Ragnarok Announcement

[Ramirus Maximus]

It'd take you several years to dish out that many reps... =P

$9,000,000,000 would take 3000 aid packets, so 500 nations could do it in 1 day.

110k tech would take 2200 aid packets, but you can send $3mil and 50 tech in one Aid slot so see above.

1 day < several years.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Ramirus Maximus

[Duke Dreadful]

Lol do you actualy beleive that every single IRON nation has 15 mil and 50 tech just lying around after a war in which we lost millions of NS.

Every Alliance isn't the same as Gramlins.

[Stewie]

$9,000,000,000 would take 3000 aid packets, so 500 nations could do it in 1 day.

110k tech would take 2200 aid packets, but you can send $3mil and 50 tech in one Aid slot so see above.

1 day < several years.

Not everyone has the 6 slot wonder

Plus I was saying if you were putting it to a single nation - That would be beasty

And some of the IRON nations will be smaller nations who spend their money as soon as they get it.

[Finster Baby]

IRON was never given any number close to the 6b/100k or 110k tech that seems to be floating around.

I even told BamaBuc that privately. IF there was this number existing, it was an internal RoK working number and was never communicated to IRON as an official demand that *I* am aware of.

Yes, there was a number that was higher than what was accepted. However, there's a reason Peace Talks are called negotiations.

IRON intends to honor the agreement as it exists.

[Sadinoelus]

I love this OP - but not for the reasons most do. It's a masterful example of modern propaganda.

First, our dear Gen Lee portrays Ragnarok under attack. Here, he casts Bama, TOP and IRON as shadowy agent provocateurs, smearing the just and honorable relation of Ragnarok. For you see, in public relations, sympathy is almost always cast with the defender, and with the increasing role of public relations within the politics of Planet Bob, one must always make sure to convincingly play the victim in order to get broader support.

Secondly, he demands that the accusing party provide the proof. Now, this seems perfectly reasonable, but it's also a ploy. You see, there's a much simpler solution - he clearly knows what the initial reparations were and could merely show us right here and right now and that would be that. But there's always a slight chance that some might see the actual initial reps as too high, causing negative feedback. And you never want negatives in a good propaganda piece.

But finally, he claims that should these unjust claims actually prove true, he shall swiftly take action to rectify it. Here again, he appeals to one's sense of justice, but again, things are not what they seem. It is all merely a shell game - there was a precisely 0% chance Ragnarok would release IRON from reparation payments before and there is a precisely 0% chance Ragnarok would release IRON from reparation payments now. But the point is that there is an appearance that you might just free them from their reparations, even if you are just tauntingly jingling the keys to the prison cell right in front of the captive prisoners.

So bravo, good sir, I would recommend this to anybody new to playing the PR game on Planet Bob. You risk nothing (except perhaps people like me calling you out on it) and gain a broader support base.

Or would you perhaps like to prove that this is not just some big bit of bravado?

[Mixoux]

It seems the propaganda is starting before the war even ends.

Some of you will get that, most won't.

[CptGodzilla]

I love this OP - but not for the reasons most do. It's a masterful example of modern propaganda.

First, our dear Gen Lee portrays Ragnarok under attack. Here, he casts Bama, TOP and IRON as shadowy agent provocateurs, smearing the just and honorable relation of Ragnarok. For you see, in public relations, sympathy is almost always cast with the defender, and with the increasing role of public relations within the politics of Planet Bob, one must always make sure to convincingly play the victim in order to get broader support.

Secondly, he demands that the accusing party provide the proof. Now, this seems perfectly reasonable, but it's also a ploy. You see, there's a much simpler solution - he clearly knows what the initial reparations were and could merely show us right here and right now and that would be that. But there's always a slight chance that some might see the actual initial reps as too high, causing negative feedback. And you never want negatives in a good propaganda piece.

But finally, he claims that should these unjust claims actually prove true, he shall swiftly take action to rectify it. Here again, he appeals to one's sense of justice, but again, things are not what they seem. It is all merely a shell game - there was a precisely 0% chance Ragnarok would release IRON from reparation payments before and there is a precisely 0% chance Ragnarok would release IRON from reparation payments now. But the point is that there is an appearance that you might just free them from their reparations, even if you are just tauntingly jingling the keys to the prison cell right in front of the captive prisoners.

So bravo, good sir, I would recommend this to anybody new to playing the PR game on Planet Bob. You risk nothing (except perhaps people like me calling you out on it) and gain a broader support base.

Or would you perhaps like to prove that this is not just some big bit of bravado?

While your post does bring up multiple great points, I'm sure gen_lee didn't spend hours about this thread. His posting style is to be blunt and call people out on their mistakes. He was getting flak from bama for initial reps, he knew the real answer, but he called bama out to see what would happen.

[Sadinoelus]

While your post does bring up multiple great points, I'm sure gen_lee didn't spend hours about this thread. His posting style is to be blunt and call people out on their mistakes. He was getting flak from bama for initial reps, he knew the real answer, but he called bama out to see what would happen.

I don't deny he has a legitimate grievance - what I can't stand is that there's a layer of bollocks placed right over it. All he needed to do was post that there were incorrect claims on what the initial reparation statements were, and prove why said claims were wrong. He didn't need to pull a useless stunt he has no commitment to fulfill.

[mykep]

-snip-

You put time and effort into a post about analyzing a post that didnt put in as much time in effort as yours. Bravo.

I don't deny he has a legitimate grievance - what I can't stand is that there's a layer of bollocks placed right over it. All he needed to do was post that there were incorrect claims on what the initial reparation statements were, and prove why said claims were wrong. He didn't need to pull a useless stunt he has no commitment to fulfill.

He tried what you said, and it came to this. Thank you for paying attention to the matter at hand.

I will chew my own foot if noone replies after me.

[ponken]

First of all, I'm glad this mess got sorted out.

But I wouldnt define the criticism against the false reparatinos as "smearing" as that indicates that the people involved did that intentionally for harming Rok and were in fact aware that the number wasnt true. They got the information from a trustworthy, albeit drunk, source.

Though I dont know if you knew that it was LM that was the origin, or atleast partly, but if you did then I cant see why you would use the word, unless you wanted to smear the people involved.

Unless, of course, you have another definition of the word.

Btw, it seems like LM betrayed TOP

edit: Damn, I would like to see someone chew their own foot

Edited May 29, 2009 by Ponken

[Sadinoelus]

You put time and effort into a post about analyzing a post that didnt put in as much time in effort as yours. Bravo.

He tried what you said, and it came to this. Thank you for paying attention to the matter at hand.

I will chew my own foot if noone replies after me.

The time spent on the post is completely irrelevant to the point. And if you would care to point out the nice, big, shiny post with the prominent topic title where he proclaimed to the world what the exact starting reparations were to prove these claims wrong, I would be most appreciative.

[ChairmanHal]

I was (am) drunk. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

Huhuh! I was in the right!

Yes, absolutely in the right!

I certainly was in the right!

You was definitely in the right. that geezer was cruising for a bruising!

Yeah!

Why does anyone do anything?

I don't know, I was really drunk at the time!

I was just telling him, he couldn't get into number 2. he was asking

Why he wasn't coming up on freely, after I was yelling and

Screaming and telling him why he wasn't coming up on freely.

It came as a heavy blow, but we sorted the matter out

First thing I thought of....

[mykep]

The time spent on the post is completely irrelevant to the point. And if you would care to point out the nice, big, shiny post with the prominent topic title where he proclaimed to the world what the exact starting reparations were to prove these claims wrong, I would be most appreciative.

The exact amount isnt needed, several people at the discussion pointed out the intial reps werent what others claimed them to be. Actually, everytime someone brought up how terrible they were, they were told "No." How many times does someone who was there to tell someone that wasnt there they were wrong? I'd rather figure out the licks to the center of a tootsie pop.

[Bodvar Jarl]

Can we throw eggs now?

[Sadinoelus]

The exact amount isnt needed, several people at the discussion pointed out the intial reps werent what others claimed them to be. Actually, everytime someone brought up how terrible they were, they were told "No." How many times does someone who was there to tell someone that wasnt there they were wrong? I'd rather figure out the licks to the center of a tootsie pop.

So the answer is to call people smear artists and show off a bunch of meaningless bravado? I think being less vague on what the terms actually were might resonate better.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Sadinoelus

[mykep]

So the answer is to call people smear artists and show off a bunch of meaningless bravado? I think solid proof might resonate better.

Yes, but I do believe that it was very meaningful bravado. If it had no significance, you wouldnt keep commenting on it. Also, the only ones who needed to provide proof were the people who wanted to smear. They had no evidence, and went on spreading accusations.

Edited May 29, 2009 by mykep

[ChairmanHal]

The exact amount isnt needed, several people at the discussion pointed out the intial reps werent what others claimed them to be. Actually, everytime someone brought up how terrible they were, they were told "No." How many times does someone who was there to tell someone that wasnt there they were wrong? I'd rather figure out the licks to the center of a tootsie pop.

The real numbers have already been stated.

Oh and Mr. Owl confirmed that it takes 3 licks to get to the center of a tootsie pop many years ago.

Whether reparations should have been asked for at all is a completely separate topic, but as for the amounts, no question that rumors weren't on the same planet as what was actually being talked about. Topic dead.

[ponken]

the only ones who needed to provide proof were the people who wanted to smear. They had no evidence, and went on spreading accusations.

Show me proof that they did it out of a desire to smear and not because they have gotten false information.

[mykep]

Mr. Owl was wrong, although thank you Hal.

[Sadinoelus]

Yes, but I do believe that it was very meaningful bravado. If it had no significance, you wouldnt keep commenting on it. Also, the only ones who needed to provide proof were the people who wanted to smear. They had no evidence, and went on spreading accusations.

I'm calling it meaningless because it was meaningless - there was zero chance of anything actually changing with regards to IRON.

They might stop if there was more to go on than bits and rumors.

EDIT: Thanks, Hal.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Sadinoelus

[mykep]

Show me proof that they did it out of a desire to smear and not because they have gotten false information.

Smearing is any reputation-damaging activity. If you are going to spread something about someone, its smearing either way. Fact it was false just makes it lie.

[mykep]

I'm calling it meaningless because it was meaningless - there was zero chance of anything actually changing with regards to IRON.

there really isnt any meaningful bravado, so why not drop the meaningless?

They might stop if there was more to go on than bits and rumors.

They should stay the @#$% out of peoples buisness in the first place. Usually helps unless your an e-lawyer. Thank god we have none of those.

[Sadinoelus]

there really isnt any meaningful bravado, so why not drop the meaningless?

I'm calling it meaningless to emphasize my distaste for it. Entire point of adjectives.

They should stay the @#$% out of peoples buisness in the first place. Usually helps unless your an e-lawyer. Thank god we have none of those.

Curiosity may kill the cat, but the cat will never kill curiosity.

[crushtania]

LiquidMercury does it so right it hurts. Kudos to being humble enough to accept that he was in the wrong. I am proud to call him an ally and a brother.

[mykep]

^^^

True, but not many are as awesome as you

I'm calling it meaningless to emphasize my distaste for it. Entire point of adjectives.

Curiosity may kill the cat, but the cat will never kill curiosity.

Lovely. Moo point is Moo, though.

Anyone who gets that reference gets karma points

Edited May 29, 2009 by mykep