Official Announcement from The Order of the Paradox

[Delta1212]

So our reps are being justified on the reps we did not take?

Instead of listing the reps of other alliances...why don't you list the reps that IRON took...and the ones for which IRON *paid* for and the ones which IRON *waivered* Airme and Delta.

If your primary reason is reps for being part of Q at those times, then may I suggest you look at your own roster list first Karma.

You yourself are using MK's reps to justify the reps on us...the same reps you whined around for a long time...as far as IRON is concerned...Karma is worst off than Hegemony taking in to account our own past actions and reps specifically related to IRON.

But you're giving example of MK right...did those reps stopped MK from reaching in position to where it is now? did those reps help the alliances that took it? When all was said and done, it didn't. It only created a bitter and smarter enemy for NPO.\

I hope Citadel will not be a part of enabling such behaviors... wasn't these the same very reasons(or related) you apparently fought against.

These are the terms IRON are getting, well bubye NPO? You guys better stay firm and put in Peace mode.

You're completely missing the point. RIA has never accepted rep payments before. We've still had to pay reps during wars we've lost. We aren't fighting against the idea of reps. We're fighting against extortion. MK's reps from the NoCB war equated to 9.9 slots per member in order to pay off. The IRON reps on the table translate to 3.3 slots per member. That's 1/3 the size of MK's reps when adjusted for size, ignoring the effects of inflation completely. Per member, your reps aren't huge. They are pretty average. You could pay them in a month.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Delta1212

[President Obama]

*Attempting to steer back on topic*

I know how hard a decision this was for you to make TOP. However, I am pretty sure it was the right one.

[Mack Truck]

So our reps are being justified on the reps we did not take?

Instead of listing the reps of other alliances...why don't you list the reps that IRON took...and the ones for which IRON *paid* for and the ones which IRON *waivered* Airme and Delta.

If your primary reason is reps for being part of Q at those times, then may I suggest you look at your own roster list first Karma.

You yourself are using MK's reps to justify the reps on us...the same reps you whined around for a long time...as far as IRON is concerned...Karma is worst off than Hegemony taking in to account our own past actions and reps specifically related to IRON.

But you're giving example of MK right...did those reps stopped MK from reaching in position to where it is now? did those reps help the alliances that took it? When all was said and done, it didn't. It only created a bitter and smarter enemy for NPO.\

I hope Citadel will not be a part of enabling such behaviors... wasn't these the same very reasons(or related) you apparently fought against.

These are the terms IRON are getting, well bubye NPO? You guys better stay firm and put in Peace mode.

Like Delta said, it isn't about association - gotta disagree with you AirMe - it's merely comparison. If IRON were to pay 3b&50k it would be well within your means, moreso than MK's was.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

Look, I'm sorry to be a party-pooper, but can you lot take your discussion about reparations somewhere else please? Thank you.

Also, good luck in the future, Pacifica.

[Derwood1]

Yeah the reps need to be discussed elsewhere....good show TOP!

[AirMe]

Yeah the reps need to be discussed elsewhere....good show TOP!

OOC: Working on it.

IC: I agree with your assessment.

[Schattenmann]

To be honest, we were waiting until the end of the war to cancel in respect of the history the treaty has as our first mutual defense pact, even though most of us had come to agree that we should drop it right after the war started. However, eventually, there were enough people asking 'why wait?' for us to cancel it now instead of later.

I was asking a year ago.

Schattenmann, TOP trendsetter.

Also you guys need to add me to the big members image. You can't bury me!

[Ejayrazz]

Anyone insulting IRON - do know they aren't as terrible as some of you believe. They in fact have caused headaches to some alliances and also caused massive damage to other ranks. Grämlins have had 6-8 people leave which is where most of our lost NS comes from, we have done excellent in this war but we do nothing but study - study warring techniques, economics, etc.

The reason IRON is taking so much damage, considerably, is because mostly due to FARK, RoK, and Grämlins. Without one of them, this war would be entirely different. It would be interesting to see where IRON goes after this war, after all their pals have screwed them over and I feel NPO have put them through enough - enough you say? You wouldn't know, somethings are allowed to be discussed at this moment.

I love IRON, good job in this war. Sorry to post this, but the topic got off a bit but this should be known.

As for TOP, they also have lost a good friend. Should be a reminder you can be the strongest in the game but with terrible diplomacy your alliance can be ruined.

o/ TOP

o/ IRON

Edited May 22, 2009 by Ejayrazz

[The Poet]

But you're giving example of MK right...did those reps stopped MK from reaching in position to where it is now? did those reps help the alliances that took it? When all was said and done, it didn't. It only created a bitter and smarter enemy for NPO.\

I'll have you know those reps helped foster a deep and meaningful relationship that has lasted to this very day. Do not doubt the strength of our bond merely because we are only bound by PIAT. The reason we (read: Karma, not MK.. We're not fighting IRON) wish to burden IRON with such monstrous reps is because we want to get to know you better, and as most of us have been under the boot of the hegemony for the past two years we're all a tad confused as to how this whole diplomacy thing works - I'm afraid we've only got your example to follow, you see? I hope you now see the error of your arguments, and rejoice in the fact that:

KARMA LOVES YOU

[The Warrior]

Anyone insulting IRON - do know they aren't as terrible as some of you believe. They in fact have caused headaches to some alliances and also caused massive damage to other ranks. Grämlins have had 6-8 people leave which is where most of our lost NS comes from, we have done excellent in this war but we do nothing but study - study warring techniques, economics, etc.

The reason IRON is taking so much damage, considerably, is because mostly due to FARK, RoK, and Grämlins. Without one of them, this war would be entirely different. It would be interesting to see where IRON goes after this war, after all their pals have screwed them over and I feel NPO have put them through enough - enough you say? You wouldn't know, somethings are allowed to be discussed at this moment.

I love IRON, good job in this war. Sorry to post this, but the topic got off a bit but this should be known.

As for TOP, they also have lost a good friend. Should be a reminder you can be the strongest in the game but with terrible diplomacy your alliance can be ruined.

o/ TOP

o/ IRON

Thank you for those words Ejay.

It will be interesting to see what comes of the dissolution of this treaty.

[Master Hakai]

Good work, TOP.

[The Warrior]

Yes, even though we are on the opposite side in this, I still consider them very good friends. I know they still feel the same way also.

o/ TOP

o/TOP!

IRON is kind of useless being completely decimated and all.

Lol. Tell me another.

Don't underestimate us.

This.

Forgive my ignorance in all of this but IRON although "decimated" is in a very good position in this war. Its up against two alliances that want white peace (which are strategically larger and more important alliances - which have taken more "collateral" damage) and the hangers on, FARK, RoK and a few other ankle biters that are looking for stupid reps from an alliance which lacks the inclination or will to pay.

Whilst Im sure MHA and Gramlins have achieved their objectives in regards to IRON I wonder how long they will be willing to be part of a "coalition" of alliances that are attacking IRON. If for example MHA and Gramlins decided that they no longer wanted to be a part of extortionate reparation bids by alliances that whilst attacking IRON are not taking comparitive damage or indeed abusing thier position as minor (in the grand scheme of things) alliances to get reps whilst the big boys take the damage.

As I have been stating from the outset of this war; its going to be a steep learning curve for some alliances that think that they can demand reparations from any alliance that has the ability and resolve to maintain a protracted nuclear conflict with little damage to their membership numbers. Id hope that more learnered alliances would be wise enough to know that IRON is no pushover; it has the nations with cash, MP's and WRC's, it has the membership that will resist absurd terms.

The question is (and here comes the one liner ) do FARK, RoK and associated ankle biters have the same resolve and cash flow to carry on?

This.

[Gen Lee]

Forgive my ignorance in all of this but IRON although "decimated" is in a very good position in this war. Its up against two alliances that want white peace (which are strategically larger and more important alliances - which have taken more "collateral" damage) and the hangers on, FARK, RoK and a few other ankle biters that are looking for stupid reps from an alliance which lacks the inclination or will to pay.

Whilst Im sure MHA and Gramlins have achieved their objectives in regards to IRON I wonder how long they will be willing to be part of a "coalition" of alliances that are attacking IRON. If for example MHA and Gramlins decided that they no longer wanted to be a part of extortionate reparation bids by alliances that whilst attacking IRON are not taking comparitive damage or indeed abusing thier position as minor (in the grand scheme of things) alliances to get reps whilst the big boys take the damage.

As I have been stating from the outset of this war; its going to be a steep learning curve for some alliances that think that they can demand reparations from any alliance that has the ability and resolve to maintain a protracted nuclear conflict with little damage to their membership numbers. Id hope that more learnered alliances would be wise enough to know that IRON is no pushover; it has the nations with cash, MP's and WRC's, it has the membership that will resist absurd terms.

The question is (and here comes the one liner ) do FARK, RoK and associated ankle biters have the same resolve and cash flow to carry on?

All night long baby.

[Systemfailure]

The question is (and here comes the one liner ) do FARK, RoK and associated ankle biters have the same resolve and cash flow to carry on?

ahem.

To: Olias From: Systemfailure Date: 5/22/2009 1:41:06 AM

Subject: Nuclear Attack

Message: Your nation has been attacked with nuclear weapons by Systemfailure. You lost 4390 soldiers, 73 defending tanks, 0 cruise missiles, 46.064 miles of land, 17.712 technology, 151.213 infrastructure, 75% of your aircraft, and 25% of your nuclear vulnerable navy force. In addition to these losses your nation will experience many days of economic devastation.

i can keep doing this all day long..im not bored of IRON just yet

NPO on the other hand.. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!

[Starcraftmazter]

It's about damn time. I don't know why alliances like Gremlins and TOP ever allied with the NPO, or thought it was a good idea to still be allied with them, for so damn long.

[Starfox101]

Sounds like what I've been saying all along.

[Fulgrim]

Also you guys need to add me to the big members image. You can't bury me!

Yeah. And we'll add jagged fell aswell

Sincerely, best of luck to NPO in the future.

[Bodvar Jarl]

It's about damn time. I don't know why alliances like Gremlins and TOP ever allied with the NPO, or thought it was a good idea to still be allied with them, for so damn long.

TOP would not be what we are without NPO at our side for so long. We both have gained a lot on our relationship, that is how it started, that is how it ended, friendship came out of it, but eventually eroded away, and when the strategical benefits no longer could hold it together, a certain catalyst was sufficient for the bonds to shatter.

Perhaps we could have cancelled a few weeks earlier, perhaps we could have waited a few more weeks, does that really matter?

Eventually, I think we decided that no, it does not, so better to just be done with it.

Nothing lasts forever, but there has been two and a half years that where mostly good.

[Sun WuKong]

Drawers are being lined, or something like that....

[HellAngel]

And we did both with about 150 members....not 600.

EDIT:

<MagicalTrevor> MK paying 800mil with 150members, was 5.3mil each

<MagicalTrevor> IRON paying 3bil with 600 members, is 5mil each

Ah and here i was thinking these reps intention was rebuilding and not punishment.

[Blue Lightning]

Probably less than the 600 million we had to pay out a year and a half ago and the 82k tech we had to pay out 8 months ago.

And you still haven't stopped crying about it. Think of how annoying IRON government's whines are going to be in a couple of years time if they are forced to pay the same reps (proportionately). I figure the threat of having IRON government completely derailing every thread they post in for the next two years with sobs about how they have been oppressed in the past by the evil Karma despots should be reason enough to offer light terms.

I hope those at war with IRON don't make the same mistake NPO did. For the sake of the OWF's tissue supplies.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Blue Lightning

[jer]

I hope Citadel will not be a part of enabling such behaviors... wasn't these the same very reasons(or related) you apparently fought against.

Is this an attempt to cause tension within Karma? Trying to play one group off another in an attempt to get easier terms doesn't endear you to anyone.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Aimee Mann

[The Poet]

And you still haven't stopped crying about it. Think of how annoying IRON government's whines are going to be in a couple of years time if they are forced to pay the same reps (proportionately). I figure the threat of having IRON government completely derailing every thread they post in for the next two years with sobs about how they have been oppressed in the past by the evil Karma despots should be reason enough to offer light terms.

I hope those at war with IRON don't make the same mistake NPO did. For the sake of the OWF's tissue supplies.

Oh I like you.

[shahenshah]

Is this an attempt to cause tension within Karma? Trying to play one group off another in an attempt to get easier terms doesn't endear you to anyone.

Many in Karma didn't sign up for extortion and settling unrelated scores. Tensions in Karma? Like Nemesis trolling our good allies TOP or how Kronos was being trolled by their Karma allies? Karma is so wide there will always be inherent tensions...but there is a limit on how much the alliances will be willing to compromise their principles to stay gelled together...and on top of that, get trolled. You are lucky to have alliances like TOP, MHA and Gre on your side, not only do they make up the most effective of your military force in quality and quantity, they are also most patient with many of your dramas. These are the alliances that made the difference needed to win between both the sides. Least all of you can do is listen and not ignore their views.

Anyway, I wont be dignifying anymore off-topic discussion in TOP's thread. Airme and Delta, can kindly follow on to CZ's thread. I apologize for any previous off-topic posts TOP.

Good Luck and I hope in future NPO and TOP can look forward to repair the relations.

Edited May 22, 2009 by shahenshah

[jer]

As if you give a damn about the intricate moral issues involved in deciding the terms All you're doing is trying to stir things up amongst your enemy in order to get a sweeter deal at the end of the war. I can't imagine attempting to manipulate them in this way is going to help your cause.