IRON Surrenders

[Nizzle]

yes because one member, who's not gov, and has a deep-rooted history with IRON, is upset with the terms they received clearly means Valhalla has not changed at all.

It's starting to get ridiculous now, can we just have one thread where our peace terms don't get brought up? please?

That would be impossible.

We should have just had you all send over a few slots of tech, then it wouldn't be the peace terms fault if you don't change.

[pezstar]

yes because one member, who's not gov, and has a deep-rooted history with IRON, is upset with the terms they received clearly means Valhalla has not changed at all.

It's starting to get ridiculous now, can we just have one thread where our peace terms don't get brought up? please?

When one of your members who happily cheered on your government as they offered absurdly harsh and punitive "peace" terms in the past comes around whining about an ally having to pay reparations, you can bet your life that he's going to get a talking to by those who have been on the receiving end Valhalla's bullying in the past. So no. We'll drop it when you folks drop the hypocrisy.

[Nizzle]

When one of your members who happily cheered on your government as they offered absurdly harsh and punitive "peace" terms in the past comes around whining about an ally having to pay reparations, you can bet your life that he's going to get a talking to by those who have been on the receiving end Valhalla's bullying in the past. So no. We'll drop it when you folks drop the hypocrisy.

I fail to see the hypocrisy, but that's just me.

[Tygaland]

I fail to see the hypocrisy, but that's just me.

Yes, it is.

[Nizzle]

Yes, it is.

STA is currently held responsible for thier members actions on the OWF? As in, anything an STA member says on the OWF becomes de facto policy of STA?

Interesting. Unless, that isn't the case. Then I don't see the hypocrisy.

[Tygaland]

STA is currently held responsible for thier members actions on the OWF? As in, anything an STA member says on the OWF becomes de facto policy of STA?

Interesting. Unless, that isn't the case. Then I don't see the hypocrisy.

I believe she was referring to Bill n Ted's hypocrisy.

Seeing as he quite vocally took delight in the the terms meted out to alliances back in August/September it is quite hypocritical of him to now cry foul when an alliance he is friendly with gets terms that are far less than those he celebrated.

If you don't consider that hypocrisy then it is just you.

[President Obama]

I believe she was referring to Bill n Ted's hypocrisy.

Seeing as he quite vocally took delight in the the terms meted out to alliances back in August/September it is quite hypocritical of him to now cry foul when an alliance he is friendly with gets terms that are far less than those he celebrated.

If you don't consider that hypocrisy then it is just you.

I am not disagreeing with you, however it is possible there has been a wide change of opinion in Bill n Ted's thinking. Who knows, stranger things have happened. People can change.

Edited May 26, 2009 by President Obama

[KingSuck]

I believe she was referring to Bill n Ted's hypocrisy.

Seeing as he quite vocally took delight in the the terms meted out to alliances back in August/September it is quite hypocritical of him to now cry foul when an alliance he is friendly with gets terms that are far less than those he celebrated.

If you don't consider that hypocrisy then it is just you.

well actually;

1- the time-lag means it's quite possible his opinion on such practices has changed

2- at the end of the day it would be double standards, not hypocricy

semantics aside; congrats on peace once again IRON

[der_ko]

I fail to see the hypocrisy, but that's just me.

You fail to see a lot of things. Maybe you need glasses?

[Teriethien]

I am not disagreeing with you, however it is possible there has been a wide change of opinion in Bill n Ted's thinking. Who knows, stranger things have happened. People can change.

Yeah, being on the receiving end for once does that to people.

[Peppermint_Pig]

It's a relief to see that this particular conflict has come to an end. Congratulations on obtaining peace terms, IRON.

I hope that everyone involved takes time to consider the destructive toll of this conflict and measure it against their goals, both personal and alliance-wide. May the devastation of global nuclear conflict weed out the inclination towards future violence. I seek no reparations from this conflict and hope that everybody recovers in a timely fashion.

o/

[Tygaland]

I am not disagreeing with you, however it is possible there has been a wide change of opinion in Bill n Ted's thinking. Who knows, stranger things have happened. People can change.

I guess I will be proven wrong when he slams one of Valhalla's allies for taking reps should they win a war in the future. His words tend to betray the fact that such a change in attitude is unlikely. The whole, threatening 3 times the reps business...

[pezstar]

I am not disagreeing with you, however it is possible there has been a wide change of opinion in Bill n Ted's thinking. Who knows, stranger things have happened. People can change.

Perhaps you missed the post that prompted this bit of discussion. Flip back a page or two. It's the one where Bill n Ted says

Suck it up IRON. When the next war comes around you can always make sure your on the opposite side. Personally Id settle for triple previous reps, with 6 weeks of eating nukes prior to any surrender being accepted I think IRONs in a strong position all things considered.

The next war will be fun. You may get your goodies out of IRON right now but I really really hope it plays out my way in the long run. Next time IRON wont be on the loosing side, I cant wait to see the outcome of that.

Karma, what goes around comes around smile.gif

[Haflinger]

We didnt ask Teen Titans to not request reps, they did so voluntarily, as a sign of good will. For which we are grateful.

IPA, ARES, and ToH are in Teen Titans, and received reps. I think you have this statement backwards.

[Dr. Dan]

Glad to see this finally happen IRON. Best of luck.

[Roadie]

I see the hypocrisy clear as day. When someone states that Karma is for this or that, Karma members proclaim, ratheer loudly, that no Karma gov member has said they were for this, that or the other thing, but when a non gov hegemony member says something, several Karma members come out and say it's proof that Valhalla hasn't changed.

[Wargarden]

Those terms are the kind of thing that makes wars fun again in CN.

Good show IRON for standing up and fighting and good show to KARMA for trying to bring reasonable terms back into fashion.

o/ allies

o/ noble enemies

[Haflinger]

KingSuck's complaint is not that people were criticizing Bill n Ted's analysis of IRON's reps, that's obviously OK because he commented in the thread.

KingSuck was complaining that people were suggesting Bill n Ted's view represents Valhalla's position, without any other support from any Valhalla posters. If chefjoe comes in here and complains about IRON reps, then you've got an argument to make about Valhalla, but especially given BnT's long relationship with IRON, I think it's fair to say his views on IRON are best treated as being individual views, not alliance views.

Or, put another way - when Heft supports BnT, you guys don't say it's a sign that NSO's official position is supporting BnT. The irony here being that of course Heft is a Dark Lord of the Sith, while BnT is just a regular Valhalla member, and doesn't represent Valhalla's official position any more than HeinousOne represents the STA's official position.

[Heft]

KingSuck's complaint is not that people were criticizing Bill n Ted's analysis of IRON's reps, that's obviously OK because he commented in the thread.

KingSuck was complaining that people were suggesting Bill n Ted's view represents Valhalla's position, without any other support from any Valhalla posters. If chefjoe comes in here and complains about IRON reps, then you've got an argument to make about Valhalla, but especially given BnT's long relationship with IRON, I think it's fair to say his views on IRON are best treated as being individual views, not alliance views.

Or, put another way - when Heft supports BnT, you guys don't say it's a sign that NSO's official position is supporting BnT. The irony here being that of course Heft is a Dark Lord of the Sith, while BnT is just a regular Valhalla member, and doesn't represent Valhalla's official position any more than HeinousOne represents the STA's official position.

I'm a "Sith Lord", Ivan is "Dark Lord."

Otherwise yea.

Also nowhere did BnT actually say reps were bad, just that he expects IRON to more than get them back at some point down the line. Which is an entirely different statement and not really hypocritical according to what has been said.

[Ejayrazz]

When one of your members who happily cheered on your government as they offered absurdly harsh and punitive "peace" terms in the past comes around whining about an ally having to pay reparations, you can bet your life that he's going to get a talking to by those who have been on the receiving end Valhalla's bullying in the past. So no. We'll drop it when you folks drop the hypocrisy.

What he means is valid: BnT doesn't represent Valhalla. As Heinous doesn't represent your alliance (I love him btw, make him Minister of Flame Stroking), as I do not represent mine.

Though, what YOU are saying is true, just on a different sub note.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Ejayrazz

[King Srqt]

KingSuck's complaint is not that people were criticizing Bill n Ted's analysis of IRON's reps, that's obviously OK because he commented in the thread.

KingSuck was complaining that people were suggesting Bill n Ted's view represents Valhalla's position, without any other support from any Valhalla posters. If chefjoe comes in here and complains about IRON reps, then you've got an argument to make about Valhalla, but especially given BnT's long relationship with IRON, I think it's fair to say his views on IRON are best treated as being individual views, not alliance views.

Or, put another way - when Heft supports BnT, you guys don't say it's a sign that NSO's official position is supporting BnT. The irony here being that of course Heft is a Dark Lord of the Sith, while BnT is just a regular Valhalla member, and doesn't represent Valhalla's official position any more than HeinousOne represents the STA's official position.

I think the key thing you need to look at here is which Valhalla member is talking. I have very rarely if ever seen BnT's viewpoint not match that of Valhalla in the time he has been a member of the alliance. I hope this is the exception rather than the rule and that he is not spouting the true thoughts of Valhalla, considering his history with IRON I do see it as plausible.

[Matthew Conrad]

KingSuck's complaint is not that people were criticizing Bill n Ted's analysis of IRON's reps, that's obviously OK because he commented in the thread.

KingSuck was complaining that people were suggesting Bill n Ted's view represents Valhalla's position, without any other support from any Valhalla posters. If chefjoe comes in here and complains about IRON reps, then you've got an argument to make about Valhalla, but especially given BnT's long relationship with IRON, I think it's fair to say his views on IRON are best treated as being individual views, not alliance views.

Or, put another way - when Heft supports BnT, you guys don't say it's a sign that NSO's official position is supporting BnT. The irony here being that of course Heft is a Dark Lord of the Sith, while BnT is just a regular Valhalla member, and doesn't represent Valhalla's official position any more than HeinousOne represents the STA's official position.

Yes, but every member still represents their alliance in some way. Even if he isn't a government member, he still brings the stigma of his words to his alliance and anyone blind to that is ignorant at best. For example, if a member of an alliance came on here and started to flame everyone, his alliance would be thought less of if they just let it continue without having a word with him. Granted, it may not be fair to the alliance overall but it's how it works. Everyone's an ambassador of their alliance when they interact in public. That being said, some other Valhalla posters have been relatively agreeable overall as of late so take that how you will.

[fireguy15207]

IPA, ARES, and ToH are in Teen Titans, and received reps. I think you have this statement backwards.

He was referring to the talks about reps we had. Rok wasn't willing to let their smaller allies walk away damaged without some sort of repayment.

[519 Nigras]

For the same reason that paying a fine for vomiting on the nice police officer’s shoes after he notices you stumbling from those bushes outside the bar is meant as a token of penitence, rather than filling the city’s treasure chest, IRON agrees to acknowledge “you win, we lose” by paying a total of 20,000 technology and $1,500,000,000 in reparations to Ragnarok; and 2,500 technology each to the International Protection Agency, Ascended Republic of Elite States, The Order of Halsa, and Royal Order of Confederate Kingdoms.

The Grämlins, Farkistan, Mostly Harmless Alliance, and Fifth Column Confederation consider the IRON nations’ hospitality during this conflict payment enough and request no additional repartitions.

i.e Everyone other than RoK and IPA and a few others wanted reps.

Suck it up IRON. When the next war comes around you can always make sure your on the opposite side. Personally Id settle for triple previous reps, with 6 weeks of eating nukes prior to any surrender being accepted I think IRONs in a strong position all things considered.

The next war will be fun. You may get your goodies out of IRON right now but I really really hope it plays out my way in the long run. Next time IRON wont be on the loosing side, I cant wait to see the outcome of that.

Karma, what goes around comes around

I have a slot open if you want to start early.

[Kevin McDonald]

He was referring to the talks about reps we had. Rok wasn't willing to let their smaller allies walk away damaged without some sort of repayment.

Ah ha! This entire mess is Rok's fault.