Azhrarn Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Is not justice receiving what one has deserved? What they deserve is far worse. If we attempted to treat the NPO exactly as they have treated others, which is justice in the truest sense of the word, they would have to cease to exist. Edited June 16, 2009 by Azhrarn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadshot Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Not to contradict an ally, but, there are many Pacifican's I would like in my alliance. I like and respect most of them. This, and for the same reason. Not because I am former Hegemony, but because they do have talented members. Shocking, I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omfghi2u2 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 If the Pacifican bank is THAT great, then I am sure that rebuilding will not be a problem. After the Second Polar War, we had the top 30 out of 300 something nations bear the brunt of the reps. I know Swiper and some other Polar members payed reps in the 4000+. I do not think the terms are that crippling. I do believe that the Pacifican Bank is competent enough to deal with the reps. Its jut the two week war thing is a bit extreme. I would lower it to at least 1 week of war. -omfg (I dont want to read 200 pages, so I am sorry if I am reiterating a point already made) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbrownso Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Yeah, about this ... you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Really? I've seen part of Slayer's memoirs. If I see him and get permission, I'll send you the relevant portions. These terms are not going to destroy the NPO, just shackle it for awhile, which is both just and ethical. To be honest with you, no one wants ex-Pacificans in their alliances. Why do you think they're being allowed to keep their wonders and improvements? Contrary to the NPO propaganda, with a full set of wonders/improvements and a little cash, rebuilding is not that difficult.Edit. If it was up to me, the NPO would be forced to get rid of all military wonders and improvements. I'm sure they'd be welcome in some alliances. Not everyone is as hypocritical as Karma. We view them as friends and that's why we jumped into the war to defend them. Further, the reps are extravagant because they pick and choose who can pay to further impede the ability of the NPO to meet them. I don't remember MK having to restrict it's tech to it's tech heavy nations. That's the second biggest problem besides the whole ~14 days of war after you meet X condition. Finally, don't forget that MK seemed to be very clear that while they fought for their friends, they mainly wanted to hurt the NPO, ala FAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krack Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Really? I've seen part of Slayer's memoirs. If I see him and get permission, I'll send you the relevant portions. Quoting a work of fiction really isn't the best way to make your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold the Saxon Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 What they deserve is far worse. If we attempted to treat the NPO exactly as they have treated others, which is justice in the truest sense of the word, they would have to cease to exist. No one deserves to be murdered for the sake of killing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raincoat Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Well, Fark was a puppet alliance of LUE led by theblitz. Trust me on this. I'm pretty sure that played a part. Also, Fark wasn't treatied to LUE in any way so the "help" was somewhat extraordinary. LUE jumped in to protect its puppet and paid the price. (This is not to imply that Fark is not an upstanding alliance nowadays). And what about TF! ? Just curious about what you're talking about. Fark joined the game through the totally OOC Farkistan website. In no way was it set up as a puppet of LUE. Goons being from SA disliked Farkistan and decided to bring their OOC issues into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Vindictive Coaltion? Insulting the people who hold your fate in their hands is really intelligent. But please continue. They can prove me wrong any time they like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Well, Fark was a puppet alliance of LUE led by theblitz. Trust me on this. I'm pretty sure that played a part. Also, Fark wasn't treatied to LUE in any way so the "help" was somewhat extraordinary. LUE jumped in to protect its puppet and paid the price. (This is not to imply that Fark is not an upstanding alliance nowadays). And what about TF! ? Just curious about what you're talking about. Really? I've seen part of Slayer's memoirs. If I see him and get permission, I'll send you the relevant portions. I literally just burst out laughing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadriplegic Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Really? I've seen part of Slayer's memoirs. If I see him and get permission, I'll send you the relevant portions. Ahh... I haven't laughed like that in months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEWBert Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Not to contradict an ally, but, there are many Pacifican's I would like in my alliance. I like and respect most of them. Your forums and male genitalia have always been a hang up to even visit, let alone join Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejayrazz Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 You're really going to say FARK was a puppet alliance? Delta, please use a furry spatula and spank the !@#$ out of someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingzog Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) While I won't exactly log dump I'll post a few recent quotes. The connection is still there despite the friction and of course the obvious want for one side to help the other. Honestly the wars actions are somewhat irrelevant towards some long standing friendships. Did you miss the several posts from the Emperor of the NpO that said there's no such thing as "the Orders" anymore? I have cyber-friends in many alliances, including those who are (officially) outright hostile toward mine. In the great scheme of things, those friendships are nice and all but they don't mean a damn thing. The Vindictive Coalition would like to believe this is true, since it absolves them of all responsibility, but the truth is more 'complicated'. It really isn't. And, well, correct me if I'm wrong....but weren't you saying (only a day or so ago) that there were large parts of the NPO's history you knew nothing about because you weren't there at the time? What happened? Got a tutorial on the official party line? Regardless, you need to look at the responses you (personally) are getting in this thread from Karma leadership as opposed to interested onlookers like myself. If your role in the NPO is "official bridge-burner" then you're doing a fantastic job. Really? I've seen part of Slayer's memoirs. If I see him and get permission, I'll send you the relevant portions. LOL I've seen part of Slayer's 'memoirs' as well. What's funny is what he's leaving out, not what he's making up. Edited June 16, 2009 by kingzog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 They can prove me wrong any time they like. I am so glad that gag order is lifted, if only for just this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azhrarn Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 No one deserves to be murdered for the sake of killing. Congratulations, you just joined the ranks of posters such as James Dahl. So it's OK for the NPO to go around attacking alliances for no valid CB, to PZI or EZI the leadership of said alliances, to force the disbandment of said alliances, and no one on Digiterra is allowed to stop them because that would just be... unethical? Once again, congratulations, you're now on my Ignore list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coven Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Delta, please use a furry spatula and spank the !@#$ out of someone. lol nice This is the best I could find for "furry spatula" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raincoat Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 I have already gotten around your problem. Do you have an answer? Explain to me what exactly your form of 'justice' is and how it is ethical. I argue it is not. Your post is very vague and full of weasel words. For instance, due process requires an established system with spelled out rights for the defendent, none exist in an international arena outside of the Admin granted rights. The main problem with your ideas is you fail to provide a mechanism for weighing what a proportional or just punishment would be, that leaves it fully open to interpretation by alliances. In order to argue the current reparations are unjust, you would need to first establish what just reparations are. IE assign a numerical value to each transgression then use that to calculate what a "just" penalty would be, otherwise its subjective and as such not universal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrie Melodies Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Congratulations, you just joined the ranks of posters such as James Dahl. So it's OK for the NPO to go around attacking alliances for no valid CB, to PZI or EZI the leadership of said alliances, to force the disbandment of said alliances, and no one on Digiterra is allowed to stop them because that would just be... unethical? Once again, congratulations, you're now on my Ignore list. You think NPO is the only ones to commit those crimes, you better step back and look a little closer at your new friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Did you miss the several posts from the Emperor of the NpO that said there's no such thing as "the Orders" anymore?I have cyber-friends in many alliances, including those who are (officially) outright hostile toward mine. In the great scheme of things, those friendships are nice and all but they don't mean a damn thing. It really isn't. And, well, correct me if I'm wrong....but weren't you saying (only a day or so ago) that there were large parts of the NPO's history you knew nothing about because you weren't there at the time? What happened? Got a tutorial on the official party line? Regardless, you need to look at the responses you (personally) are getting in this thread from Karma leadership as opposed to interested onlookers like myself. If your role in the NPO is "official bridge-burner" then you're doing a fantastic job. Considering the Vindictive Coalition is currently at war with NPO, I don't exactly consider their opinion to be impartial. Nor are their close allies unbiased observers. Thus, sadly, their opinion is not exactly something you could use to 'rate my debate performance'. That's like asking Napoleon if he liked General Wellington's performance at Waterloo, he's going to say it was crap and Wellington was crap too and retarded and won only by dumb luck. Edited June 16, 2009 by James Dahl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEWBert Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Did you miss the several posts from the Emperor of the NpO that said there's no such thing as "the Orders" anymore? Not trying to repair the bond between Pacifica/Polaris would put the respective body republics at just as much fault, imo. I know tension rubs off on both sides, but don't underestimate the camaraderie that still exists, no matter how little or big it may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Considering the Vindictive Coalition is currently at war with NPO, I don't exactly consider their opinion to be impartial. Nor are their close allies unbiased observers.Thus, sadly, their opinion is not exactly something you could use to 'rate my debate performance'. That's like asking Napoleon if he liked General Wellington's performance at Waterloo, he's going to say it was crap and Wellington was crap too and retarted and won only by dumb luck. Why not use an analogy to a proper general like Lee who will admit when he got rocked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coven Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Congratulations, you just joined the ranks of posters such as James Dahl. So it's OK for the NPO to go around attacking alliances for no valid CB, to PZI or EZI the leadership of said alliances, to force the disbandment of said alliances, and no one on Digiterra is allowed to stop them because that would just be... unethical? Once again, congratulations, you're now on my Ignore list. Ignore list for someone whom is sharing their opinion on a topic being discussed? Talk about petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) No I wasn't. This thread is both sad and amazing at the same time. Edited June 16, 2009 by Corinan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 Not trying to repair the bond between Pacifica/Polaris would put the respective body republics at just as much fault, imo. I know tension rubs off on both sides, but don't underestimate the camaraderie that still exists, no matter how little or big it may be. Were you around during the noCB wars? NPO and NpO forums were not the best showings of camaraderie, just ask koona and umbrae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coven Posted June 16, 2009 Report Share Posted June 16, 2009 No I wasn't. This thread is both sad and amazing at the same time. Not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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