Joint TOP/TSO Announcement

[Blacky]

I haven´t seen you questioning the extended protectorate between STA and NSO (around 2.5 mio ns too) just days ago. Or do you want to imply that Ivan, can`t handle his ally and the fa of it and therefore need an protector?

The circumstances are very different in these two cases. One of which being a newly founded alliance from a leader which left digiterra welcoming in a host of nations from across digiterra. It is expected that after the boom of new membership due to the novelty of it all, there will be a period where it wears off and they're just another part of world politics. TSO on the other hand already had a foundation of government and leaders who were on the same page in terms of thinking and their desired positioning. The circumstances are very different, much like the posturing which lead to difficulty in the Citadel's founding of CTC, Ivan's alliance would be welcomed similarly by those who wish to test their resolve. Whereas TSO only have the faces which they spat in to deal with and surely nobody should intervene in this fair and just process.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Blacky

[Alterego]

I am a mean spirited person, I like ridiculing others and pointing out their mistakes - it makes me feel big and important, it distracts me from the things lacking in my life - for example: a soul.

I once thought TOP were the greatest alliance on Bob. The personal insults made by their members, their arrogance and total disdain of people outside of TOP are fairly shocking. The great alliance I once thought you were is long dead or was just a PR exercise. The free speech you are so proud of seems to be a one way road and only open to TOP members as a tool to criticise your allies. When you come under the same criticism your real colours come to light.

[Urmom]

I believe that is what we call a Temporary MDP, not a protectorate.

I'm not really here to debate definitions and such, just thought I'd ask. Our protectorate expires in 40 days, would you not see that as a temporary MDP as well? This is how I see it essentially. While I'm no longer a member of TOP's heptagon and can't vote on treaties, I'd see this extension as a "We know you messed up, you know you messed up. We still like you but want to give you more time to prove yourselves to decide if we want to cut formal relations or sign a MDP."

I once thought TOP were the greatest alliance on Bob. The personal insults made by their members, their arrogance and total disdain of people outside of TOP are fairly shocking. The great alliance I once thought you were is long dead or was just a PR exercise. The free speech you are so proud of seems to be a one way road and only open to TOP members as a tool to criticise your allies. When you come under the same criticism your real colours come to light.

Maybe you've never seen SomeGuy post, but he's not really being serious...

Edited March 19, 2009 by Urmom(U)

[Neuromancer7]

The circumstances are very different in these two cases. One of which being a newly founded alliance from a leader which left digiterra welcoming in a host of nations from across digiterra. It is expected that after the boom of new membership due to the novelty of it all, there will be a period where it wears off and they're just another part of the treaty web. TSO already had a foundation of government and leaders who were on the same page in terms of thinking and their desired positioning. The circumstances are very different, much like the posturing which lead to difficulty in the Citadel's founding of CTC, Ivan's alliance would be welcomed similarly by those who wish to test their resolve. Whereas TSO only have the faces which they spat in to deal with and surely nobody should intervene in this fair and just process.

My apologies to the relevant people, you know who you are.

How strange that all these people ran to join him from other alliances? This is just as, if not more, valid a case for "OMG Alliance poaching" as was made against TSO. I would ask those of you who are not a part of the "Yapping Dog Brigade" To consider that. And the likely reasoning behind why nobody seems to have made such outlandish accusations.

I'm not claiming that what NSO may or may not have done was alliance poaching. Only that if we had done the exact same thing we would have been accused of such. Because the Yapping Dog Brigade will interpret anything that TSO say's or does in the way that casts us in the worst light. And they do no such thing for NSO or Moldavi

But, I'm quite certain that one of the self important morons heading the troll squad, who I still prefer to call the Yapping Dog Brigade" will be MORE then happy to explain to me how these two situations are ENTIRELY different. I'm completely wrong, and how Vox's excrement smells of roses.

Edit !@#$ --> Excrement for flavor and readability purposes. And, No, that's not evading the filters. Look up linguistics, especially the relevance of literal meaning in the usage of swear words.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Neuromancer7

[Vilien]

But, I'm quite certain that one of the self important morons heading the troll squad, who I still prefer to call the Yapping Dog Brigade" will be MORE then happy to explain to me how these two situations are ENTIRELY different. I'm completely wrong, and how Vox's excrement smells of roses.

Speaking of self-important morons...

The difference is that you were the leadership for a large alliance, and you bailed on all of your members. It is evident that you actively recruited from the upper ranks of your alliance. Ivan Moldavi didn't remove the leadership of any alliance intentionally. He didn't even remove the leadership from any alliances. Frankly, Ivan showed a lot of class and TSO made itself look like a group which had no respect for its comrades in MCXA.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Vilien

[Gurney Halleck]

I make it a habit to avoid commenting negatively on another alliance's decisions unless those decisions affect me or my alliance adversely. While I hold no one in ill regard who chooses to do so, I do not understand the allure. Strikes me as curious. An errand with little payoff. As always, your mileage may vary.

With that, I would simply add that I appreciate our friends who - while they may not understand or necessarily agree with this decision - have concluded that TOP knows what is best for TOP or have approached us on our forums to sate their curiously.

Cheers.

[Feanor Noldorin]

I once thought TOP were the greatest alliance on Bob. The personal insults made by their members, their arrogance and total disdain of people outside of TOP are fairly shocking. The great alliance I once thought you were is long dead or was just a PR exercise. The free speech you are so proud of seems to be a one way road and only open to TOP members as a tool to criticise your allies. When you come under the same criticism your real colours come to light.

Calm down big guy.

SG was just messing around.

[Schattenmann]

Who remembers what happens when people from opposite sides of the web start calling each other out and shedding diplomatic language? Anyone?

TOP attacks them over a year later after the offending person(s) have already left.

[Bob]

My apologies to the relevant people, you know who you are.

How strange that all these people ran to join him from other alliances? This is just as, if not more, valid a case for "OMG Alliance poaching" as was made against TSO. I would ask those of you who are not a part of the "Yapping Dog Brigade" To consider that. And the likely reasoning behind why nobody seems to have made such outlandish accusations.

I'm not claiming that what NSO may or may not have done was alliance poaching. Only that if we had done the exact same thing we would have been accused of such. Because the Yapping Dog Brigade will interpret anything that TSO say's or does in the way that casts us in the worst light. And they do no such thing for NSO or Moldavi

But, I'm quite certain that one of the self important morons heading the troll squad, who I still prefer to call the Yapping Dog Brigade" will be MORE then happy to explain to me how these two situations are ENTIRELY different. I'm completely wrong, and how Vox's excrement smells of roses.

Edit !@#$ --> Excrement for flavor and readability purposes. And, No, that's not evading the filters. Look up linguistics, especially the relevance of literal meaning in the usage of swear words.

This was a smart thing to post. I am sure NSO will love to reply to it, so I will not.

I'm not really here to debate definitions and such, just thought I'd ask. Our protectorate expires in 40 days, would you not see that as a temporary MDP as well? This is how I see it essentially. While I'm no longer a member of TOP's heptagon and can't vote on treaties, I'd see this extension as a "We know you messed up, you know you messed up. We still like you but want to give you more time to prove yourselves to decide if we want to cut formal relations or sign a MDP."

You good sir, make me angry. Stop being so civil and such a nice guy. I respect your line of thinking, and that's how I am viewing it as well. I just am attempting to encourage the right side on that issue to prevail.

As I have stated before, I have the upmost of respect for TOP as an alliance. I hope that TOP will detach themselves from TSO and continue on their affairs as usual.

[Corinan]

My apologies to the relevant people, you know who you are.

How strange that all these people ran to join him from other alliances? This is just as, if not more, valid a case for "OMG Alliance poaching" as was made against TSO. I would ask those of you who are not a part of the "Yapping Dog Brigade" To consider that. And the likely reasoning behind why nobody seems to have made such outlandish accusations.

I'm not claiming that what NSO may or may not have done was alliance poaching. Only that if we had done the exact same thing we would have been accused of such. Because the Yapping Dog Brigade will interpret anything that TSO say's or does in the way that casts us in the worst light. And they do no such thing for NSO or Moldavi

But, I'm quite certain that one of the self important morons heading the troll squad, who I still prefer to call the Yapping Dog Brigade" will be MORE then happy to explain to me how these two situations are ENTIRELY different. I'm completely wrong, and how Vox's excrement smells of roses.

Edit !@#$ --> Excrement for flavor and readability purposes. And, No, that's not evading the filters. Look up linguistics, especially the relevance of literal meaning in the usage of swear words.

Hmmmm.

Yes, well I don't know who you are but I already know that I dislike you. Please refrain from bringing up the New Sith Order in the future. We're of no interest to you, and vice versa.

[Blacky]

How strange that all these people ran to join him from other alliances? This is just as, if not more, valid a case for "OMG Alliance poaching"

I think most of us noticed this right away, but do you not see the two contradictory statements in there? Or is this a case of the dictionary not thinking that word means what you think it means?

Because they will interpret anything that TSO say's or does in the way that casts us in the worst light.

I'm going to try and cast it in the best possible light.

MCXA's government nicely plotted leaving their alliance and forming a new one with great intentions. Due to their good nature they have also taken the burden of ridding MCXA of their most active members and the majority of their electorate. Which they played a friendly game of "tricked you!" with, by not informing them they intended to leave.

Nope, it still is what it is. You guys spat in the faces of those who put faith in you. Also if the allegations in this thread are true of meddling with MCXA's forums, as if doing what you have openly admitted too wasn't enough, would make you the most vulgar and disgusting break away alliance in the history of digiterra.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Blacky

[Neuromancer7]

This is a Simple Clarification on my previous post.

I thought I made it clear, my apologies, I clearly did not.

I am NOT trying to claim that the New Sith Order has done anything wrong. I have nothing but respect for them as a whole, and for many of their members.

I am merely stating that NSO is not on the Yapping Dog Brigade's attack list, and therefore everything they say is NOT being deliberately, misinterpreted in the most damaging way possible.

If they were in our shoes, and I would not wish anyone else a day in our shoes, they would have gotten something like the heat we did. Due to OTHERS Deliberately misinterpreting what they're saying. As is being done to the TSO on a constant basis.

[Poyplemonkeys]

The point being they were clever enough not to get themselves in your position, deserved or not.

[Corinan]

This is a Simple Clarification on my previous post.

I thought I made it clear, my apologies, I clearly did not.

I am NOT trying to claim that the New Sith Order has done anything wrong. I have nothing but respect for them as a whole, and for many of their members.

I am merely stating that NSO is not on the Yapping Dog Brigade's attack list, and therefore everything they say is NOT being deliberately, misinterpreted in the most damaging way possible.

If they were in our shoes, and I would not wish anyone else a day in our shoes, they would have gotten something like the heat we did. Due to OTHERS Deliberately misinterpreting what they're saying. As is being done to the TSO on a constant basis.

Thank you for the clarification.

[Schattenmann]

All this banging on about truth and honesty is a bit rich, coming from you.

Very good. I like when my argument is so sound that a goon is forced to act like one and attack my character rather than address the argument.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Schattenmann

[Schattenmann]

This is a Simple Clarification on my previous post.

I thought I made it clear, my apologies, I clearly did not.

I am NOT trying to claim that the New Sith Order has done anything wrong. I have nothing but respect for them as a whole, and for many of their members.

I am merely stating that NSO is not on the Yapping Dog Brigade's attack list, and therefore everything they say is NOT being deliberately, misinterpreted in the most damaging way possible.

If they were in our shoes, and I would not wish anyone else a day in our shoes, they would have gotten something like the heat we did. Due to OTHERS Deliberately misinterpreting what they're saying. As is being done to the TSO on a constant basis.

This is simply silly because everyone knows that the circumstances surrounding NSO are completelu different than those of TSO.

And the biggest difference of them all is that if Tygaland found out that NSO had been lying to him or manipulating him, or that NSO is spying on NPO or anyone else, then Tygaland would act like a man and cancel the protectorate. Not keep up a secret MDP.

[Bob Janova]

The NSO and TSO situations are fundamentally different. You're just making yourself look bad by trying to compare them like that. I don't want to turn this into another copy of the initial thread (because I have great respect for TOP) and I don't think you do either.

Edit: Schatt, 'secret MDP'? What? This is a public thread, is it not?

Edited March 19, 2009 by Bob Janova

[Firestorm]

I understand your frustration, and wish you all the best of luck in resolving it.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Firestorm

[Schattenmann]

Edit: Schatt, 'secret MDP'? What? This is a public thread, is it not?

With a misleading title.

edit hell, they even declared war to try and draw attention off

Edited March 19, 2009 by Schattenmann

[Joe Kremlin]

With a misleading title.

We hoped people would read more than the title.

[Schattenmann]

We hoped people would read more than the title.

You give the average reader more credit that I.

[logan1]

please dont slap MCXA in the face anymore.

we have turned the other cheek so many times my head is spinning.

just let us hide in our hole until our so called friends decide to start slapping other AAs around who only turn cheeks when spat upon.

o/ TOPFAIL

o/ TSOFAIL

o/ to everyone who truely can see what is happening in broad day light!

[Blacky]

We hoped people would read more than the title.

A protectorate has never meant mutually obligated defence, has never meant a protectorate.

If you intend to misuse words then it is not the fault of those who point it out. You would expect that after this long some people would have taken the time to learn the difference between a protectorate and an MDP.

[President Obama]

With a misleading title.

edit hell, they even declared war to try and draw attention off

That is not the reason that they declared war on FreakSafari.

[Sephiroth]

A protectorate has never meant mutually obligated defence, has never meant a protectorate.

If you intend to misuse words then it is not the fault of those who point it out. You would expect that after this long some people would have taken the time to learn the difference between a protectorate and an MDP.

I've seen it done before, so not really anything new here. Of course that won't stop people from complaining about this despite it having nothing to do with the majority of the people doing the complaining. Does it matter what TSO and TOP choose to call their treaty? Not really, but I guess some here need something to pointlessly complain about all day.