A Message from the Emperor of the New Pacific Order

[iamthey]

hold on here that post was after the Farrin walkout and apperently this is why he walked out and that is what we are discussing .. and yes i am aware there are new offers .... of course you now bring that out after this is pointed out as up til now the thread was about him walking out.

Actually I would say this thread is about how he negotiated to within a .1 difference of duration then arbitrarily reversed course before walking out again. Edited January 30, 2014 by iamthey

[Daimos]

You would be absolutely right in saying that in that brief moment, our coalition was responsible for holding peace up. For pretty much the entirety of the 'negotiating period' until then, it was Farrin holding them up. Farrin who keeps himself out of the negotiating room for days on end after his walkouts. Farrin who wasted nearly a month on the whole white peace thing when no one could have been as delusional to think that it was going through. These negotiations have been going on only two weeks now (since NPO finally decided to back off of white peace), and much progress occurred, only to be completely wiped out by Farrin three days ago.

 

To sum up: We dropped the PM term because of constant whining over lost $ from collections. That's fine, the framework of terms Farrin counterproposed were based around nations having the same restrictions, no aid in or out, as peace mode does. Since then, both sides have agreed to that framework, and have negotiated over the days. Three nights ago, Farrin proposed 1.1x, Yeru countered with 1.2x, then Farrin freaked out and decided that framework was no longer acceptable and pulled his offer, walking out of peace, again seizing the mantle of the one holding up peace. There is zero chance, had Farrin NOT walked out, that peace would not have been agreed upon that night. We were responsible for holding up peace for the brief moment between us countering with 1.2x from 1.1x, but Farrin deciding to not join the channel for two days after that, and forcing Yeru to find him in query to see where he was at, is the only thing holding peace up since. He then decided to make up an entirely new framework, one that includes tech reps, which is something I don't think anyone except Farrin is interested in and will never be considered.

 

Any deal will be centered on NPO's 30ish nations not sending any aid or receiving any for a duration of time, i.e. peace mode without the economic penalties. NPO has agreed that 1.1x the length of the war is acceptable. I'd imagine that the minute he comes back to the table with that or something like it, peace will be at hand and all of your beaten down alliances can get to work rebuilding. If he continues to throw other things out, he is just negotiating with himself, because we already know that the coalition and NPO have agreeable terms, its just on him to un-withdraw the offer. Again, the minute he decides to do that, this is all over. The burden of peace is entirely on him now, nothing else can hold things up.

 

By this statement the NpO coalition was ok with the offer of 1.1x yet felt the need to counter and tact on a 0.1x difference?  Not an expert on negotiation protocol but I think by doing so made Farrin’s offer null and void thus he had every right to not offer the same deal and counter for a totally different one if he so choose.

[Goldie]

Aren't you winning? You should be able to manage more than 8 wars over 3 months without having to stay in PM.
 
And quite a few other brief moments, as Farrin hasn't been the only one who's been sent in to deal with you!

The rest of your post is fairly accurate, but to pin everything on Farrin is pretty wild and not that valid of a strategy.

I've been a part of, and seen a lot of negotiations. I've seen more stubborn people in them, and more delusional people in them, but the only person I've seen be more stubborn while more delusional than Farrin has been is Ramirus. Our side hasn't been super effective in negotiating, but that has more to do with the fact that most on our side can afford to see this war stretch on another couple of weeks, like it has. Farrin does not have that luxury of time, those who have entered for NPO burned to the ground while he was refusing anything but white peace for 3-4 weeks. Since they've actually been haggling, millions more NS has been lost from its allies. If they decide to pursue an entirely new framework for a deal, millions more will be lost.

 

The eight day difference gets eclipsed in 2-3 days, and NPO has already been parked in the 'unheard of economic devastation of extended peace mode' for a month since they flatly rejected terms. At this point, had they haggled peace mode to 1:1 they'd be a month out from being totally done and ready to roll, and having saved themselves and their allies millions upon millions of NS in the process. None of NPO's allies, and the allies of their allies, are actually fighting to defend NPO anymore, nor are they fighting to defend them from terms. Our coalition and NPO have a framework of terms that were found agreeable. No reps, no peace mode, no humiliation, just a simulated peace mode without the 'economic devastation' for 30 or so nations who spent the last three months doing exactly that.

 

My hat is off to someone like GOD who probably went into this thinking that it would be quick, that negotiations were going, that they'd go in, defend R&R a bit, and walk out. Instead, this peace process has buried them, and they may never walk right again. Same to R&R, who entered to defend their allies in TIO and NATO, who were only in the war because they were being stubborn negotiators, which is their right. But I'm sure R&R didn't expect to get thoroughly destroyed when they entered, they too probably thought the war would be over soon after they entered, and that they wouldn't have exposed themselves and their bloc for being paper tigers in a fight that means absolutely nothing to them, all because of an alliance they aren't treatied to (NPO) can't make up their minds on what they'll accept. A coalition leader has to put his stubbornness aside on behalf of those who have lost so much for him. Farrin's stubbornness is fine, but it is his delusions that keep him from seeing that, and its truly sad.

[brucemania]

Actually I would say this thread is about how he negotiated to within a .1 difference of duration then arbitrarily reversed course before walking out again.

Now i would think it will be as now at Least Goldie cleared up something that you and a couple others were not saying .. meaning it was looking as you were spinning something from the post you made with the other numbers .. regardless it does make more sense now and with that in mind the .1 is not that big a deal but as mentioned you made that counter offer to the 1.1 in a way that is insulting and understandable you are now tweeking a .1 difference that does not really make a difference if you are true in saying there is no benefit for you. As well and correct me if i am not wrong .. we have stated them nations are for banking purposes ( I know you will argue they have acquired tech but given the climate over the last while with people leaving the game and rogueing they do need to protect themselves as well.) regardless would it have maybe been a more beneficial thing to say 1.2 and will let them nations send aid to them that have fought that way getting rid of the stigma of you penalizing the 240 whom have fought ? and maybe adding during that time they cannot receive tech there buy you get what you want they are not able to grow as you fear during that time but at least not penalizing them that fought? 

[Goldie]

 

By this statement the NpO coalition was ok with the offer of 1.1x yet felt the need to counter and tact on a 0.1x difference?  Not an expert on negotiation protocol but I think by doing so made Farrin’s offer null and void thus he had every right to not offer the same deal and counter for a totally different one if he so choose.

He has every right to withdraw his offer of 1.1x. I'd have accepted the 1.1x just to see you guys actually get to end the war, but I'm not on the NPO front so I don't make those decisions. That being said, no effort was made by Farrin to say "look guys, its .1 difference, let's just end the war now at 1.1" or to allow himself to be talked into 1.2 or somewhere in the middle. He took his lunchbox and ran home, throwing a random new peace up before leaving, one that makes no sense given how close both sides were. The war could have ended that night based around the timeframe for the original framework, and I'm sure Yeru could have been moved on that, but clearly Farrin couldn't, so the war goes on.

[Neo Uruk]

I've been a part of, and seen a lot of negotiations. I've seen more stubborn people in them, and more delusional people in them, but the only person I've seen be more stubborn while more delusional than Farrin has been is Ramirus. Our side hasn't been super effective in negotiating, but that has more to do with the fact that most on our side can afford to see this war stretch on another couple of weeks, like it has. Farrin does not have that luxury of time, those who have entered for NPO burned to the ground while he was refusing anything but white peace for 3-4 weeks. Since they've actually been haggling, millions more NS has been lost from its allies. If they decide to pursue an entirely new framework for a deal, millions more will be lost.
 
The eight day difference gets eclipsed in 2-3 days, and NPO has already been parked in the 'unheard of economic devastation of extended peace mode' for a month since they flatly rejected terms. At this point, had they haggled peace mode to 1:1 they'd be a month out from being totally done and ready to roll, and having saved themselves and their allies millions upon millions of NS in the process. None of NPO's allies, and the allies of their allies, are actually fighting to defend NPO anymore, nor are they fighting to defend them from terms. Our coalition and NPO have a framework of terms that were found agreeable. No reps, no peace mode, no humiliation, just a simulated peace mode without the 'economic devastation' for 30 or so nations who spent the last three months doing exactly that.
 
My hat is off to someone like GOD who probably went into this thinking that it would be quick, that negotiations were going, that they'd go in, defend R&R a bit, and walk out. Instead, this peace process has buried them, and they may never walk right again. Same to R&R, who entered to defend their allies in TIO and NATO, who were only in the war because they were being stubborn negotiators, which is their right. But I'm sure R&R didn't expect to get thoroughly destroyed when they entered, they too probably thought the war would be over soon after they entered, and that they wouldn't have exposed themselves and their bloc for being paper tigers in a fight that means absolutely nothing to them, all because of an alliance they aren't treatied to (NPO) can't make up their minds on what they'll accept. A coalition leader has to put his stubbornness aside on behalf of those who have lost so much for him. Farrin's stubbornness is fine, but it is his delusions that keep him from seeing that, and its truly sad.

While I do appreciate you tipping your hat to those who are fighting in our coalition - as I'm grateful they are standing with us whether they have love for us or not, I think it's quite disingenuous to say GOD "may never walk right again". Are they the GOD of old? No. But they've lost maybe 28% NS/score in this war? That's not nearly the steepest drop in their history. R&R you have a point on, but talking to them recently I have faith they'll rebound. As for paper tiger comments, they're faring well enough to keep trucking along I believe. Paper tigers can apparently beat Greek Week, at least.

But yes, it's all NPO's fault and none of the responsibility can be anyone but Farrin's, just as EQ's incompetence was all the fault of Brehon and the fact that nobody was willing to spare nations to fight Umbrella (which, I'm told, NPO was guilty of - that still doesn't absolve others of their guilt in not enforcing a term agreed upon) is irrelevant. Let's be honest, Goldie, and shred the 100% propaganda outlook. Edited January 30, 2014 by Neo Uruk

[Branimir]

Has a peace talk counterpart almost double his offer, adds 8 days to it to be dickish, then accuses the peace talk counterpart for being petulant for denying peace due to 'mere' 8 days difference he put there in the first place. Complains.

 

Nice.

[Goldie]

Now i would think it will be as now at Least Goldie cleared up something that you and a couple others were not saying .. meaning it was looking as you were spinning something from the post you made with the other numbers .. regardless it does make more sense now and with that in mind the .1 is not that big a deal but as mentioned you made that counter offer to the 1.1 in a way that is insulting and understandable you are now tweeking a .1 difference that does not really make a difference if you are true in saying there is no benefit for you. As well and correct me if i am not wrong .. we have stated them nations are for banking purposes ( I know you will argue they have acquired tech but given the climate over the last while with people leaving the game and rogueing they do need to protect themselves as well.) regardless would it have maybe been a more beneficial thing to say 1.2 and will let them nations send aid to them that have fought that way getting rid of the stigma of you penalizing the 240 whom have fought ? and maybe adding during that time they cannot receive tech there buy you get what you want they are not able to grow as you fear during that time but at least not penalizing them that fought? 

It is Farrin's prerogative to be insulted or not by a counter-offer. The way he presented it, it was not as a "let's split the difference and call it 1.1", it was presented as merely the newest negotiating target for NPO. If it was his final offer, one that he would not go past, he should have said something to the like. Again, watch how Farrin negotiates, and its a very poor style. Jumping around too much, no real coherence, he doesn't have goals in mind when he goes in, which is why after his offers get countered or rejected he runs off, because he has no idea what the next step is when he walks in and can't make it up on the fly.

 

Let's also be real about the penalty. It doesn't penalize 240 nations, or however many. It penalizes the 30 who are subject to the terms, and at most, 30 other nations on your AA, the ones that the 30 would have sent aid to. Because Farrin is assuming 100% efficiency of slots in all of his claims about damages, we can assume the same here. Those 30 nations would only be able to send enough slots out to totally cover 30 other nations (we can call it 36 and say they don't have DRA's). So that is 66 nations affected, including 36 who don't have aid. The 30 who didn't fight clearly have no damages to recover from, so them not being able to receive aid is no punishment, so we'll take them off the top. And the 36 lower nations who would get their aid have no restrictions on them receiving aid, they can go find it from other sources, within or outside of NPO, and be totally fine. Let's assume 50% efficiency for those nations being able to import cash like they would have before, an incredibly low number because we all know NPO has other 100% guys who can aid them, and NPO's allies would fight each other in line to shower those guys with aid. The "punishment" is 36 nations in NPO not having max slots, and maybe only being 50% full, for a few months. Seeing as no nation needs 10+ rounds of constant aid coming to them to get themselves self-sufficient again, and that 10+ rounds of even woefully inefficient aid would do that trick, it really isn't a punishment at all to anyone but those 30 nations who sat the whole war out. They've lived in peace mode for three months, let them have the effects of it for another three months without actually having to be in peace mode and lose collections.

[Goldie]

While I do appreciate you tipping your hat to those who are fighting in our coalition - as I'm grateful they are standing with us whether they have love for us or not, I think it's quite disingenuous to say GOD "may never walk right again". Are they the GOD of old? No. But they've lost maybe 28% NS/score in this war? That's not nearly the steepest drop in their history. R&R you have a point on, but talking to them recently I have faith they'll rebound. As for paper tiger comments, they're faring well enough to keep trucking along I believe. Paper tigers can apparently beat Greek Week, at least.

But yes, it's all NPO's fault and none of the responsibility can be anyone but Farrin's, just as EQ's incompetence was all the fault of Brehon and the fact that nobody was willing to spare nations to fight Umbrella (which, I'm told, NPO was guilty of - that still doesn't absolve others of their guilt in not enforcing a term agreed upon) is irrelevant. Let's be honest, Goldie, and shred the 100% propaganda outlook.

I'm comfortable that R&R can rebuild, the issue with GOD is that they rebuilt this war already, and had many nations who got destroyed after using their warchests to rebuild. But that's all my opinion, the rest is based pretty much on what's been going on. On a personal level, I don't blame Brehon for EQ. The extended war was an awful idea, and we were all pretty psyched about the prospect of you guys getting raped by Umbrella for a month while we all got a head start on rebuilding. Brehon was a face of EQ. Farrin is the face of your coalition. There are shades of gray with EQ, there aren't any here. Brehon messed up in other ways, in trying to project himself as the leader, even though he wasn't, and making the war all about how NPO was stomping on everyone, even though the numbers and experiences show NPO not really having a huge role in the war, compared to the others in EQ who pulled considerable weight. This war has been over for almost a month, the only things keeping it going are haggling over negotiating, and one side has been pretty consistent in their stance, and the other has been all over the place. One side has been around and willing to negotiate, the other walks out and disappears. The failure to secure peace by now does fall squarely on Farrin's shoulders, I'd imagine anyone else running the negotiations would have finished this off.

[Goldie]

Has a peace talk counterpart almost double his offer, adds 8 days to it to be dickish, then accuses the peace talk counterpart for being petulant for denying peace due to 'mere' 8 days difference he put there in the first place. Complains.

 

Nice.

Farrin walked out during the round where we 1/10th'd our offer (according to his stats of 20-30 billion or so in damages of PM) when we decided to back off of PM and just simulate the effects. Makes an entire thread to complain and kiss asses of allies.

 

Nice.

[brucemania]

It is Farrin's prerogative to be insulted or not by a counter-offer. The way he presented it, it was not as a "let's split the difference and call it 1.1", it was presented as merely the newest negotiating target for NPO. If it was his final offer, one that he would not go past, he should have said something to the like. Again, watch how Farrin negotiates, and its a very poor style. Jumping around too much, no real coherence, he doesn't have goals in mind when he goes in, which is why after his offers get countered or rejected he runs off, because he has no idea what the next step is when he walks in and can't make it up on the fly.

 

Let's also be real about the penalty. It doesn't penalize 240 nations, or however many. It penalizes the 30 who are subject to the terms, and at most, 30 other nations on your AA, the ones that the 30 would have sent aid to. Because Farrin is assuming 100% efficiency of slots in all of his claims about damages, we can assume the same here. Those 30 nations would only be able to send enough slots out to totally cover 30 other nations (we can call it 36 and say they don't have DRA's). So that is 66 nations affected, including 36 who don't have aid. The 30 who didn't fight clearly have no damages to recover from, so them not being able to receive aid is no punishment, so we'll take them off the top. And the 36 lower nations who would get their aid have no restrictions on them receiving aid, they can go find it from other sources, within or outside of NPO, and be totally fine. Let's assume 50% efficiency for those nations being able to import cash like they would have before, an incredibly low number because we all know NPO has other 100% guys who can aid them, and NPO's allies would fight each other in line to shower those guys with aid. The "punishment" is 36 nations in NPO not having max slots, and maybe only being 50% full, for a few months. Seeing as no nation needs 10+ rounds of constant aid coming to them to get themselves self-sufficient again, and that 10+ rounds of even woefully inefficient aid would do that trick, it really isn't a punishment at all to anyone but those 30 nations who sat the whole war out. They've lived in peace mode for three months, let them have the effects of it for another three months without actually having to be in peace mode and lose collections.

i understand what you are saying but i am thinking simply regardless if it is 50 percent or 100 percent something is better than nothing.

[alyster]

Rey, you are just as obnoxious as Tywin, fyi.

 

Until Rey starts his own "news program," Tywin will take the cake as most obnoxious.

 

You 2 need to learn the location of ignore button. I must say with out Rey and Tywin the OWF has improved 20%

[Stewie]

I'm comfortable that R&R can rebuild, the issue with GOD is that they rebuilt this war already, and had many nations who got destroyed after using their warchests to rebuild. But that's all my opinion, the rest is based pretty much on what's been going on. On a personal level, I don't blame Brehon for EQ. The extended war was an awful idea, and we were all pretty psyched about the prospect of you guys getting raped by Umbrella for a month while we all got a head start on rebuilding. Brehon was a face of EQ. Farrin is the face of your coalition. There are shades of gray with EQ, there aren't any here. Brehon messed up in other ways, in trying to project himself as the leader, even though he wasn't, and making the war all about how NPO was stomping on everyone, even though the numbers and experiences show NPO not really having a huge role in the war, compared to the others in EQ who pulled considerable weight. This war has been over for almost a month, the only things keeping it going are haggling over negotiating, and one side has been pretty consistent in their stance, and the other has been all over the place. One side has been around and willing to negotiate, the other walks out and disappears. The failure to secure peace by now does fall squarely on Farrin's shoulders, I'd imagine anyone else running the negotiations would have finished this off.

If you are SO worried about GOD then white peace all round!

[Branimir]

One side has been around and willing to negotiate, the other walks out and disappears. The failure to secure peace by now does fall squarely on Farrin's shoulders, I'd imagine anyone else running the negotiations would have finished this off.

Yes, one side wouldn't talk peace until very recently, while the other inquired about it for some time prior.

 

Then, once peace was in the reach, one side decided to just rub in some more insults and just push the envelope some more.

 

It wasn't the NPO, or Farrin.

[Goldie]

If you are SO worried about GOD then white peace all round!

Everyone VE is fighting has the ability to get out with a simple surrender.

[alyster]

Yes, one side wouldn't talk peace until very recently, while the other inquired about it for some time prior.

 

You do know no one has to grant you peace at the time of your choosing.

 

Also FYI people were working at TOP speed. 

[Neo Uruk]

I'm comfortable that R&R can rebuild, the issue with GOD is that they rebuilt this war already, and had many nations who got destroyed after using their warchests to rebuild. But that's all my opinion, the rest is based pretty much on what's been going on. On a personal level, I don't blame Brehon for EQ. The extended war was an awful idea, and we were all pretty psyched about the prospect of you guys getting raped by Umbrella for a month while we all got a head start on rebuilding. Brehon was a face of EQ. Farrin is the face of your coalition. There are shades of gray with EQ, there aren't any here. Brehon messed up in other ways, in trying to project himself as the leader, even though he wasn't, and making the war all about how NPO was stomping on everyone, even though the numbers and experiences show NPO not really having a huge role in the war, compared to the others in EQ who pulled considerable weight. This war has been over for almost a month, the only things keeping it going are haggling over negotiating, and one side has been pretty consistent in their stance, and the other has been all over the place. One side has been around and willing to negotiate, the other walks out and disappears. The failure to secure peace by now does fall squarely on Farrin's shoulders, I'd imagine anyone else running the negotiations would have finished this off.

Fair points. By the way, I was in GOONS for EQ - I know how psyched everyone was.

Farrin certainly holds a part of the blame for the war continuing, most on your side would likely say above 90% or so I'm sure. That said, to say NPO's "inconsistencies" in negotiating are necessarily a fault isn't quite fair in my opinion. While your coalition has apparently (I don't recall it, but there's been shit everywhere so please forgive me if it's somewhere I really should have noticed and been able to remember easily) stated they won't accept tech reps, the fact that Farrin is offering to offload tech while adhering somewhat to the original outline of terms is a sign of pretty good faith. The terms last offered are very fair, in my opinion, but I'm obviously not heading up negotiations for your side here.

The failure to secure peace by now is shared by all - some less so than others to be sure, but still shared by all. To say otherwise is to try and spin the situation. And again, as I've said, if your coalition was truly ready to be rid of this war, then it wouldn't have come down to this "8 days" nonsense. According to your own people, that is a fairly inconsequential number. The fact that you had to raise it by such an amount seems more like a slap in the face or point of pride than anything.

[Goldie]

Yes, one side wouldn't talk peace until very recently, while the other inquired about it for some time prior.

 

Then, once peace was in the reach, one side decided to just rub in some more insults and just push the envelope some more.

 

It wasn't the NPO, or Farrin.

Once we felt like the war was won to the point where peace would be a consideration, it was offered. If you guys call for peace on November 5th and the war is only five days old, you don't hang your hat on the fact that you've been pushing for peace for three months when in reality you've been holding it up for a month.

 

No one insulted NPO or Farrin, they made a counter offer. Insults are entirely relative. I can feel insulted by what you just posted, or I can not. I can interpret a counteroffer as an insult, or I can view it as a stepping stone to peace. Which one did Farrin choose, and which one would nearly every responsible alliance leader in CN choose?

[Goldie]

The failure to secure peace by now is shared by all - some less so than others to be sure, but still shared by all. To say otherwise is to try and spin the situation. And again, as I've said, if your coalition was truly ready to be rid of this war, then it wouldn't have come down to this "8 days" nonsense. According to your own people, that is a fairly inconsequential number. The fact that you had to raise it by such an amount seems more like a slap in the face or point of pride than anything.

Again, its something I wouldn't have done, but at some point, when you're running negotiations that hundreds of people are counting on you to conclude, you need to put aside a bit of pride and stop considering things as slaps in the face, and just suck it up and get peace done. Changing the framework and walking out ran far counter to that. Yeru approached Farrin, who had been avoiding the peace channel, last night to see what was up, and Farrin had an even newer peace structure to propose. The simplest and quickest way to end this is to just accept the framework, haggle on the time, and end the damn thing.

[Neo Uruk]

Again, its something I wouldn't have done, but at some point, when you're running negotiations that hundreds of people are counting on you to conclude, you need to put aside a bit of pride and stop considering things as slaps in the face, and just suck it up and get peace done. Changing the framework and walking out ran far counter to that. Yeru approached Farrin, who had been avoiding the peace channel, last night to see what was up, and Farrin had an even newer peace structure to propose. The simplest and quickest way to end this is to just accept the framework, haggle on the time, and end the damn thing.

I guess on that much we'll just have to agree to disagree. While you do have a (edit: very, very minor - it's been known from the start that anyone else can peace out first.. hell, they were originally to peace out before any of the core three alliances could start negotiating) point about the people "counting" on NPO, I can say - personally and I'm pretty sure my Emperor will resonate - that NPO has at least my full support to come to terms that they find reasonable.

I personally wouldn't have changed the framework and would have stuck with the 1.1 figure til my last breath, but perhaps Farrin thought it would be an easier haggle. Edited January 30, 2014 by Neo Uruk

[Branimir]

Once we felt like the war was won to the point where peace would be a consideration, it was offered. If you guys call for peace on November 5th and the war is only five days old, you don't hang your hat on the fact that you've been pushing for peace for three months when in reality you've been holding it up for a month.

 

No one insulted NPO or Farrin, they made a counter offer. Insults are entirely relative. I can feel insulted by what you just posted, or I can not. I can interpret a counteroffer as an insult, or I can view it as a stepping stone to peace. Which one did Farrin choose, and which one would nearly every responsible alliance leader in CN choose?

Just responding to the implication of your claim, how we are not around for peace talks, while we were around and ready for them long before you were.

 

Second to that, you already said you were willing to accept Farrin's offer. Therefore I have no issue with you.

 

By your own admission, we offered an acceptable peace deal, which was soiled by (by implications of your own words) unnecessary 8 days difference. A screwdriver thrown among the spokes of the wheel of peace. Those that do such, usually are the ones less willing to deal in peace.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Branimir

[Daimos]

I've been a part of, and seen a lot of negotiations. I've seen more stubborn people in them, and more delusional people in them, but the only person I've seen be more stubborn while more delusional than Farrin has been is Ramirus. Our side hasn't been super effective in negotiating, but that has more to do with the fact that most on our side can afford to see this war stretch on another couple of weeks, like it has. Farrin does not have that luxury of time, those who have entered for NPO burned to the ground while he was refusing anything but white peace for 3-4 weeks. Since they've actually been haggling, millions more NS has been lost from its allies. If they decide to pursue an entirely new framework for a deal, millions more will be lost.

 

The eight day difference gets eclipsed in 2-3 days, and NPO has already been parked in the 'unheard of economic devastation of extended peace mode' for a month since they flatly rejected terms. At this point, had they haggled peace mode to 1:1 they'd be a month out from being totally done and ready to roll, and having saved themselves and their allies millions upon millions of NS in the process. None of NPO's allies, and the allies of their allies, are actually fighting to defend NPO anymore, nor are they fighting to defend them from terms. Our coalition and NPO have a framework of terms that were found agreeable. No reps, no peace mode, no humiliation, just a simulated peace mode without the 'economic devastation' for 30 or so nations who spent the last three months doing exactly that.

 

My hat is off to someone like GOD who probably went into this thinking that it would be quick, that negotiations were going, that they'd go in, defend R&R a bit, and walk out. Instead, this peace process has buried them, and they may never walk right again. Same to R&R, who entered to defend their allies in TIO and NATO, who were only in the war because they were being stubborn negotiators, which is their right. But I'm sure R&R didn't expect to get thoroughly destroyed when they entered, they too probably thought the war would be over soon after they entered, and that they wouldn't have exposed themselves and their bloc for being paper tigers in a fight that means absolutely nothing to them, all because of an alliance they aren't treatied to (NPO) can't make up their minds on what they'll accept. A coalition leader has to put his stubbornness aside on behalf of those who have lost so much for him. Farrin's stubbornness is fine, but it is his delusions that keep him from seeing that, and its truly sad.

 

Seriously, you need to stop harping on that NPO is holding our coalition hostage.  Alliances in NSO's coalition are fighting to honor thier treaties and that includes NPO. 

 

It is your coalition that is prolonging this war by being petty and attempting to squeeze a .1x more just to satisfy your ego.  Your coalition screwed that up.  Blaming NPO is just an attempt of another smear campaign on your adversary.  No one in our corner is stupid enough to buy it.

[ChairmanHal]

 

Seriously, you need to stop harping on that NPO is holding our coalition hostage.  Alliances in NSO's coalition are fighting to honor thier treaties and that includes NPO. 

 

It is your coalition that is prolonging this war by being petty and attempting to squeeze a .1x more just to satisfy your ego.  Your coalition screwed that up.  Blaming NPO is just an attempt of another smear campaign on your adversary.  No one in our corner is stupid enough to buy it.

 

Last offer I heard from NPO radically altered the terms in NPO's favor while appearing to offer an extended period under restrictions.

 

If this is what you call negotiating, I suggest contacting FAN about activities you can perform while in extended Peace Mode.  We're going to be here a while.   <_<

[Neo Uruk]

in NPO's favor

Yes, clearly sending reparations is in NPO's favor.

Just like growing a bit more of Valhalla into DBDC's range would be in your favor, right?

[Scorn]

Once we felt like the war was won to the point where peace would be a consideration, it was offered. If you guys call for peace on November 5th and the war is only five days old, you don't hang your hat on the fact that you've been pushing for peace for three months when in reality you've been holding it up for a month.

 

No one insulted NPO or Farrin, they made a counter offer. Insults are entirely relative. I can feel insulted by what you just posted, or I can not. I can interpret a counteroffer as an insult, or I can view it as a stepping stone to peace. Which one did Farrin choose, and which one would nearly every responsible alliance leader in CN choose?

If you look closely at the OP and the comments of Branimir, Letum, allies in NSO, and allies in GATO you will see the real problem was never the 8 days. It was that Farrin wanted to make one dramatic gesture and end the terms on his offer. It is a way to save face with his alliance and allies by demonstrating his willingness to compromise. The nickel and dime counter offer ruined the narrative he could create with the end to negotiations. Normally when one or both cultures have issues with saving face, then important negotiations are conducted by underlings and the big dramatic finish is accomplished by the big shots after the underlings have hammered out the details that are acceptable to all parties.

 

Of course the reason for the Polar counter offer, being that Polar coalition feels the offer on the table is entirely reasonable, makes it hard to make the big dramatic Pacifican offer in the first place.