Ragnarok Announcement

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

Oh joy, oh rapture, another fascinating thread heralding the advent of the new world. I think that it's marvellous to see that things will remain rather interesting on Planet Bob for the foreseeable future

[Finster Baby]

The real numbers have already been stated.

Oh and Mr. Owl confirmed that it takes 3 licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop many years ago.

Whether reparations should have been asked for at all is a completely separate topic, but as for the amounts, no question that rumors weren't on the same planet as what was actually being talked about. Topic dead.

You woould be wise to read the link that Chairman Hal provided, as that is accurate.

Tho I will also dispute the 3 licks theory....

[Locke]

And people said that LiquidMercury killed all the drama in this thread.

[avernite]

Smearing is any reputation-damaging activity. If you are going to spread something about someone, its smearing either way. Fact it was false just makes it lie.

No, smearing is deliberately damaging reputation with known lies, at least in the law-books of Mafal Dadaranell (OOC: Dutch laws).

In any case, I believe asking for evidence without the possible results of either, and without qualitative adjectives, would've had the same effect. Which is that we now know the figure to be false, we know where it came from, and we thus can conclude it was not smearing but an error. Given the source it's logical that it was believed, and given the claim it is logical that RoK was not happy with that.

[ojiras ajeridas]

Isn't the important part of reps that one shown to the defied party of the war, and there specially those reps accepted by the defied party? So, isn't this whole discussion a bit pointless?

[Khyber]

I thought Finsterbaby already said it wasn't true in another thread I read.

And it seems chairman Hal also did so in a topic I didn't read.

Why are we back to this topic again?

[AirMe]

EDIT: Trace was channeling through me. Ignore this hate.

Edited May 29, 2009 by AirMe

[HellAngel]

Was there a need to put out names and accuse them of starting a smearing campaign Airme?

Rumors get around, thats how it goes. That doesnt necessarily mean they are true. Just stating they are not would have been enough, but apparently, people need to bring out grudges.

[Poyplemonkeys]

I suppose a few people learnt something about running with wild completely unconfirmed theories today? Or maybe not, I won't be surprised to see more TOP members posting about how much better than the horrific alliance that RoK is if they dare receive a single dollar in reps from Pacifica.

Was there a need to put out names and accuse them of starting a smearing campaign Airme?

Rumors get around, thats how it goes. That doesnt necessarily mean they are true. Just stating they are not would have been enough, but apparently, people need to bring out grudges.

I guess you didn't follow Hal's link earlier. In that thread the figure 9bil and 100k tech gets brought up. Gen Lee states it's not true like you suggested would be enough. Bama then quotes him saying he's wrong. Yeah apparently just stating it's not true isn't enough because people love to spread these rumours like wildfire, confirmed or not.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Poyplemonkeys

[Poyplemonkeys]

Woops double post.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Poyplemonkeys

[HellAngel]

I suppose a few people learnt something about running with wild completely unconfirmed theories today? Or maybe not, I won't be surprised to see more TOP members posting about how much better than the horrific alliance that RoK is if they dare receive a single dollar in reps from Pacifica.

I guess you didn't follow Hal's link earlier. In that thread the figure 9bil and 100k tech gets brought up. Gen Lee states it's not true like you suggested would be enough. Bama then quotes him saying he's wrong. Yeah apparently just stating it's not true isn't enough because people love to spread these rumours like wildfire, confirmed or not.

So following your logic Bama has more knowledge of RoK internal works than RoK itself? I dont get it. Why was there a need to continue?

If Bama doesnt want to listen, why even care?

[mykep]

No, smearing is deliberately damaging reputation with known lies, at least in the law-books of Mafal Dadaranell (OOC: Dutch laws).

In any case, I believe asking for evidence without the possible results of either, and without qualitative adjectives, would've had the same effect. Which is that we now know the figure to be false, we know where it came from, and we thus can conclude it was not smearing but an error. Given the source it's logical that it was believed, and given the claim it is logical that RoK was not happy with that.

So when you deliberately are damaging reputation with accusations, what is that? That is what we are looking at today. If anyone wished to make this more of a discussion rather than a smear, it would be in private channels ftw.

Was there a need to put out names and accuse them of starting a smearing campaign Airme?

Rumors get around, thats how it goes. That doesnt necessarily mean they are true. Just stating they are not would have been enough, but apparently, people need to bring out grudges.

He might have named them simply to directly address those he believed were smearing. This would be thier time to say, "No we didnt." Rumors do get around, and yes that doesnt make them true. So why would any logical person take that rumor at heart and address it in a public domain when it could be disproven with a simple "No" like it was the first several 40 pages of the surrender topic.

[mykep]

So following your logic Bama has more knowledge of RoK internal works than RoK itself? I dont get it. Why was there a need to continue?

If Bama doesnt want to listen, why even care?

I believe he is saying Bama thought he had more knowledge of RoK's internal works.

Because for one reason or another, people listen to Bama.

[Poyplemonkeys]

So following your logic Bama has more knowledge of RoK internal works than RoK itself? I dont get it. Why was there a need to continue?

Erm, no, actually. I'm struggling to follow your logic reaching that conclusion as it is to be honest. All I did was point out Bama was arguing with Ragnarok about the level of reps, after it had been pointed out he was wrong. Your original post claimed that this thread was unnecessary, all they needed to do was say that these reps were not the correct figures, but that is not true. They tried that and people continued to argue against it and spread the rumours. Which brings me to:

If Bama doesnt want to listen, why even care?

Because the longer Bama's posts go on with the only rebuttals being Ragnarok saying 'that's not true' the more the people that aren't sure what the truth are have the opportunity to be swayed towards Bama's way of thinking. It's pretty easy to see why Ragnarok doesn't want people thinking they tried to force the utterly ludicrous level of reps on an alliance, so this thread was made.

Fact is that after this thread Bama either puts up, or shuts up which is exactly what RoK wants.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Poyplemonkeys

[Balder]

Score one for the RoK.

Seriously though, I love the Holier Than Thou Brigade in this thread.

GLee

The "I'm More Moral Than You!" Crowd

[mythicknight]

QUOTE (HellAngel @ May 29 2009, 04:37 AM) *

The information originated from RoK. Im not gonna pull out names, but they should probably have checked internally first if anyone gave out a false information before they start to put the blame only on others. LM didnt make that number up. He spread it, though.

QUOTE ((DAC)Syzygy @ May 29 2009, 05:02 AM) *

so much diplomatic mess for so little gain. not demanding reps for sure has deeper reasons than just moral ones. it saves a lot of trouble, grudges, long-term-fallout. worth more than any cash/tech-amount you can demand in my opinion.

with that, I hope all that unnessessary !@#$%*ing about IRONs terms finally ends and everyone learns his lesson.

QUOTE (Sadinoelus @ May 29 2009, 07:38 AM) *

I don't deny he has a legitimate grievance - what I can't stand is that there's a layer of bollocks placed right over it. All he needed to do was post that there were incorrect claims on what the initial reparation statements were, and prove why said claims were wrong. He didn't need to pull a useless stunt he has no commitment to fulfill.

Got it. TOP + Gremlins > The Rest of us. I for one, like the OP, someone was spreading lies about RoK and he confronted them out in the open, because going through back channels wasn't getting him anywhere. Then within the first few posts of the thread someone manned up and accepted some responsibility. But now here you guys are 2 pages later starting crap and strutting around here like your crap doesn't stink. Get over yourselves.

I happen to know that RoK has spent sometime internally to make sure that no one from their alliance spit out these numbers.

EDIT: Quotes messed up.

NOT SO FAST AIRME

Also, I think Sadinoelus' firs tpost here was spot-on.

[Kindom of Goon]

This thread really should have died with LM's post

[Hasin]

I will smear you all!

[Khyber]

Edited out out of respect for Airme, knowing that life can be a *&^%$ and we all get out and want to rant some times.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Khyber

[HellAngel]

So when you deliberately are damaging reputation with accusations, what is that? That is what we are looking at today. If anyone wished to make this more of a discussion rather than a smear, it would be in private channels ftw.

He might have named them simply to directly address those he believed were smearing. This would be thier time to say, "No we didnt." Rumors do get around, and yes that doesnt make them true. So why would any logical person take that rumor at heart and address it in a public domain when it could be disproven with a simple "No" like it was the first several 40 pages of the surrender topic.

Not really getting what you are referring to exactly now. Bama again? Thats one person. You dont make an announcement to disprove one person.

[ojiras ajeridas]

This thread really should have died with LM's post

^^^ This. There were rumours out of nowhere. They were stated as not true. So what?

[Augustus Autumn]

This thread really should have died with LM's post

Cease your deployment of logic, sir, or there shall be dire consequences!

[Matthew Conrad]

This thread really should have died with LM's post

QFT

This thread is skirting dangerously close to the Valhalla thread. I don't really see a difference in views besides the fact that some people thought the announcement was worded unfairly. TBH, is it really worth that little bit to get into the big argument this is surely going to turn into?

[Carter]

Welp, that just about sums it up.

o/ RoK

[Saber]

Sorry RoK. We did not want to smear. Accept our apologies.

You deserve better than us smearing you. We'll stop now.

Our bad,