TPF notice.

[Shamed]

I consider it highly probable that Fark would rather nuke you.

With good reason, no?

[OneBallMan]

This thread is retarded, it's basicaly

Mhawk - This is what happened, so we did this, public notice as we cant actually get it done fully at the moment

Frostbite - Ok that is fine, thanks for the help etc

Other retards - SPONGE IS EVIL, SLAYER IS EVIL BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW

Frostbite/TPF - I see bait from a clear windup merchant, nom nom nom on the bait

Good work to TPF for resolving this issue, and frostbite for showing there unity early on. Also good job MK, the might of our war machine meant slayer wouldn't even consider hitting our king. o/

[/OOC]

I would like to make a personal confession in all this. I very much enjoyed this thread and so did the (now very much fewer in number) inhabitants of my nation. Sponge was a jerk to us, not for something that happened sixteen years ago, but in the absolute present tense. He was in the right in what he was saying, I am not arguing that. He threatened us for present actions of someone with a past with him who was trying to relive it a little bit, though ill-advised imo.

That tLC's allies aligned with him, that was a given, and we all just kinda had a nice rabble and baw at each other. It was nice to have this in current events, not the dredging of crap from the past. Truth be told, and that seems to be the theme of the post, I like the FB people, especially the leaders, always have. It just was such a nice refreshing change from the interminal wretching and gagging of "you did this to me 2 years ago, you are evil incarnate". I almost feel cleansed. Chocolate enema anyone?

You are good people. Let's brawl some more. Just name the place and time. But don't bring Hizzy, he's just a strange dude.

[OOC]

OBM

[Electron Sponge]

I'm not sure why this whole discussion even exists. Everything before this was handled cordially and privately. I guess I can't expect everyone to handle things the way we would like them to. Fair enough. I'd request that people just let this thing die. It's been handled, there's nothing to see here. No more posts from the Liquor Cabinet, please. If something needs addressing we'll do so privately as we did previous to this.

Regarding my demeanor when approaching TPF, you can't seriously be surprised. I am who I am. I'm not going to dance around an issue and make veiled threats to people when I can do them (and myself) the favor of being direct, honest, and to the point. I approached TPF as soon as I had discussed the issue with my allies. It seems that some have taken umbrage with the fact it was 8:30 on Sunday morning. Being the scientific genius that I am I realize that while it was 8:30 where I was, at various points around the globe the clocks read different things according to the position of the sun in the sky. We in Llamatopia call these variations "time zones". Also, in the immortal words of a favorite statesman, journalist, and inventor "Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise." I do believe if my name wasn't Electron Sponge there wouldn't have been quite as much consternation on their part. As OBM so accurately pointed out to me, "Sometimes people come to represent all that we think is wrong with the world. You have a habit of being at the top of people's lists therein." I then retorted with characteristic hyperbole, "I'm sure the Egyptians hated Moses too."

I'd like to thank TPF's government for their honest and quick action, and ask them in the future should they need to contact anyone from my government they may do so at our forum or in #tlc on irc.coldfront.net. This will preclude the need for future bouts of Dramanations such as this current one. I assure you there will always be someone there to receive the message and pass it on.

[Delta1212]

Stop being a jerk.

[Wu Tang Clan]

Stop being a jerk.

This post really made me LOL. IDK if you meant it to or not, but it seems absolutely random and misplaced.

o/ Delta

[Penguin]

That tLC's allies aligned with him, that was a given, and we all just kinda had a nice rabble and baw at each other. It was nice to have this in current events, not the dredging of crap from the past. Truth be told, and that seems to be the theme of the post, I like the FB people, especially the leaders, always have. It just was such a nice refreshing change from the interminal wretching and gagging of "you did this to me 2 years ago, you are evil incarnate".

It's always a pleasure to rabble and baw with you guys. I look forward to it, in fact.

Regarding my demeanor when approaching TPF, you can't seriously be surprised. I am who I am. I'm not going to dance around an issue and make veiled threats to people when I can do them (and myself) the favor of being direct, honest, and to the point. I approached TPF as soon as I had discussed the issue with my allies.

Alas, it seems as though Sponge has gone back to his blunt roots as many predicted he would. I enjoyed his months in Vox Populi where he hid his true mischievous intentions in order to avoid the wrath of his enemies. Now that he's no longer at war with them, it seems his brusque and to-the-point demeanor has returned.

[Roadie]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how FB can dictate who's allowed on off site forums and how they can dictate the OOC actions of other players.

Edit: Slayer has a blog where he also weilds Magica Admin Powers, are TPF members allowed to speak with Slayer there?

Edit: To my fellow alliance members. I can not put into words how important this point is.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Roadie

[Electron Sponge]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain how FB can dictate whio's allowed on off site forums and how they can dictate the OOC actions of over players.

Edit: Slayer has a blog where he also weilds Magica Admin Powers, are TPF members allowed to speak with Slayer there?

Edit: To my fellow alliance members. I can not put into words how important this point is.

We're not dictating anything. We're simply asserting that we will consider someone who maintains control over your means of communication to be a member of your alliance and act accordingly if that person attacks us. Since these changes were already in the offing unbeknownst to us, this entire argument is really rather moot. I believe we acted in a very reasonable manner by allowing your alliance time to make the difficult changes necessary.

If you want to maintain contact with Slayer99 through alternative means, that's your own affair and has nothing to do with the Liquor Cabinet. Our concern is solely for his status vis-à-vis The Phoenix Federation. We're not even asking for him to be banned from your forum or anything like that. We're just asking that if he's indeed no longer a member that it be reflected by him, you know, being no longer a member. I assume he'll still be able to communicate with the like minded individuals of TPF quite easily through the TPF forum. There's even the possibility that TPF will use a secondary permission mask to give Slayer access to the members-only forums. Of course if we were to hear about such a thing we would not look kindly upon it, but speaking for myself and my alliance once he's made his trip to ZI we've got nothing else for him.

[Roadie]

We're not dictating anything. We're simply asserting that we will consider someone who maintains control over your means of communication to be a member of your alliance and act accordingly if that person attacks us. Since these changes were already in the offing unbeknownst to us, this entire argument is really rather moot. I believe we acted in a very reasonable manner by allowing your alliance time to make the difficult changes necessary.

If you want to maintain contact with Slayer99 through alternative means, that's your own affair and has nothing to do with the Liquor Cabinet. Our concern is solely for his status vis-à-vis The Phoenix Federation. We're not even asking for him to be banned from your forum or anything like that. We're just asking that if he's indeed no longer a member that it be reflected by him, you know, being no longer a member. I assume he'll still be able to communicate with the like minded individuals of TPF quite easily through the TPF forum. There's even the possibility that TPF will use a secondary permission mask to give Slayer access to the members-only forums. Of course if we were to hear about such a thing we would not look kindly upon it, but speaking for myself and my alliance once he's made his trip to ZI we've got nothing else for him.

I'm sorry. But I do not see there being any justification for tLC and by extension, Frostbite, dictating whether ot nor an alliance can chat with former players on some public IRC chan or in the TPF forums. I do understand that if TPF made a decision to allow a rogue to retain access to the members area of our forum, or retain the Admin Wonder, that there would be no way to not view that as questionable from your end. What I don't understand is how OOC actions are an IC CB.

The follow on question is whether this threat from tLC and by extension, Frostbite, still hold when that former member is no longer a player in CN.

And thank you for taking the time to respond to my previous post.

[Alterego]

We're not dictating anything.

[08:34] <electron_sponge> if he's truly not a member of TPF his access needs to be removed today

[08:34] <electron_sponge> otherwise we'll be declaring war

That is an order. You told him to do it, he didn't suggest it, you followed the order with a threat. You gave him an order to make sure slayer was removed and then told him if he didn't remove slayer from their forum TPF would be attacked by you and your allies.

[King Srqt]

I'm sorry. But I do not see there being any justification for tLC and by extension, Frostbite, dictating whether ot nor an alliance can chat with former players on some public IRC chan or in the TPF forums. I do understand that if TPF made a decision to allow a rogue to retain access to the members area of our forum, or retain the Admin Wonder, that there would be no way to not view that as questionable from your end. What I don't understand is how OOC actions are an IC CB.

The follow on question is whether this threat from tLC and by extension, Frostbite, still hold when that former member is no longer a player in CN.

And thank you for taking the time to respond to my previous post.

Are you really that dense? He isn't saying you can't communicate with him or that he has to be banned from your forums he is saying that if he is masked as an admin or member of TPF they will treat him as a member of TPF, and if a member of TPF declares war on someone and is not removed that action will be seen as sanctioned by TPF.

Stop trying to spin this you are really bad at it.

[Delta1212]

I'm sorry. But I do not see there being any justification for tLC and by extension, Frostbite, dictating whether ot nor an alliance can chat with former players on some public IRC chan or in the TPF forums. I do understand that if TPF made a decision to allow a rogue to retain access to the members area of our forum, or retain the Admin Wonder, that there would be no way to not view that as questionable from your end. What I don't understand is how OOC actions are an IC CB.

The follow on question is whether this threat from tLC and by extension, Frostbite, still hold when that former member is no longer a player in CN.

And thank you for taking the time to respond to my previous post.

Umm... Am I missing something?

[Electron Sponge]

I'm sorry. But I do not see there being any justification for tLC and by extension, Frostbite, dictating whether ot nor an alliance can chat with former players on some public IRC chan or in the TPF forums.

If you review my last statement I suggested that such things were still possible.

I do understand that if TPF made a decision to allow a rogue to retain access to the members area of our forum, or retain the Admin Wonder, that there would be no way to not view that as questionable from your end. What I don't understand is how OOC actions are an IC CB.

Casus belli is established in this instance when it is apparent that the offending nation is still exerting a substantial amount of control over the alliance. Administrative control of the means of communication, both real-time IRC and forum, represents substantive control for our purposes.

The follow on question is whether this threat from tLC and by extension, Frostbite, still hold when that former member is no longer a player in CN.

And thank you for taking the time to respond to my previous post.

Unlike some other alliances who will remain nameless, we do not pursue people beyond the time when their nation ceases nor do we even pursue them once we've (at maximum) given them a single sentence of zero infrastructure. Of course this policy is my own personal edict and remains subject to change given extreme circumstances, but as far as Slayer goes once he hits ZI we're done with him. We as an alliance do not believe in perma-ZI or eternal ZI. If he were to come back later with the same name, we'd have no issue with it.

It's my pleasure to respond as I think it's important that my position on this is very clear, since it has been misrepresented quite a few times in this discussion both intentionally and unintentionally.

[King Srqt]

We as an alliance do not believe in perma-ZI or eternal ZI. If he were to come back later with the same name, we'd have no issue with it.

But Sponge you are evil and once Vox was gone and you got back into alliance leadership you were supposed to abuse your power to oppress the masses!

[Electron Sponge]

But Sponge you are evil and once Vox was gone and you got back into alliance leadership you were supposed to abuse your power to oppress the masses!

Sorry to disappoint.

[zzzptm]

Pretty much sums it up. As the new designated root admin wasn't available last night, I handed over root to him today. My apologies to mhawk and TPF for not doing it in a more orderly fashion. [OOC] The domain has already been transferred to JBone, the Donation button for the forums transferred to JBone and Monday-Tuesday I'll be transferring the hosting and IPB license to JBone. I'm done with PB...no time and I don't care anymore. [/OOC] As others will attest, I haven't been around much the last couple of months.

To sum up, I'm going out with a bang and I really don't care what anyone thinks about it...especially Spongebob, the Liquor Cabinet and the rest of the bloc (Sponge was for blocs, then against them, then for them?). Spongebob gets to enjoy a week's worth of nukes. I only attacked Fark to give them the pleasure of getting some measure of revenge on me after years of being a thorn in their side. If it was up to me, a Fark nation would ride me to deletion. Fark brought me into the game...only fitting that they take me out.

[ooc]Vaya con dios, dude. You brought a lot of tension, drama, and fun to the game and I wish you the best in your real-life life.[/ooc]

[ic]I see Fark is already filling your inbound slots. I suspect they shan't show mercy. Make your peace with Admin, for you shall see him soon.

And when you see him, drop us a message from the afterlife if Walford's at his side or not. I got $20 riding on the answer to that question.[/ic]

[Electron Sponge]

And when you see him, drop us a message from the afterlife if Walford's at his side or not. I got $20 riding on the answer to that question.

He's going to get a nasty shock when he sees Alvis and Barry White standing there

[Master Hakai]

Sorry to see you guys losing your alliance's best representative (see sig).

I hope things work out, I guess? Honestly it doesn't bother me one way or another. Have fun (because we all know TPF is known for knowing how to have fun)!

[D34th]

ES you are as bad as NPO!

Also bye Slayer, I'll miss you, really.

[Bob Janova]

I'm sorry. But I do not see there being any justification for tLC and by extension, Frostbite, dictating whether ot nor an alliance can chat with former players on some public IRC chan or in the TPF forums.

No-one is dictating that.

I do understand that if TPF made a decision to allow a rogue to retain access to the members area of our forum, or retain the Admin Wonder, that there would be no way to not view that as questionable from your end.

That is exactly what Sponge was saying – remove Slayer's admin and members' access or be 'viewed as questionable'.

What I don't understand is how OOC actions are an IC CB.

[ooc]Membership of an alliance is not OOC, and masking on offsite is a good way to determine membership.[/ooc]

The follow on question is whether this threat from tLC and by extension, Frostbite, still hold when that former member is no longer a player in CN.

There was no threat beyond that of war if Slayer was permitted to remain a member. Which is already solved (read the thread) so now there is no threat at all.

And yes, I just took Sponge's side. Hold on to your hats.

[The AUT]

Sorry to see you guys losing your alliance's best representative (see sig).

I hope things work out, I guess? Honestly it doesn't bother me one way or another. Have fun (because we all know TPF is known for knowing how to have fun)!

Your sarcasm is scathing, Hakai. Why don't you drop the BS already and just move on like everyone else has. Leave Slayer be.

[Electron Sponge]

And yes, I just took Sponge's side. Hold on to your hats.

It's nice to be right for once isn't it?

Your sarcasm is scathing, Hakai. Why don't you drop the BS already and just move on like everyone else has. Leave Slayer be.

Sorry, the 'oh poor Slayer' thing really won't fly. I doubt even Slayer would want that. Leave him be? This whole thing is his doing.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Electron Sponge

[The AUT]

Sorry, the 'oh poor Slayer' thing really won't fly. I doubt even Slayer would want that. Leave him be? This whole thing is his doing.

If you know half the things Slayer has done behind the scenes, and no I don't mean the bait you took between him and mhawk, you'd know he's done a lot of good things for players in this game. Use the "Nordreich/Hegemony" junk all you want but he has been a kind person to those who know him.

[neneko]

Your sarcasm is scathing, Hakai. Why don't you drop the BS already and just move on like everyone else has. Leave Slayer be.

Leave slayer alone! leave him alone! ;_;

I would make a serious contribution to the thread but the whole thing is just silly at this point.

[CaptainImpavid]

If you know half the things Slayer has done behind the scenes, and no I don't mean the bait you took between him and mhawk, you'd know he's done a lot of good things for players in this game. Use the "Nordreich/Hegemony" junk all you want but he has been a kind person to those who know him.

First, LOL.

Second, even assuming the factual basis of what you say, throwing an ice cream social for some orphans, while nice, does not really obviate one's responsibility for previous, more heinous acts. Hold him personally admirable for some good he might have done you, fine, but don't by any means try to objectively say that his smiling benevolent Buddha persona was more dominant or more worth remembering than the odd amalgamation of Brutus, Judas, and Benedict Arnold that he proved to be on so very many occasions.

Saying he was "exceedingly good to the people he hadn't yet had reason to betray" is rather faint praise.

/This message brought to you by the Campaign for Slayer's Reroll to Attack Impavidium, by the United Friends of International Amity, and the letter D.