Why the War?

[IYIyTh]

i mean, you guys sent over majik, who had his wars deleted with puppets for that thing that happens when you're bad etc

 

i think the more important thing was the other gov members, like natan and lusitan's well known and documented desire to roll ai

 

but idk it could be anything at this point this is all just too crazy and i think we need to let the future of cn (tom riddle) arbiter our feelings about each other ok

 

also myth for umbrella viceroy tia

[Sir Keshav IV]

Can we all agree that any competent alliance would contingency plans and that you folks had some sort of idea at least if a war did occur how to go about handling it? At least it'd lesson the nonsense being spewed in this thread. We believed you folks were out for our necks and prepared for it and I would be surprised if you folks outright deny that you did not have plans either. 

 

Also I doubt as an alliance we have any "beef" with Umbrella apart from the Puppets issue ( if there is more I must have missed it <_< apologies ) and your diplomats on our forums could attest to the cordial nature of interaction we've had since our inception. I really don't believe having defensive plans in the case of any situation arising means we were actively looking to roll Umbrella. I disagree with that notion entirely. On the other hand I do believe that Puppets was the second time an incident like that was happening to us and our government decided to react aggressively to it. 

[Auctor]

Can we all agree that any competent alliance would contingency plans and that you folks had some sort of idea at least if a war did occur how to go about handling it? At least it'd lesson the nonsense being spewed in this thread. We believed you folks were out for our necks and prepared for it and I would be surprised if you folks outright deny that you did not have plans either. 

 

Also I doubt as an alliance we have any "beef" with Umbrella apart from the Puppets issue ( if there is more I must have missed it <_< apologies ) and your diplomats on our forums could attest to the cordial nature of interaction we've had since our inception. I really don't believe having defensive plans in the case of any situation arising means we were actively looking to roll Umbrella. I disagree with that notion entirely. On the other hand I do believe that Puppets was the second time an incident like that was happening to us and our government decided to react aggressively to it. 

Oh, excellent. Puppets is staggered properly now, problem's resolved? :P

[Amossio]

Can we all agree that any competent alliance would contingency plans and that you folks had some sort of idea at least if a war did occur how to go about handling it? At least it'd lesson the nonsense being spewed in this thread. We believed you folks were out for our necks and prepared for it and I would be surprised if you folks outright deny that you did not have plans either. 

 

Also I doubt as an alliance we have any "beef" with Umbrella apart from the Puppets issue ( if there is more I must have missed it <_< apologies ) and your diplomats on our forums could attest to the cordial nature of interaction we've had since our inception. I really don't believe having defensive plans in the case of any situation arising means we were actively looking to roll Umbrella. I disagree with that notion entirely. On the other hand I do believe that Puppets was the second time an incident like that was happening to us and our government decided to react aggressively to it. 

Contingency plans were made primarily with one purpose in mind, wait for the right time to roll DH. It was not for self defense, it was not in case DH decided to roll anyone else, plans were being drafted months ago, when we literally cared nothing for AI. You and a few other aa's made plans with the sole purpose to roll DH at a later date, whether or not it was going to come tomorrow or now is by the by. Yes any alliance would have plans to deal with potential aggressors, but the animosity, the various plans on the mass scale to to deal with umb, the diplo work behind the background, your sides leader statements saying they were planning to deal with umb and just waiting for the right time is by no means contingency plans put in case DH comes for you. AI, NPO and tio made plans to knock down DH, specifically umbrella to get a shot at MK. I mean the various statements coming from you lot months ago saying they were coming for us just goes to show that.

 

I'm not bothered by your war against us, I do welcome it, but please stop blaming it on the puppets hypothesis to make yourselfs in the right. War was drafted because you boys wanted a shot at us, simple as that. You been wanting a shot for a long time, now you got the opportunity. I love fighting cifica, brings me great joy, waited for this moment for a long time. But by no means is neither side any sort of honourable alliance or in the right during this conflict. 

Edited February 27, 2013 by Amossio

[Tick1]

i mean, you guys sent over majik, who had his wars deleted with puppets for that thing that happens when you're bad etc

 

I'll refer you to certain key posts; dates and times ect.

 

AI & Company DoW on Umbrella, "Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:00 AM"

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=114834

 

Commander Shepard reports Umbrella for slot filling "Posted 15 January 2013 - 5:42 PM"

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/114780-war-slot-filling/

 

Commander Shepard's report is handled "Posted 21 January 2013 - 2:05 AM"

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/114780-war-slot-filling/#entry3081434

 

I'd also like to make some key observations that you may not be able to conclude based on your inability to type properly. AI & Company declared war before those slots were deemed filling. If we are at war with a BIBO member who cannot by policy attack back while another entity declares war on us. We are in fact not going to attack him, at all its a waste of resources. So in essence the only reason our slots were deleted was because you guys declared war on us. As you can see the report was handled 50 hours after your initial declaration. rather than being handled within the 78 hours before AI & Companies declaration . Which means we didn't attack Puppets at maximum three days, which as I concluded above for you would happen since he wasn't a threat to our organization. Seeing as you'll spew up some nonsensical reason for why the wars weren't deleted prior to that I'll leave my future comment from any of your sides attempt to validate this war based on slot filling. It's wrong and very, very unintelligent. 

[IYIyTh]

You are acting on false premise and thus you have arrived at your conclusion.

[Max Power]

TOP objecting to any ties to us within PF(Which feanor said earlier in on of these clusterfuck threads here on the OWF) while still being tied to IRON whom were one of our best and longest standing allies.

I thought I'd already explained this wasn't the case. Feanor's rattling your cage. Of course, I'm sure some in TOP objected but that wasn't the story from gov.

[Tick1]

I thought I'd already explained this wasn't the case. Feanor's rattling your cage. Of course, I'm sure some in TOP objected but that wasn't the story from gov.

 

How do democracies work?

[JoshuaR]

i mean, you guys sent over majik, who had his wars deleted with puppets for that thing that happens when you're bad etc

 

i think the more important thing was the other gov members, like natan and lusitan's well known and documented desire to roll ai

 

but idk it could be anything at this point this is all just too crazy and i think we need to let the future of cn (tom riddle) arbiter our feelings about each other ok

 

also myth for umbrella viceroy tia

Majik is an envoy. And don't forget about me! :P

 

I don't know of any well-known or document plan by Natan or Lusitan. Maybe they tell more to our war opponents than their own government.

[Tick1]

Majik is an envoy. And don't forget about me! :P

 

I don't know of any well-known or document plan by Natan or Lusitan. Maybe they tell more to our war opponents than their own government.

 

Natan and Lusitan set to overthrow Umbrella! They must be interlopers of the enemy, ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!

[Sir Keshav IV]

Contingency plans were made primarily with one purpose in mind, wait for the right time to roll DH. It was not for self defense, it was not in case DH decided to roll anyone else, plans were being drafted months ago, when we literally cared nothing for AI. You and a few other aa's made plans with the sole purpose to roll DH at a later date, whether or not it was going to come tomorrow or now is by the by. Yes any alliance would have plans to deal with potential aggressors, but the animosity, the various plans on the mass scale to to deal with umb, the diplo work behind the background, your sides leader statements saying they were planning to deal with umb and just waiting for the right time is by no means contingency plans put in case DH comes for you. AI, NPO and tio made plans to knock down DH, specifically umbrella to get a shot at MK. I mean the various statements coming from you lot months ago saying they were coming for us just goes to show that.

 

I'm not bothered by your war against us, I do welcome it, but please stop blaming it on the puppets hypothesis to make yourselfs in the right. War was drafted because you boys wanted a shot at us, simple as that. You been wanting a shot for a long time, now you got the opportunity. I love fighting cifica, brings me great joy, waited for this moment for a long time. But by no means is neither side any sort of honourable alliance or in the right during this conflict. 

 

I believe the man in charge of our Foreign Affairs just told you he ( and by extension Ai ) did not have any plans to aggressively attack Umbrella. 

 

Other then that since you really haven't said anything else but the same nonsense even after a couple of us have told you otherwise means there really isn't any point arguing. Have fun spinning your shit :)

Edited February 27, 2013 by Sir Keshav IV

[Tick1]

I believe the man in charge of our Foreign Affairs just told you he ( and by extension Ai ) did not have any plans to aggressively attack Umbrella. 

 

Other then that since you really haven't said anything else but the same nonsense even after a couple of us have told you otherwise means there really isn't any point arguing. Have fun spinning your shit :)

 

and yet you guys did aggressively attack us, ironic how that turns out. 

[MCRABT]

No, actually, that didn't happen.  You forgot the part where DR made the decision to roll DH months prior to this war happening.  You seem to think that your side wasn't planning to war with DH at all.  Judging by the response to the war and the number of alliances fighting in it, the dogpiling, etc, I'll have to call you either a liar or someone who wasn't in the know and who lacks critical thinking skills.  Yes DR planned to war against DH/Umb.  The Puppets incident was the spark, the fuel was already present.

 

Own up to what you did. 

 

We were planning a war with DH, just like you guys were planning a war with us, that doesn't mean either side was necessarily planning to attack the other, given the long term tensions between alliances within our respective spheres it would be irresponsible for parties on either side of the fence not to have been preparing for this conflict. It was widely recognised on all sides of the fence that the power dynamics pitted DR/NPO and DH as the primary competitors for power, as DH was the only threat to our security and we were the only threat to yours it is only natural that both sides would prepare to face off with one another. Unfortunately (or not depending on how bored you are) in CN this security dilemma is often self-fulfilling and thus we find ourselves in at war. It is not that we dislike Umbrella perse it is the nature of the game, we could all strive to change the dynamics that influence the international system but this would result in bob being even more dull that it is at present.

 

tl;dr Don't hate the player hate the game.

[Sir Keshav IV]

and yet you guys did aggressively attack us, ironic how that turns out. 

 

Some would say we are defending ourselves, others say we're on the aggressive but I'm pretty sure it wasn't premeditated. I don't believe it was premeditated anyway. Thats my opinion. It occurred because of the puppets incident otherwise I doubt we would have attacked you folks in the given time frame.

Edited February 27, 2013 by Sir Keshav IV

[Tick1]

Some would say we are defending ourselves, others say we're on the aggressive but I'm pretty sure it wasn't premeditated. I don't believe it was premeditated anyway. Thats my opinion. It occurred because of the puppets incident otherwise I doubt we would have attacked you folks in the given time frame.

 

I like how you respond to my post that has no logical reasoning attached instead of refuting my earlier posts that have logical reasoning behind them. 

[Caliph]

Some would say we are defending ourselves, others say we're on the aggressive but I'm pretty sure it wasn't premeditated. I don't believe it was premeditated anyway. Thats my opinion. It occurred because of the puppets incident otherwise I doubt we would have attacked you folks in the given time frame.

 

Some say you are defending yourselves.  They are simply touting the party line that justifies their sides point of view because they need to think that they are defending against some DH agression.  They have a victimhood complex.  Some don't, such as those who have flat out owned up to attacking us because they wanted to and we gave a reason. 

[Amossio]

I believe the man in charge of our Foreign Affairs just told you he ( and by extension Ai ) did not have any plans to aggressively attack Umbrella. 

 

Other then that since you really haven't said anything else but the same nonsense even after a couple of us have told you otherwise means there really isn't any point arguing. Have fun spinning your shit :)

hehe I'm not spinning I'm goinhg by what was said by certain people to myself and allies of yours, things that were said quite some time ago mate. 

 

Have spinning YOUR shit :P haha, anyways hopen you lads have fun at least

[shahenshah]

Tell us how you really feel ...

If you read his post, he mentions he is feeling great. 

[Sir Keshav IV]

Some say you are defending yourselves.  They are simply touting the party line that justifies their sides point of view because they need to think that they are defending against some DH agression.  They have a victimhood complex.  Some don't, such as those who have flat out owned up to attacking us because they wanted to and we gave a reason. 

 

Using what you said I have a question, do you agree that the reason we're at war is because of the Puppets incident i.e the reason you gave us? So thats why we're at war aren't we? :P ( Now if that made no sense apologies, 4 AM and studying for finals that begin in a few hours xD )

 

Also Tick I'll comb through the thread later and see if there is anything to refute :P 

[Ogaden]

People still arguing about the cause of war?  You realize the cause of a war isn't the same as the justification right?  It's what STARTED the war.  The justification for this war you could write a novella on.

[Caliph]

Using what you said I have a question, do you agree that the reason we're at war is because of the Puppets incident i.e the reason you gave us? So thats why we're at war aren't we? :P ( Now if that made no sense apologies, 4 AM and studying for finals that begin in a few hours xD )

 

Also Tick I'll comb through the thread later and see if there is anything to refute :P

 

We are at war with AI because AI attacked us.  AI attacked us because the Puppets incident gave them the CB they thought they could use to satisfy their/their allies/coalition needs for a CB prior to attacking us, so in that sense we are currently fighting AI because AI used the Puppets situation as the spark to start the war.  I firmly believe if it wasn't Puppets who provided the spark that there would have been a different spark sooner or later and this war would essentialy happen anyway.

 

Everyone is fine with that and fine with being at war.  This war had to happen sooner or later.

 

The only disagreements are if you are defending yourself from agressive Umbrella actions of attacking a rogue who hit AI or if you are agressively attacking Umbrella.  Bottom line is that regardless which is true the war will continue.  Propoganda from your side has you trying to paint this as a war of containment on Umbrella for numerous "agressive actions", so of course you need an agressive Umbrella to have sparked this war to justify the destruction your side is taking. 

 

I give props to those who can own up to what they did, which is take a reason to hit us and hit us.  Tell it like it is without the propoganda.

[Caliph]

People still arguing about the cause of war?  You realize the cause of a war isn't the same as the justification right?  It's what STARTED the war.  The justification for this war you could write a novella on.

 

Everyone agrees on the cause of the war.  We are fine, more than fine, with it. 

 

Some people disagree who the agressor and defender are.  Now it doesn't really matter since the war will continue regardless of this, but people on your side recognize that they are the agressor and own up to it, while others are trying to twist it and say that you are defending. 

 

It doesn't really matter in the scheme of things, but it is less annoying than trying to spin this.

[Samus]

Half truth right here.

 

At some point I'm sure you didn't want to roll Umbrella.

 

However at some point your allies and yourselves saw what happened to SF/XX and said to yourselves "lets not allow that to happen to us", and made steps to make suer that didn't happen.  Politics were played, alliances swayed, months passed, and now we're at war.  We're fine with that, its how the game is played. 

 

But don't try to insult our intelligence and claim you didn't want to roll Umbrella.  That might have been the case when you first merged to form AI, but that view had changed months prior to this war starting.  Perhaps you personally didn't want to roll Umbrella, but to say your alliance didn't is an insult to our intelligence.

 

Either that or your members really are so delusional that you need them to think this is a defensive action on your part against an agressive DH in order to get membership on your side.  I know some AI members so I know that isn't the case.

LOOOOOL.

Sorry I like you Caliph, but do you go to bed and dream up these conspiracies or something?

 

And in my opinion I don't think anyone truly wanted to roll Umbrella. Think about it.

 

What has Umbrella done to any alliance that could cause such motives?

 

The true targets here are MK/GOONS, Umbrella's just in the way.

[ChairmanHal]

Everyone agrees on the cause of the war.  We are fine, more than fine, with it. 

 

Some people disagree who the agressor and defender are.  Now it doesn't really matter since the war will continue regardless of this, but people on your side recognize that they are the agressor and own up to it, while others are trying to twist it and say that you are defending. 

 

It doesn't really matter in the scheme of things, but it is less annoying than trying to spin this.

 

masterof9puppets, Umbrella operative...65 days of leaving Planet Bob and counting...   :smug:

[Crownguard]

as far as I can tell this was just the treaty web bringing us in (and a few other reasons, I am generalizing with little knowledge :P)

 

so according to the wiki the main cause for this massive war was umbrella slot filling puppets? there has to be a deeper reason then that. I mean if that is the reason, that is a lot of people upset about one nation...

 

To answer your question, I bring you a brilliant analysis of the reasons from one of our members:

 

"
Its not really just that though, the vast majority of people in this game simply cannot take any kind of negative attitude directed at them. They talk to each over in embassy's and on IRC like a bunch of sycophants and when someone comes along and actually says what they mean then its like the worst possible thing has happened ever. That's what this war is about, defending man children from having mean things said about them."

 

I honestly can't think of a better answer.  This war should be the War of Hurt Feelings.