Trouble at the MCXA?

[Neuromancer7]

All it takes to leave an alliance "properly" is to post in the resignation thread, which I believe members of TSO have done before leaving.

Whether they are government members and some of them decide to create a new alliance after that is completely irrelevant. Nowhere is writen that they need to ask for permision to leave and make their own alliance.

MCXA should rather work on solving the internal problems to prevent such things from happening in the future, rather than screaming foul and trying to discredit(or even attack?) people simply because they came to the conclusion that their future is not in MCXA but somewhere else.

Unless those TSO members have sent recruitment messages to MCXA nations, any talk about "treason" or " recruiting from MCXA" is a waste of time and has nothing to do with reality.

Common sense and logic clearly have NO place here. Sadden's me to say it, but it's rapidly becoming a self evident fact.

[Jphillips412]

Seems like this thread has given people many new heroes.

I would have to agree with you

[Poobah]

Seems like this thread has given people many new heroes.

You good sir are my hero.

[Power]

Most of you on these boards do not know who I am and I prefer to keep it this way. Unfortunately, I feel I need to come out of the shadows and say a few things before I slip back into them. I am somewhat of a new nation at only 444days compared to some of you so please bear with me. Also my grammar and spelling are something to be desired so I apologize in advance.

I am finding it hard to understand what the main argument is. It appears that some of you have problems with a select few of the people that have started this alliance. The reason I say this is most that are bashing the TSO are people that would also bash MCXA in the past. With the exception of a few, let me say it again A FEW MCXA nations, most nations in the MCXA have accepted that we have left and do not hold a grudge. I cant remember what day it was Saturday or Sunday Gopher wrote a speech before we left that the doors are open and we could come back if ever we wanted to. Is this something that you would do if we “screwed” them over by just up and leavening? Another thing that most of you, other then MCXA, don’t know is that almost all of us gave a resignation thread around a week in advance. On mine, I was asked why I don’t just leave now and not wait till Sunday. I had to explain that I wanted to stay around and help in anyway that I could, also if anyone felt that I needed to leave before Sunday that they could unmask me and I would understand. Well, no one did.

I’m not sure what else to say other then with the exception of a FEW MCXA members, not many have posted on the boards about how bad we did them. I don’t know how most of you, as outsiders, can say that we did the alliance wrong. You weren’t there…

I thank all of you for reading this but don’t bother to ask questions of me because I would rather dip back into the shadows and watch. Thank you for your time.

o/ MCXA

o/ TSO

Power of Thunder

[King Srqt]

just hope everyone realizes that 90% of the people who stayed either were inactive up until this point or have only been in the MCXA for a short while. And all the people slandering the TSO are people who hardly know any of the people who left.

In order for their to be slander there needs to be lying, please point me to all the lying you are talking about.

All it takes to leave an alliance "properly" is to post in the resignation thread, which I believe members of TSO have done before leaving.

Whether they are government members and some of them decide to create a new alliance after that is completely irrelevant.

So you are saying it is perfectly ok for people to bail on the commitment they make to an alliance when they accept a seat in that government? I was under the impression that breaking commitments was a bad thing.

But I guess common sense and logic clearly have NO place here right Neuromancer?

Edited February 27, 2009 by KingSrqt

[theArrowheadian]

I think the big thing many people are missing is the difference between what people say in public to ease tensions and how they actual feel and what they say in private.

[Neuromancer7]

In order for their to be slander there needs to be lying, please point me to all the lying you are talking about.

So you are saying it is perfectly ok for people to bail on the commitment they make to an alliance when they accept a seat in that government? I was under the impression that breaking commitments was a bad thing.

But I guess common sense and logic clearly have NO place here right Neuromancer?

Clearly.

But don't blame me... I didn't make that rule.. I just noticed it's constant application.

[shahenshah]

I'm bit confused about something...no internal recruitment occurred as claimed, but I read somewhere Fresh and Gopher were 'invited'.

This looks like a contradiction or maybe I got my information bit wrong which is definitely possible in 59 pages of drama. I apologize in advance if its the later.

[General Specific]

I'm bit confused about something...no internal recruitment occurred as claimed, but I read somewhere Fresh and Gopher were 'invited'.

This looks like a contradiction or maybe I got my information bit wrong which is definitely possible in 59 pages of drama. I apologize in advance if its the later.

Yep, saw that, too. You must be ex-Polar or Vox for having the nerve to say this, amirite?

[RandomInterrupt]

I'm bit confused about something...no internal recruitment occurred as claimed, but I read somewhere Fresh and Gopher were 'invited'.

This looks like a contradiction or maybe I got my information bit wrong which is definitely possible in 59 pages of drama. I apologize in advance if its the later.

At least one TSO member actually flat out said they recruited from within the MCXA. It's quite a few pages back now.

[Lord Boris]

OOC: The more I read of this thread, the more I believe TSO is CN's version of Roland Burris.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Lord Boris

[Dochartaigh]

All it takes to leave an alliance "properly" is to post in the resignation thread, which I believe members of TSO have done before leaving.

Whether they are government members and some of them decide to create a new alliance after that is completely irrelevant. Nowhere is writen that they need to ask for permision to leave and make their own alliance.

MCXA should rather work on solving the internal problems to prevent such things from happening in the future, rather than screaming foul and trying to discredit(or even attack?) people simply because they came to the conclusion that their future is not in MCXA but somewhere else.

Unless those TSO members have sent recruitment messages to MCXA nations, any talk about "treason" or " recruiting from MCXA" is a waste of time and has nothing to do with reality.

there seem to be several points you are missing.

point 1) TSO was already planning the new alliance long before leaving.

point 2) members planning on leaving to go to TSO, took gov positions 1 week prior to leaving. The least they could have done was not take position except for as advisors, this way an intact gov would have been left behind.

point 3) TSO did not tell anyone in MCXA what was going on except for 2 members. Thus, despite knowing they would leave MCXA, there was no members set up to take over the gov positions the TSO members abandoned.

point 4) they actively recruited from within MCXA. There were messages sent inviting members to TSO. hence why only 40 or so members knew about it.

point 5) MCXA is trying to solve internal issues. Issues left to them when 90% of their gov got up and walked out.

point 6) TSO has basically outright lied several times throughout this thread. going from, all of MCXA knew of TSO to only a couple of members knew and the GA found out after it was leaked to them.

point 7) almost all of the TSO members have left their alliance due to selfish reasons, including not being appreciated enough because membership wanted their gov to be more transparent.

[Delta1212]

Common sense and logic clearly have NO place here. Sadden's me to say it, but it's rapidly becoming a self evident fact.

You've yet to adequately address any real points that have been brought up in this thread in a consistent manner. In fact, you've blatantly contradicted posts by other members of TSO. Here, I'll lay out the problems so you can address them all and we can move on:

TSO claims to have been open with MCXA about its plans, that the initial plans were to slowly filter out and that things were sped up when the plans were leaked. First, having your plans leaked would mean you weren't open about them. Changing your plans as soon as they are found out means you were never actually open about your initial plans and only about the ones you formulated after being thrust into the public scrutiny of the alliance. You have also personally stated that the plan was never at first to slow leave the alliance and come together later. The questions here: Which story regarding the initial plan is correct? How long was the plan kept secret from the membership at large before being exposed? How do you resolve the contradiction between saying you were up front with your intentions with the fact that the plan was only outed by an invitee with second thoughts rather than by the architects? Why was it necessary to leave immediately instead of remain

It has been asserted that TSO had an amicable parting with MCXA and helped them make a smooth government transition. It is apparent by Doc Fresh's post as well as those of several MCXA members that MCXA harbers a great deal of ill-will over the whole affair. TSO also admits to speeding up the process of departure and removing almost the entire government of MCXA with only a single week's notice. The questions: Why pretend that MCXA was supportive of you when they are apparently not? How could you have affected a smooth transfer of an entire government without replacements in a single week? Why didn't the leadership in question simply remove themselves from the reelection process? Why was it necessary to leave immediately instead of remaining behind long enough to ensure replacemetns were found for an orderly transition period?

There have been several complaints of recruiting from within the ranks. A good point has also been brought up that members in te process of filtering out prior to forming TSO joiined other alliances udner false pretenses with no intentions of actually remaining their and without informing the alliances in question ahead of time that they would not be staying. Your rebuttal of the first point was that you simply heard of the plan and asked to be invited. The questions: If the plan in question was not made known to the public at large, how did any of the significant number of participants find out without being invited? If they were told but not invited, why were only those specific people that all happened to join informed instead of everyone? Do you believe that joining another alliance for the sole reason of waiting for something elese to start up without informing the leadership that your loyalties lie elsewhere is proper conduct?

Can I get answer to those for starters?

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

Fair enough, I read a few posts prior where you communicated to us that TOP's Council was in receipt of new information, which led to that mistaken assumption. My apology there.

No, my apologies for the miscommunication. What I meant was that our Government (Council) has passed on some new information to the rank and file of TOP (the General Assembly) and we are waiting for more information at the moment. There are a number of discussions relating to this matter presently underway at our boards and I'm sure when our government has shared whatever they discover with us, they will also share it with you (as per Dr Dan's post from last night).

Edit: Unnecessary verbosity.

Edited February 27, 2009 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[shahenshah]

Yep, saw that, too. You must be ex-Polar or Vox for having the nerve to say this, amirite?

I'm in IRON since day 1 and thats where I'll end.

Regarding the nerve? I don't know what it has to do with my personal opinions.

I am guessing you're thinking I must stick to 'party-line' or something or i'll be kick.banned or something...thats not how any alliance in Q operates. You probably allowed yourself to be manipulated by huge piles of propaganda and lies built on one-off seldom/rare events. Contrary to what failed & wannabe revolutionaries may tell you..its not how we operate.. in fact its quite the opposite, thats why Q alliances have the highest amount of members.

Edited February 27, 2009 by shahenshah

[Gofastleft]

I think the big thing many people are missing is the difference between what people say in public to ease tensions and how they actual feel and what they say in private.

Never thought I would say this in public, but this man knows what he is talking about.

Having been in leadership when a group decided to leave I know you sometimes have to bite your tongue to keep the drama lama from growing to big.

[lewistothezor]

Out of curiousity do TSO have any intentions of apologising to the Alliances they hid out in without revealing their true intentions?

Edited February 27, 2009 by lewistothezor

[General Specific]

I'm in IRON since day 1 and thats where I will be. I don't know what it has to do with having nerve. You probably believe everything Vox tells you about Q alliances.

I was not taking a swipe at you at all, but rather having fun with the assertions that anyone who posts questions about TSO must harbor Vox or Polar allegiances. I'd never join either and found it fun to answer sarcastically.

edit: addition: Thank you for the update, Umar. I like your style and appreciate being taken seriously as an unaligned nobody.

Edited February 27, 2009 by General Specific

[Delta1212]

I think you mean TSO.

[KingEd]

Clearly.

But don't blame me... I didn't make that rule.. I just noticed it's constant application.

How do Senior Govt members of any alliance excuse the fact that what they did was borderline destructive to their alliance and its membership?, and then claim they have the best intentions for their alliance at heart. It's honestly the most BS I've heard in a while. I agree that everyone must pursue their happiness and that's what most of you said within your resignation threads, but all 40+ of you simultaneously is BS as well, and even worse, concealing from the GA the fact that you were all planning to leave. Furthermore how can you deny "recruiting" from within the alliance ? I have seen people with no more than 30 post, that have not posted in ages, resign out of the blue and join TSO. I respect all TSO members, not their actions, what happened less than a week ago was not only appalling, it was completely unexpected, and destructive. If you got tired of all the crap that was going on, why not change it ? Isin't that what Government is for ? Is that not why I vote every 2 months ?

And for those who said that you were planning to leave in April, in a slow manner, but your plans got ruined, save the BS. If you really did care you would have not left at all, instead you just giving us a Resignation on the 17th: Effective Sunday <3 ya crap acting like it was all fun and giggles while you knew more than 90% of Government was going to resign, something that would obviously devastate the alliance.

-KingEd

Any answers ?

[lewistothezor]

Whoops, Yeah TSO

[King Srqt]

I'm in IRON since day 1 and thats where I'll end.

Regarding the nerve? I don't know what it has to do with my personal opinions.

I am guessing you're thinking I must stick to 'party line' or something or i'll be kick.banned or something...thats not how any alliance in Q operates. You probably allowed yourself to be manipulated by huge piles of propaganda built on one-off seldom/rare events.

He was being sarcastic since it is a common diversion tactic of some people to yell vox at anything that is not flattering to them. It was not an attack on you.

[Freelancer]

Depends how u look at it really

Considering TSO is invite only u could have only joined them in 1 of 2 ways. Either you were a loyal member of USN and got invited to join TSO which is Poaching or you were always planning to leave and were just using us a shield which in my book is spying.

Considering Arvili had to be kick/banned from our members channel after he changed his AA i'm thinking it was the latter

As much as it will pain me to do this, the lil mistress of the USN does have a point, however if we look closley at what was captured last week in an open USN channel, one begs to question a few things. I'll let the log speak for it self, however my advice for the future, if your going to have pets, you should keep them on a leash, you never know when some-one who has a pitbull might be looking to see who has a bigger bite.

(6:24:28 PM) sig|usn|: hey lance

(6:25:50 PM) Lance[daBrain]: Hey sigger

(6:26:05 PM) Lance[daBrain]: Whats new

(6:26:12 PM) sig|usn|: Not much bro

(6:26:22 PM) sig|usn|: take a gander at our growth as of late

(6:26:49 PM) Lance[daBrain]: Yes I saw that. I noticed it in the CN awards thingy

(6:27:02 PM) sig|usn|: I learnt from the best

(6:27:09 PM) Lance[daBrain]: bull crap

(6:27:10 PM) rocknraider[uSN]: CN awards?

(6:27:13 PM) rocknraider[uSN]: what's that

(6:27:15 PM) The_Black_Watch [090902m@coldfront-C07ED5BF.acadiau.ca] entered the room.

(6:27:15 PM) mode (+h The_Black_Watch) by ChanServ

(6:27:15 PM) sig|usn|: You are the best

(6:27:20 PM) rodrod[TP]: ^

(6:27:48 PM) Lance[daBrain]: http://www.cybernations.net/stats_awards.asp

(6:28:08 PM) rocknraider[uSN]: oh cool

(6:28:26 PM) Lance[daBrain]: my nipple hurts

(6:28:35 PM) rocknraider[uSN]: lol mcxa -463,022(6:28:55 PM) Lance[daBrain]: ^ why is that funny

(6:29:22 PM) rocknraider[uSN]: cuz the people that joined us came from mcxa

(6:29:24 PM) Runz|FoB [chatzilla@coldfront-37A4905B.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] entered the room.

(6:29:24 PM) mode (+v Runz|FoB) by ChanServ

(6:30:40 PM) sig|usn|: some went to other places

(6:30:42 PM) Lance[daBrain]: Someone needs some education of being diplomatic

(6:30:49 PM) Pyroman[CD]afk left the room (quit: Ping timeout).

(6:31:11 PM) rocknraider[uSN]: who me?

Edited February 27, 2009 by Freelancer

[Delta1212]

As much as it will pain me to do this, the lil mistress of the USN does have a point, however if we look closley at what was captured last week in an open USN channel, one begs to question a few things. I'll let the log speak for it self, however my advice for the future, if your going to have pets, you should keep them on a leash, you never know when some-one who has a pitbull might be looking to see who has a bigger bite.

That doesn't really seem particularly relevant to, well, anything.

[Dochartaigh]

That doesn't really seem particularly relevant to, well, anything.

sorry Freelancer, i have to agree. he stated a fact. that MCXA members went to USN. never stated that USN knew that those members would leave to join TSO as soon as it was announced.