke]

Is that your only trump card you guys got nowadays is that the terms are too much or B.S.? Looking at your past experiences in giving out terms you've outdone anything that we are offering. It seems that most of you agree on most of the terms in any case, cept the part about bringing 90 percent of your bankers out of Peace Mode for a certain duration.

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to compare who is more mightier in this aspect. It is apparent that NPO and KARMA are both resolved parties, stubborn if wish to call it that. As your Emperor Moo has already stated, you guys lost the war. So that does not mean you get to dictate the terms. KARMA does.

Dragging this out to get better terms will not happen our own resolve is clear and it has shown during these past few months. All I'm saying is do the right and honorable thing NPO.

I don't think they're dictating terms at all. Karma said "take it or leave it," and they left it. They'll sit in a state of war until they feel like it's worth it to peace out. And more than likely some other war will strike Bob long before Pacifica runs out of steam. Don't you see? They don't care about getting out of the war. They're just itching to be a thorn in the side of Karma as long as humanly possible. If they can get out easy, I imagine they would, but they can't so they won't. It's, as far as they can see, the best option to prolong the conflict. And again, I suspect some other war will come to Bob and Karma alliances, united solely for their hate of NPO, will find that none of their differences have faded as a result of the war. The clock is ticking.

[bkphysics]

To ZI and Beyond!!!

Just curious. Since you have been ZI'd twice, what is beyond infrastructure?

I still stand by my comment. Karma should respect the NPO and allies sovereign right for eternal war!

[bkphysics]

I don't think they're dictating terms at all. Karma said "take it or leave it," and they left it. They'll sit in a state of war until they feel like it's worth it to peace out. And more than likely some other war will strike Bob long before Pacifica runs out of steam. Don't you see? They don't care about getting out of the war. They're just itching to be a thorn in the side of Karma as long as humanly possible. If they can get out easy, I imagine they would, but they can't so they won't. It's, as far as they can see, the best option to prolong the conflict. And again, I suspect some other war will come to Bob and Karma alliances, united solely for their hate of NPO, will find that none of their differences have faded as a result of the war. The clock is ticking.

They seemed to have learned a lot from their failed war on FAN. One can always learn from their mistakes

[TypoNinja]

Ah, sethb, here we are again. The one-liners. I thought you would take a hint.

Pot meet kettle, have you noticed your rebuttal to his one liner was another one liner? Whoops! Besides, being a one liner does not make the point invalid, just breif. After a 200+ page threadnought, I think we can all appreciate breif.

When I'm not being a Fascist®, I like to think of myself as a bit of a, oh shall we say, republican. I like to think that I can reach down from my lofty Ivory tower that we Pacificans get (join the NPO for an Ivory Tower on the coast!), and elevate the voice of a someone unheard into the reaches of the heavens. In case you haven't been following, that someone is you.

Lots of flowery words there, let us know when you get to the point.

Here's your chance, sethb: what does Ordo Verde want?

Much as anyone else I would imagine, to be left in peace, to not have those larger than themselves bully them because they can, seeing people treat them as equals instead of potential targets, I've seen the logs you snipped further down, the start of those 'negotiations' was a non too subtle threat made with no real information backing it, and a vicious irony that you had to have an informer to learn someone was informing on you.

My alliance did not care about Ordo Verde before this war. Again, that's not be to callous, but simply truthful. Our paths never crossed, and I doubt they shall cross again.

I have no doubt you didn't care, Pacifica does not even care for their allies. What ever your motivations for going after OV might have been, (I can make guesses but that's all they'd be) you have proven time and again, that you don't care who the next target is as long as their is one, and as long as it gets you a curb stomp. You just stuck your foot in a meat grinder this time round.

I've put my forward my answer: nothing. Ordo Verde ceded its right to want anything, its sovereigntym to its allies, who have pulled it into an eternal war that stunts any amount of growth and/or recruitment, both of which are vital for the success of a small alliance. How do I know this? You were willing to *gasp* try to avoid this war. But your allies will not. Observe (link:

Throwing stones in glass houses much? Remember the log dump from the athens/GGA !@#$%^&* and mhawks follow up? Yea the log dump that shows NPO gov in GGA gov channels. We didn't pull anybody into war, in case you forgot how to read that DoW you linked was NPO starting the fight on yet another trumped up charge, we stood by and defended our allies from yet another instance of the NPO meddling with another alliances government, and you dare criticize others about their sovereignty?

<@sethb[OV-DepMoFO]> I will not see OV come to any harm on my behalf

[23:48] <Impero[VE]> ^and seth will do that

[23:54] <Impero[VE]> nevermind, change of plans

[23:54] <Impero[VE]> im sorry.

[23:55] <Impero[VE]> it would happen anyway

[23:55] <Impero[VE]> our allies would defend seth as a person

Do you want to know what those logs are? It's the fist grasping the hammer. That's what's happening right now there, sethb. Your allies saw a nail, and they saw you, the hammer. There was only one nail, and this was the hammer that was made to hit it. And those logs right there, sethb, that's the fist tightening its grip on the hammer, only to let go when it's all over.

You know what I see in those logs? I see another case of the NPO tampering with other peoples government, and another case of someone willing to sacrifice them selves because they don't want to see the rest of their friends rolled by the NPO. I see the last punctuation mark, the last full stop, in the NPO reign of terror on planet bob. I see all of planet pop rising up against you and your kind to defend people against your aggression and hypocrisy. I see the world deciding, enough is enough and that nobody should be running in fear from a double standard that the NPO set and ignores at its leisure. I see OV's allies standing up to defend them and their government from your interference.

I see Impero telling you we've drawn a line in the sand and won't put up with your !@#$%^&* any longer. If all you can see is someone trying to pick a fight, I think you are projecting.

And so, I ask you, sethb, what does Ordo Verde want? Here's your chance to tell the world. No one cared about what you wanted before, and lord knows, no one will care when this is over. We know what your allies want. They've made that very clear. But what do you want? And please, I'd like something more than a pithy one-liner like, "The NPO to be destroyed." "The NPO to not be a threat." I do you and your alliance the courtesy to think that the person who is to represent them in Foreign Operations is capable of articulating its alliances goals in a public manner.

You are repeating your self, in the same post even. You are slipping.

Tell you what since you asked twice, you must really be curious, since I've already guessed once, lets leave this one for seth. Right from the horses mouth as it were.

The spotlight is on you, and I look forward to hearing the hammer speak through a clenched fist.

You are mixing metaphors, OV would actually be the Anvil in this case.

[Fireandthepassion]

How would the two week term be omitted? Karma could DoW and stagger those nations as I'm sure they have assigned the targeting for PM nations. If they come out of PM Karma could subject them to war for however long they wished until NPO crumbled down to accepting surrender.

However, I do think NPO could do serious damage if their PM nations came out in a coordinated strike all at once to the point that the tides might turn on some fronts especially considering warchest amounts of some of their nations.