Imperial Decree

[Sir Humphrey]

[quote name='hobbies0310' timestamp='1350224647' post='3041305']
If MK did this it would be frowned upon and considered evil by the rest of you bottom feeders. But since NPO did it, its ok. Carry on.
[/quote]
This comment makes no sense. NPO is engaging in a wargame with Sparta's consent. Why would that be considered evil? By contrast, the last global war resulted from MK declaring on CSN based on a fabricated CB. So it is hardly the case that MK is being victimised, as your post seems to imply.

[D34th]

The funny thing is see a VE member trying to defend MK.

[Tick1]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1350249922' post='3041396']
The funny thing is see a VE member trying to defend MK.
[/quote]

Where is Waldo?

[Commander shepard]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1350249922' post='3041396']
The funny thing is see a VE member trying to defend MK.
[/quote]

There's not much else for VE to do.
It's not very funny either, it is kinda sad if you think about it.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Commander shepard

[WarriorConcept]

Beside the fact that all Viridians are allowed to have their own opinion, hobbies is not a VE member. Good attempt at attacking the AA instead of the argument as usual however, you'll learn how to argue one day.

[D34th]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1350258619' post='3041439']
Beside the fact that all Viridians are allowed to have their own opinion, hobbies is not a VE member. Good attempt at attacking the AA instead of the argument as usual however, you'll learn how to argue one day.
[/quote]

He had an argument? Do you really believe that someone would say that a MK is evil if it was them doing a wargame?

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1350261203' post='3041454']
He had an argument? Do you really believe that someone would say that a MK is evil if it was them doing a wargame?
[/quote]

Whether his argument has merit or not is a different matter entirely and something I'm sure he's willing to defend himself. That still does not negate the fact that you ignored the content of his post and instead of replying in kind to the actual player, you singled out his Alliance Affiliation (which he is not even a member of).

I really shouldn't be surprised though, you're not exactly known for your debating skills.

[King William]

[quote name='hobbies0310' timestamp='1350224647' post='3041305']
If MK did this it would be frowned upon and considered evil by the rest of you bottom feeders. But since NPO did it, its ok. Carry on.
[/quote]
Woah, Woah, Woah.

Woah. This is our soap box right now thank you. I admit I love complaining about MK as much as the next guy (unless that next guy doesn't like complaining about MK, in which case I don't approve of such actions either), but this is a thread about Pacifican hate.

I know you guys love the hate (speaking about MK, but this really applies to everyone), but you know we love it too. In fact you love to hate us, which we love. It's apart of who we are. So just let it happen. MK got their fill of hate last war. We're taking the burden now, and after we're done with our thing, you can one up us with "something" to get your hate levels to the max. Then we'll of course have to top you, and it'll be a grand back & forth!


Now on to justifications for the war, here are some of my views, which I've seen some people mention in passing, but seemingly hasn't been talked about yet. People like to complain about alliances "doing something". Well we are. This isn't as big as you might have liked it, but if it was so easy to just do something crazy & exciting, everyone would do it. Just let us to stretch before we plan any sort of four minute mile. People aren't used to alliances just "doing something". Both externally (you can see that), and internally (you can bet some people don't like the "just do something" attitude). So you gotta push them a bit until they can accept it.

Also Sparta. Why them, why take the damage, or at least, why not make it "a real war" with nukes? Several reasons. It's true that this is a constructed exercise, a wargame, but is it so alien an idea that the NPO & Sparta exchange some blows? There has been some hate between our alliances, and while it really is long dead history, and irrelevant nowadays, as far as I know, sometimes people like to hold grudges. People always like to dig up old history, and some members (and everyone has a few of them) are just stuck in the past. Until you have a reason to change your views, why should you? This war gives us a chance to accomplish all the other reasons mentioned, but it can be as real as any war. What is war, but a chance to physically hit someone who you were already not caring for. Getting in their face and telling them what you think of it, "I don't like your face."

What are politics? They're simply a way of bolstering yourself into power via means other than using your fists. What we do is politics, all the time. But they're not the only thing we do. Because without the baser element of just hitting them in the face, all the coalition building, and PR won't do you any good unless you truly have enough mean words to break their will. But while we all like to play politics, sometimes they get in the way so; for just one week, the NPO and Sparta can pretend that it's just the two of us. Just like the good old days of one on one alliance warfare, we fight.

And after this war? We're done. We can pack up, shake hands, and move on back to the real world. The one with the treaty web, back room meetings, political maneuvering, and months, sometimes years of waiting for just the right spark to let off some pressure.



I know after our "wargame" with VE (which was totally a real war by the way), I like them better. And in all honesty, it seemingly got them to wake up again, and they're in a much better state (in my humble opinion). Seems "doing something" was just what they needed. Why can't we have more of that?

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='King William' timestamp='1350261450' post='3041456']
I know after our "wargame" with VE (which was totally a real war by the way), I like them better. And in all honesty, it seemingly got them to wake up again, and they're in a much better state (in my humble opinion). Seems "doing something" was just what they needed. Why can't we have more of that?
[/quote]

Regardless of who we fought that war, the end result politically at the time up until now would have probably been the same. I agree our war was fun and our membership/gov relationships improved, so kudos to you guys for not being !@#$%y opponents and remaining classy through the whole thing.

I personally (and I know many others) were hoping it was going to be a precedent moving forward in this game. A few rounds of full out war without hiding before shaking hands at the end and getting ready for the next engagement. That, in my opinion, would allow us to resume a more active political environment and shorten timeframes in between wars.

My 2 cents anyway, apologies for the hijack and enjoy the fight.

Edited October 15, 2012 by WarriorConcept

[King William]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1350262066' post='3041462']
Regardless of who we fought that war, the end result politically at the time up until now would have probably been the same. I agree our war was fun and our membership/gov relationships improved, so kudos to you guys for not being !@#$%y opponents and remaining classy through the whole thing.

I personally (and I know many others) were hoping it was going to be a precedent moving forward in this game. A few rounds of full out war without hiding before shaking hands at the end and getting ready for the next engagement. That, in my opinion, would allow us to resume a more active political environment and shorten timeframes in between wars.

My 2 cents anyway, apologies for the hijack and enjoy the fight.
[/quote]
Perhaps, but doing stuff is fun.

And I agree about the precedent moving forward. But old habits die hard. My point is could this not be part of moving forward.

And I don't find it to be hijacking, but I should mindless hail to be safe o/

[D34th]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1350261429' post='3041455']
Whether his argument has merit or not is a different matter entirely and something I'm sure he's willing to defend himself. That still does not negate the fact that you ignored the content of his post and instead of replying in kind to the actual player, you singled out his Alliance Affiliation (which he is not even a member of).

I really shouldn't be surprised though, you're not exactly known for your debating skills.
[/quote]

Not my fault if he is using VE' AA without being a member, but see someone using VE' AA while defending MK is hilarious, doesn't matter what and the way you're reacting to my post (You're terrible poster, bawww!) just emphasizes the hilarity of the situation.

[Havalden]

Wow. Fake wars generate the same amount of hate as real ones. Shocker.

[Azaghul]

My favorite part of this is that almost half of Sparta is in anarchy from a non-nuclear war.

[hobbies0310]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1350262552' post='3041466']
Not my fault if he is using VE' AA without being a member, but see someone using VE' AA while defending MK is hilarious, doesn't matter what and the way you're reacting to my post (You're terrible poster, bawww!) just emphasizes the hilarity of the situation.
[/quote]
I would like to apologize first to VE for not changing my AA on these forums. I recently left VE and had not gotten around to change it first, my apologies for the confusion and causing the unwarranted attacks on the alliance.

Now to reply to you. The basis of my comment was simple. You (meaning you specifically actually, and many others), find a way to manipulate anything certain alliances do to make them look like an "ebil" alliance while anything another alliance does is acceptable. In this case, it was a bit of a lulzy comment, and certainly a bit exaggerated on my part (I wasn't expecting the huge reaction it got tbh.) I have no personal problem with war games nor with the NPO and these war games certainly aren't evil. I was saying it more in a jab at the trolls that flood this forum with manipulation and lies, such as yourself.

To King William, as I explained a bit more above, I have no problem with these war games. While I feel they are kind of pointless, they definitely can be fun and I wish you guys the best of luck and hope your relationship with Sparta grows from this.

[Baltus]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1350262552' post='3041466']
Not my fault if he is using VE' AA without being a member, but see someone using VE' AA while defending MK is hilarious, doesn't matter what and the way you're reacting to my post (You're terrible poster, bawww!) just emphasizes the hilarity of the situation.
[/quote]
VE really needs to work on displaying its loyalty to the Fungal Throne more.

inb4 VE joins Doomhouse

[Nobuna]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1350355902' post='3041773']
My favorite part of this is that almost half of Sparta is in anarchy from a non-nuclear war.
[/quote]

They're outnumbered, what's surprising?

[flak attack]

[quote name='Nobuna' timestamp='1350359890' post='3041785']
They're outnumbered, what's surprising?
[/quote]
Having only 40% of the nations in the war doesn't make it acceptable to have almost 75% of the anarchied nations in the war. If you're halfway competent, it's not hard to avoid anarchy in a war you know is coming when barely outnumbered 3:2.

[TrilobyteMan]

Nuclear rogue. ~*woohoo*~

I guess at least it means Sparta has lost some trash from this.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1350067292' post='3040702']
When did I ever say this was a world changer? You would be correct the moment you admit I never did.

Putting Order to Chaos starts at home. You would have gotten that just by reading the posts, or actually listened when I said that.
[/quote]

Sure, now it starts at home. The implication from your rhetoric and those of your IOs (and members too? Not sure I usually ignore those) was that this event would bring order to a chaotic world. How is that not claiming this to be a game changer in any sense? I already know that this never will work in that manner and I know it wasn't designed to. But that is the salesmanship we've been exposed to for 30 days prior to the actual event taking place.

Somehow I think simply announcing that you were looking for a sparring partner in 30 days instead of all these empty speeches about making the world a better place would have been preferable. If not for you, now, then for everyone else who really isn't impressed.

Don't take this as an attack on the idea of wargames for the sake of fun itself. That's perfectly fine, I doubt anybody aside from the most prolific of stat huggers, would argue otherwise. A lot of us just don't want to be sold the cart before the ox is all.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Emperor Marx

[Iotupa]

[quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1350453634' post='3042113']
Sure, now it starts at home. The implication from your rhetoric and those of your IOs (and members too? Not sure I usually ignore those) was that this event would bring order to a chaotic world. How is that not claiming this to be a game changer in any sense? I already know that this never will work in that manner and I know it wasn't designed to. But that is the salesmanship we've been exposed to for 30 days prior to the actual event taking place.

Somehow I think simply announcing that you were looking for a sparring partner in 30 days instead of all these empty speeches about making the world a better place would have been preferable. If not for you, now, then for everyone else who really isn't impressed.

Don't take this as an attack on the idea of wargames for the sake of fun itself. That's perfectly fine, I doubt anybody aside from the most prolific of stat huggers, would argue otherwise. A lot of us just don't want to be sold the cart before the ox is all.
[/quote]

And now I've agreed with Emperor Marx.

I guess NPO did change the world, after all.

[Commander shepard]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1350459368' post='3042132']
And now I've agreed with Emperor Marx.
I guess NPO did change the world, after all.
[/quote]

So the both of you interpreted it wrong, big deal get over it.

[TrilobyteMan]

[quote name='Emperor Marx' timestamp='1350453634' post='3042113']
Sure, now it starts at home. The implication from your rhetoric and those of your IOs (and members too? Not sure I usually ignore those) was that this event would bring order to a chaotic world. How is that not claiming this to be a game changer in any sense? I already know that this never will work in that manner and I know it wasn't designed to. But that is the salesmanship we've been exposed to for 30 days prior to the actual event taking place.

Somehow I think simply announcing that you were looking for a sparring partner in 30 days instead of all these empty speeches about making the world a better place would have been preferable. If not for you, now, then for everyone else who really isn't impressed.

Don't take this as an attack on the idea of wargames for the sake of fun itself. That's perfectly fine, I doubt anybody aside from the most prolific of stat huggers, would argue otherwise. A lot of us just don't want to be sold the cart before the ox is all.
[/quote]

We are making the world a better place. For us. :]

[Daimos]

Issue here is the 30 day notice. I get why the peanut gallery is upset. I personally would not have done it knowing it will be a war game with Sparta but our Emperor has given his reasons and I can see the logic in it.

Our detractors will use this against us and our closest allies will see it as is.

Was it worth it? Time will tell.

[Princess Doomee]

And the more upset the peanut gallery gets, the more successful Brehon's operation becomes. Keep adding heat to the fire and we'll keep laughing and chuckling and giggling. I really luv you guys.

[Litha Riddle]

[quote name='Princess Doomee' timestamp='1350493601' post='3042180']
And the more upset the peanut gallery gets, the more successful Brehon's operation becomes. Keep adding heat to the fire and we'll keep laughing and chuckling and giggling. I really luv you guys.
[/quote]

I'm sure the feeling is mutual