UCR Declaration of War

[firingline]

1 hour ago, White Chocolate said:

Wolves leadership (hi Al @AL Bundy) were very well aware of our ties to GATO and also GATO’s brown team treaty.  Al may not like politics, but (unlike you apparently) Al understands them and understands how the decisions he makes effect them.  It’s about communication.  We are good allies to each other because we communicate well.  
 

CLAWS is a fine ally to Wolves and GATO and our other ally as well.  
 

Now that you are in an alliance allied again to CLAWS FL, feel free to being any further concerns to your leadership.  I am sure Al will give them exactly the attention they deserve.  

 

You have a direct defensive treaty with an alliance that was attacked (The Wolves), and a defensive treaty with an alliance that has a defensive treaty with an alliance that launched an attack.

 

These two things are not the same. They're not even close.

 

CLAWS is a bad ally, in part, because of what you highlighted. With so many treaties, CLAWS is a couple of degrees of separation from virtually every alliance. This makes them a poor ally, because they will always play the neutrality card when tough choices need to be made. Your tangled FA makes letting down your allies predictable, and it's something every ally or potential ally should be considering.

 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by firingline

[mrmarx]

2 hours ago, firingline said:

Didn't you hide in peace mode

[firingline]

Just now, mrmarx said:

 

I also note you're not sending any of your comrades any aid.

 

So much for "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Even when the stakes are as low as they are here, Communism fails.

[mrmarx]

5 minutes ago, firingline said:

You have a direct defensive treaty with an alliance that engaged in aggression (The Wolves), and a defensive treaty with an alliance that has a defensive treaty with an alliance that responded appropriately according to treaty agreements.

Fixed it for you

 

5 minutes ago, firingline said:

These two things are not the same. They're not even close.

 

[mrmarx]

2 minutes ago, firingline said:

Even when the stakes are as low as they are here, Communism fails.

If the stakes are so low, why are you so triggered about it

[White Chocolate]

1 hour ago, firingline said:

 

You have a direct defensive treaty with an alliance that was attacked (The Wolves), and a defensive treaty with an alliance that has a defensive treaty with an alliance that launched an attack.

 

These two things are not the same. They're not even close.

 

CLAWS is a bad ally, in part, because of what you highlighted. With so many treaties, CLAWS is a couple of degrees of separation from virtually every alliance. This makes them a poor ally, because they will always play the neutrality card when tough choices need to be made. Your tangled FA makes letting down your allies predictable, and it's something every ally or potential ally should be considering.

 

 

We have an optional defense/optional aggression treaty with The Wolves.  They decide to raid another alliance, which is their right and I can respect it.  However, even IF there were no other relations between CLAWS and GATO, CLAWS could say "happy hunting" and be 100% within what is required of our treaty.  Tech raiding involves risk and tech raiding alliances one knows are allied with others is something that both Al and I are familiar with enough to know the risks.  This is an entirely different situation from @AL Bundy raiding some random nation and discovering later that UCR secretly protects them.  

 

I've know Al from before I had any clue of your existence.  We are both well aware of each others positions.  Al has not expressed any concerns to me about CLAWS response.  I am sure if he had an issue, he would have expressed it to me or @Tevron LONG before you decided to bandwagon in this war via asking permission from Al to join his alliance.  

 

We all get that you supposedly do not like CLAWS, but apparently you are more than happy to complain about us not coming to your rescue now that you are involved directly.  I find that fact rather satisfying. 

 

I have a great deal of respect for Al and his willingness to make his own rules.  You don't get the same respect, though.  Where were you when this started?  You were safe and sound in NATO, that is where.  As far as I am concerned, you should consider yourself lucky that Al even allowed you to bandwagon into this war via joining his alliance.  As much as you pretend otherwise, if you did not want to take advantage of the provisions of The Wolves - CLAWS  treaty and our extended relationship beyond that, you could have just left NATO and joined the fight from your own alliance.  Since you did not chose to do that, you clearly see an advantage to the allies Al has and, knowing you, I highly doubt it's the Non Grata connection that you like.

 

 

[firingline]

15 minutes ago, White Chocolate said:

However, even IF there were no other relations between CLAWS and GATO, CLAWS could say "happy hunting" and be 100% within what is required of our treaty.

 

Yeah. We know. I'm glad that you are following the letter of the law in each of your 15+ treaties. 

 

Quote

I've know Al from before I had any clue of your existence.  We are both well aware of each others positions.  Al has not expressed any concerns to me about CLAWS response.  I am sure if he had an issue, he would have expressed it to me or @Tevron LONG before you decided to bandwagon in this war via asking permission from Al to join his alliance.  

 

I am not sure why you keep bringing up Bundy. I'm glad you two have talked and I'm glad that he understands your position. I do not speak for Bundy or TW, I speak for myself.

 

I personally think this situation highlights the exact problem with CLAWS. CLAWS will follow its (many) treaties to the letter - keeping in mind their legal ability to opt out wherever possible. Under your leadership, CLAWS tends to take a lawyer's position on things, not a friend's. Allies of CLAWS can be rest assured that CLAWS understands its bare minimum obligations under its treaties. The 'optional' portion helps a lot when you repeatedly find yourself caught up in potential conflicts because you have too many treaties and can't support either side. Which has happened repeatedly. CLAWS always seems 'conflicted' and always seems to not opt to defend.

 

As far as TW? Bundy is clearly alright with his relationship with CLAWS. I personally would not be, but I don't know the conversations you've had and I trust his judgment on that.

 

Quote

We all get that you supposedly do not like CLAWS, but apparently you are more than happy to complain about us not coming to your rescue now that you are involved directly.  I find that fact rather satisfying. 

 

So to be clear - I made my post before I joined The Wolves. I wasn't asking you to come to 'my rescue' and I'm still not. I made a choice to join this conflict to support a friend doing what I thought was right. I understand this is a foreign concept to you.

 

Quote

As far as I am concerned, you should consider yourself lucky that Al even allowed you to bandwagon into this war via joining his alliance. 

 

I consider myself very lucky. @AL Bundy is the best for letting it happen! The war's been everything I hoped it would be.

 

Quote

As much as you pretend otherwise, if you did not want to take advantage of the provisions of The Wolves - CLAWS  treaty and our extended relationship beyond that,

 

What advantage of the provisions of The Wolves - CLAWS treaty? Please be very specific of the advantages your relationship has provided to The Wolves? You've sent literally zero aid besides regular ongoing tech deals. You've not helped militarily. There are zero provisions of your treaty that I am taking advantage of under TW's banner.

 

The reason I joined under 'Al's banner' is I wanted to fight with The Wolves because they're !@#$@#$ nuts and it's a lot of fun just flinging nukes like crazy with Bundy, Malark, etc. Trust me - I knew better than to expect any benefit from CLAWS during this process.

 

Frankly, out of respect for Al, I don't think we need to continue this conversation that really started before I was a member here. I wish we had this conversation before I joined TW, but since you just now decided to try to call me out I figured I need to at least respond. In the interest of not causing Bundy any headaches, please feel free to DM me on discord if you have any further concerns as I won't be responding publicly on this issue.

[White Chocolate]

3 minutes ago, firingline said:

.

 

Frankly, out of respect for Al, I don't think we need to continue this conversation that really started before I was a member here. I wish we had this conversation before I joined TW, but since you just now decided to try to call me out I figured I need to at least respond. In the interest of not causing Bundy any headaches, please feel free to DM me on discord if you have any further concerns as I won't be responding publicly on this issue.

This is the most intelligent comment I’ve heard regarding our relationship in a very long time.  

[firingline]

2 hours ago, mrmarx said:

If the stakes are so low, why are you so triggered about it

 

I'm not 'triggered' about anything.

 

Pointing out the cowardice, greed and hypocrisy of communists is so fun I just can't resist.

 

 

[mrmarx]

29 minutes ago, firingline said:

I'm not 'triggered' about anything.

 

Pointing out the cowardice, greed and hypocrisy of communists is so fun I just can't resist.

[firingline]

9 minutes ago, mrmarx said:

 

Cute selfie.

[Kapleo]

Marx got memes. Nice!

[AL Bundy]

5 hours ago, mrmarx said:

Hahaha I like this one... 😄 funny...

 

But really for this "war" I don't see why he needed pm since everyone was in anarchy in his range but restocking nukes is acceptable pm for me...

 

If we want to make fun of them it's for sitting out of a world war. I don't care if allies say you don't need to, you get involved... but I see why they didn't fight FTW or NATO since they saved their butts from the curbstomp... I'm surprised FTW hasn't signed them since so many of them appear to be members anyway

 

Al

[AL Bundy]

3 hours ago, White Chocolate said:

This is the most intelligent comment I’ve heard regarding our relationship in a very long time.  

I knew FL had it in him... 

[Johnny Apocalypse]

18 hours ago, firingline said:

 

I also note you're not sending any of your comrades any aid.

 

So much for "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Even when the stakes are as low as they are here, Communism fails.

 

The BUTT Bank more than has the ability to provide for the financial needs of UCR, those damn communists are tricking us into re-distributing our wealth.

[Resurrected USSR]

https://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=573111

 

I'm going to just put this right here. That 30 day strength chart looking kind of rough

[AL Bundy]

57 minutes ago, Resurrected USSR said:

https://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=573111

 

I'm going to just put this right here. That 30 day strength chart looking kind of rough

So does your War Chest hahhaaha (is that a "snap" or a "burn") 

 

I'm having a hell of a time.

 

Al

[Resurrected USSR]

3 hours ago, AL Bundy said:

So does your War Chest hahhaaha (is that a "snap" or a "burn") 

 

I'm having a hell of a time.

 

Al

Lol my WC was low before the war think i only lost like 200M

 

Not nearly as bad as losing almost 100K NS and about 10K or so infra

 

having fun too tho

[kerschbs]

1 hour ago, Resurrected USSR said:

Lol my WC was low before the war think i only lost like 200M

 

Not nearly as bad as losing almost 100K NS and about 10K or so infra

 

having fun too tho

This post makes it terribly obvious that you don’t really know how this all works.

[firingline]

3 hours ago, Resurrected USSR said:

Lol my WC was low before the war think i only lost like 200M

 

Not nearly as bad as losing almost 100K NS and about 10K or so infra

 

having fun too tho

 

Oh... oh no...

[mrmarx]

On 6/11/2023 at 5:31 PM, AL Bundy said:

 I don't care if allies say you don't need to, you get involved..

 

And I don't care if Al Bundy says "get involved" - we don't wage war for war's sake. Never have, never will. The Party and the people's supreme law guides our actions, not whatever made up nonsense standards you wish to apply to us.

[firingline]

1 hour ago, mrmarx said:

 

And I don't care if Al Bundy says "get involved" - we don't wage war for war's sake. Never have, never will. The Party and the people's supreme law guides our actions, not whatever made up nonsense standards you wish to apply to us.

 

So what you're saying is you won't support your allies in the next big war.

 

You just expect them to support you.

 

I'm noticing a trend with you, Marx...

[mrmarx]

5 minutes ago, firingline said:

I'm noticing a trend with you, Marx...

 

And I'm noticing a trend with you, that being your inability to read and comprehend written words

[AL Bundy]

53 minutes ago, firingline said:

 

So what you're saying is you won't support your allies in the next big war.

 

You just expect them to support you.

 

I'm noticing a trend with you, Marx...

Leave them alone FL, they don't have the money to wage wars or defend allies hahaha... hell I thought he had a little but nope... he will be back in PM soon..... 

 

Al

[Lyanna Mormont]

14 hours ago, Johnny Apocalypse said:

 

The BUTT Bank more than has the ability to provide for the financial needs of UCR, those damn communists are tricking us into re-distributing our wealth.

 

13ish active slots, whole BUTT load for sure.