I hate GGA drama

[WarriorConcept]

So, can I sign MK's petition to steamroll GGA now?

[TehChron]

So, can I sign MK's petition to steamroll GGA now?

I would love a link to that.

[KinKiac]

If it's as you say, why would Moo then need to tell GGA?

The fact of the matter is, as verified by mhawk and Moo, unless they're both lying which I find doubtful, Moo only told ironchef after mhawk told him.

Why would it be un likely that 2 close allies would lie together? Im not calling into question either mhawk or moo's integrity, just the plausibility of them conspiring together. Why would that be unlikely?

Its funny that pansy tells DeSceptor off for being an $@! in the assiest way a man can talk. Rule number 1 dont talk down to your allies.

And you shouldnt be such condescending !@#$%^&* to the poor GGA guys, sure they mess up but Karma can be a !@#$%*.

lol, so Im not the only one who saw that. Looked like someone was taking things way too seriously.

[

Just look at the motives here to see who is lying:

GGA: Throw NPO under the bus, get good PR, show their new independence, and put a stop to the latest GGA coup.

NPO: Get GGA back in the war because they are awesome fighters and the war will totally change if they come back in.

While I do agree that looking at the motivations of each party are a better way of looking at things then obsessing over timestamps, I do disagree with the assumption that these are the only possible motivations. These are the ones that are easily seen, but who says there isnt some other reason for moo to want mess with GGA? Maybe the fact that he doesnt trust the new Gov (shaneprice/deceptor) and really doesnt care if they are thrown to the dogs. If they go back to war, and get destroyed or end up disbanding, then that is one less alliance NPO has to worry about turning on them. Also it might make some members who were supporting shaneprice/deceptor gov, to rethink their position and who they support giving more power to KFH and SWR (and more members)in their new GGA. Shaneprice had previously displayed a dislike for NPO and a willingness to cut ties with NPO. I personally think NPO has a very strong interest in keeping GGA as an ally, but only if their Gov is friendly. They can not be sure what Deceptor and Shaneprice might do, them 2 making up the majority in the trium.

All this is really just grabbing at straws but I just wanted to illustrate, for those accepting of the quoted motivations that GGA had more motivation to lie, that these are not necessarily the true motivations of each party involved and NPO might very well have more to gain in lying then GGA.

Either way I love the drama around here.

[TehChron]

All this is really just grabbing at straws but I just wanted to illustrate, for those accepting of the quoted motivations that GGA had more motivation to lie, that these are not necessarily the true motivations of each party involved and NPO might very well have more to gain in lying then GGA.

Either way I love the drama around here.

No they didn't. Under any circumstances.

At all.

Point invalidated.

[WarriorConcept]

Why would it be un likely that 2 close allies would lie together? Im not calling into question either mhawk or moo's integrity, just the plausibility of them conspiring together. Why would that be unlikely?

I think you'd also be calling into question their intelligence level. Who in the world would want GGA back in the war on their own side?

[MercyFallout]

For the love of God GGA, why don't you all just pack up and disband? It would save us all a bunch of headaches.

[Haflinger]

mhawk has a selfish reason to not want the GGA back in the war. TPF aren't going to get peace until the NPO does; if a GGA re-entry had an impact at all (I doubt it would), it would be to delay the end of the war.

Suggesting he's conspiring in order to increase the amount of damage TPF takes is ... well lol.

[Coven]

mhawk has a selfish reason to not want the GGA back in the war. TPF aren't going to get peace until the NPO does; if a GGA re-entry had an impact at all (I doubt it would), it would be to delay the end of the war.

Suggesting he's conspiring in order to increase the amount of damage TPF takes is ... well lol.

I love you Haf.

[Bob Janova]

if a GGA re-entry had an impact at all (I doubt it would), it would be to delay the end of the war.

Not that I really buy the conspiracy theories myself, but can you explain your reasoning here? I don't see that it would have any effect at all, but if you are deluded enough to think that there is still leverage on the Hegemony side then you would expect the extra damage to shorten Karma's resolve.

[TehChron]

Not that I really buy the conspiracy theories myself, but can you explain your reasoning here? I don't see that it would have any effect at all, but if you are deluded enough to think that there is still leverage on the Hegemony side then you would expect the extra damage to shorten Karma's resolve.

More nations to beat the hell out of.

You're welcome.

[Londo Mollari]

I never supported the "other GGA." They asked for advice; I told them to talk between themselves as well as to degenerate108 who was trying to have both sides meet and compromise and do what they felt was right; shaneprice has those logs. The reality is that they were both illegally removed as it violated the charter; ironchef herself admitted this and said it was ok because it had been done before. In my mind, it was too messed up on both sides and everyone needed to talk and work it out.

I withheld the identity of the source so I could check with him to see if he had a problem with my revealing it; he didn't and so I eventually told shaneprice.

There is no convincing someone who doesn't want to be convinced; the reality is you were played. No harm, no foul in that—it happens. When someone is lying about something I said or did, you're damned right I will be out to defend myself.

And with this, I am done arguing about this. You believe what you will; stay close to GGA and you will eventually see with whom you are dealing.

Yeah I'm through with this as well. I don't see what motive ironchef would have had to make this up and cause all this frikken drama, so, if you didn't start this, I have no idea how it got started (unless it really just was people panicking over a miscommunication, in which case XD XD XD XD XD oh god oh god why did I have to get dragged into it). Either way, we do still have a war on, my good cow, in which both sides are at this point staring each other down, assuming the other side will give in first. That's much better drama than this has turned out to be, no matter how you slice it.

[TehChron]

Yeah I'm through with this as well. I don't see what motive ironchef would have had to make this up and cause all this frikken drama, so, if you didn't start this, I have no idea how it got started (unless it really just was people panicking over a miscommunication, in which case XD XD XD XD XD oh god oh god why did I have to get dragged into it). Either way, we do still have a war on, my good cow, in which both sides are at this point staring each other down, assuming the other side will give in first. That's much better drama than this has turned out to be, no matter how you slice it.

You didn't get dragged into it, you embraced the issue with your eyes wide open.

The only person you have to blame for things turning out like this is yourself.

[KinKiac]

No they didn't. Under any circumstances.

At all.

Point invalidated.

Umm...ok? That is more of an opinion dont you think? Also, why?

mhawk has a selfish reason to not want the GGA back in the war. TPF aren't going to get peace until the NPO does; if a GGA re-entry had an impact at all (I doubt it would), it would be to delay the end of the war.

Suggesting he's conspiring in order to increase the amount of damage TPF takes is ... well lol.

That's it though. GGA re-entering the war would have no impact on TPF or NPO IMO. It just prolongs GGA's curbstomp. How does that prolong TPF's war? If GGA has already been beaten, they are not helping either side, and are rather insignificant in the big picture. When people are ready to give NPO terms it is going to matter not if GGA is still fighting.

I really dont see how either of these posts invalidates the logic in my original post. I may be wrong, I am not claiming not not be missing some info that would change my opinion, but just that neither of these posts provides that. If the NPO supports the newest coup(that of SWR and KFH) then they do have reason to mess with and discredit shaneprice, ironchef, deceptor and anyone else who is supporting them.

What I see is not any benefit in this war, but rather the possible war that is coming after this. One in which NPO and TPF are going to be looking to exact revenge. Having loyal GGA members under the control of friendly gov members seems in their best interests.

Or..... Im just talking out my @$%, dont really know whats going on and should just stop posting now, lol. I just tend to question the motives of someone who comes out and immediately does a multi post log dump in the OP. It just seems like a lot of effort to prove the reasons behind mhawk's decisions, when in the past, no log dumps were necessary and the people who did log dump were called out for it. Why not just say GGA got couped, yet again, thats it, we're done.

[TehChron]

Or..... Im just talking out my @$%, dont really know whats going on and should just stop posting now, lol. I just tend to question the motives of someone who comes out and immediately does a multi post log dump in the OP. It just seems like a lot of effort to prove the reasons behind mhawk's decisions, when in the past, no log dumps were necessary and the people who did log dump were called out for it. Why not just say GGA got couped, yet again, thats it, we're done.

First bold because of Second.

Im going to assume you have no idea what you waded into, and should just throw up your hands and walk away. Put simply: GGA and Athens started the logdumping, this thread is mhawks response which invalidates the claims made in the initial logdump.

[shahenshah]

GGA needs to disband already. This is getting stupid.

Are you out of your mind? Who is going to provide the lulz then?

I have supported GGA in all the lulz they pulled all this time...because say what you want about them...they were our allies and they honored the treaties they have signed.....up until this illegal change of govt (coup)...I got bit cautious about GGA...and then they pull this. Absolutely amazing. I persnally would not mind the change of foreign policy that this illegal setup within GGA advocates.

[astronaut jones]

Are you out of your mind? Who is going to provide the lulz then?

I have supported GGA in all the lulz they pulled all this time...because say what you want about them...they were our allies and they honored the treaties they have signed.....up until this illegal change of govt (coup)...I got bit cautious about GGA...and then they pull this. Absolutely amazing. I persnally would not mind the change of foreign policy that this illegal setup within GGA advocates.

It's just, what do they expect to do? Do they think that people are ever going to take them seriously again? Do they think they can actually make a difference to where people can say "gga..." and the immediate reaction isn't a snicker and a shaking of the head?

This is like CDS all over again. This is WORSE than CDS all over again.. do people not remember the CDS drama? the constant changes in leadership? the coup attempts?

Edited May 27, 2009 by astronaut jones

[shahenshah]

noo..but what about the drama?

Its not like they're harmful, they're only damaging themselves, not something I'd like but its something only they can fix when all is said and done.

[Londo Mollari]

You didn't get dragged into it, you embraced the issue with your eyes wide open.

The only person you have to blame for things turning out like this is yourself.

Pretending that I am the one at fault here, considering that everyone involved here has been in a war for over a month and I have a few other issues occupying my attention as well, and apparently NPO, TPF, and GGA couldn't be bothered reading GGA's terms of surrender and instead whipped their "allies" up into a frenzy over a bogus supposed terms violation, merely serves to show that your one true loyalty lies to the New Pacific Order.

It has been noted by more than just me.

[TehChron]

Pretending that I am the one at fault here, considering that everyone involved here has been in a war for over a month and I have a few other issues occupying my attention as well, and apparently NPO, TPF, and GGA couldn't be bothered reading GGA's terms of surrender and instead whipped their "allies" up into a frenzy over a bogus supposed terms violation, merely serves to show that your one true loyalty lies to the New Pacific Order.

It has been noted by more than just me.

Then perhaps the NPO should get the memo? I didn't do this for them. I did this because honestly, you started a !@#$storm without knowing what was going on. If your only defense is to accuse me of being an NPO plant, then quite frankly, you fail stupendously at this whole "PR" thing.

Im not the one who made a large logdump consisting mostly of idle speculation on my part and GGA's part about how the NPO was planning to betray GGA, and then present my own speculation as some kind of undeniable proof of the plot.

If you had issues on your plate, you wouldn't have bothered with the OP to begin with.

You fail, and fail hard.

[Londo Mollari]

Then perhaps the NPO should get the memo? I didn't do this for them. I did this because honestly, you started a !@#$storm without knowing what was going on. If your only defense is to accuse me of being an NPO plant, then quite frankly, you fail stupendously at this whole "PR" thing.

Im not the one who made a large logdump consisting mostly of idle speculation on my part and GGA's part about how the NPO was planning to betray GGA, and then present my own speculation as some kind of undeniable proof of the plot.

If you had issues on your plate, you wouldn't have bothered with the OP to begin with.

You fail, and fail hard.

NPO was certainly interfering in GGA's internal affairs, and as regards the question of trying to get them to attack us, were either deliberately malicious in their intent or criminally stupid for not reading the terms.

You might want to talk to NPO, or GRAN, or even my own alliance members if you think I don't have a lot on my plate. I did what I did because based on all the evidence I had, I judged it to the the right thing to do.

You and the other NSO members who are going to bat for NPO like it's still your alliance are really just pretty damned transparent in who you are. Have a nice day!

[The Corrupt Teacher]

I don't think even Ochocinco can save you now.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

You didn't get dragged into it, you embraced the issue with your eyes wide open.

The only person you have to blame for things turning out like this is yourself.

I told Londo the same thing he's just such a loving guy that takes in beaten and abused strays like the GGA shame on you Londo shame on you for trying to help out a dying alliance and get justice on planet bob.

[TehChron]

NPO was certainly interfering in GGA's internal affairs, and as regards the question of trying to get them to attack us, were either deliberately malicious in their intent or criminally stupid for not reading the terms.

You might want to talk to NPO, or GRAN, or even my own alliance members if you think I don't have a lot on my plate. I did what I did because based on all the evidence I had, I judged it to the the right thing to do.

You and the other NSO members who are going to bat for NPO like it's still your alliance are really just pretty damned transparent in who you are. Have a nice day!

You keep saying you're leaving, yet keep replying. Must be due to the fact we're actually correct and you realize the need to hit back.

In regards to the bold:

Congratulations on pointing out the obvious. NPO meddling in the affairs of their closest sycophants for the past 3 years?

Well, Zoinks! That is quite a shock and scandal. Good detective work there, Scoob.

[Ogaden]

You and the other NSO members who are going to bat for NPO like it's still your alliance are really just pretty damned transparent in who you are. Have a nice day!

I love this so much I'm sigging it for later.

[Vhalen]

I think from this point on, discussing minutes and seconds in a log dump should be a legitimate CB across all of Planet Bob.

Time passes more slowly deeper in a gravity well. What if one of these parties were below sea level, and the other on a high mountain? Discuss.

*ducks and covers*

[Duncan King]

Well, I now have a headache. Thank you GGA! Excuse me while I go get some genuine Zenithian Advil.

This is one stinking he said she said and I don't blame TPF for canceling. It also illustrates why it's bad to even consider getting involved in your ally's internal affairs.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Duncan King