An Umbrella Treaty Announcement

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1338716042' post='2976461']
You do realize that if they reject the option of attacking DR, that's mean it's your head on the chopping bloc. There's nothing wrong with that necessarily, but it just looks like you're praising your enemy just because they pissed off Umbrella.
[/quote]


Chopping block?

Who cares?

If you haven't noticed (this treaty,) plenty of ammends have been attempted. From Johnny attempting to say discussions about rolling said alliances never happened, to other officials pretending to have no grudge against said alliances.
As evidenced here I think there is a significant question as to the validity of those statements and given the evidence I have seen the amount of trust is quite debatable.

As for SF or any other group being on the chopping bloc -- so what? Who here is afraid of war? I'm not. I'm for certain more than happy of a dug in war that grinds from the bottom up. No more poor co-ordination, et al.
SF is full of a bunch of aliances whom are ready to move on. I know quite a few other alliances whom have already moved on but would still hold on to old grudges because they are convenient. If that takes SF/XX getting hit once more, I say -- bring it. I'm not afraid. That said -- there are clearly larger trust issues at play and frankly -- XX/SF will only be in range of any given amount of alliances for so long.

People can continue to mark X Y or Z off for demolition. I'm bored. If someone wants a piece of us, why not? Who am I to stop them?
That said -- no one stays down forever. And I doubt as many are ready and willing to sacrafice an uneven deployment for such little gain.

Edited June 3, 2012 by IYIyTh

[Stewie]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1338715658' post='2976454']
I don't care. At the very least from sparring with Arexes I've known him to be a character of principle. Right or wrong -- he will do anything he can in his power to ensure his alliance succeeds. In this instance I see an Arexes whom has no reason to be untruthful while there are many other figures whom have any reason to continue to purvey their shady stance on a multitude of issues. While I don't necessarily agree with everything Non Grata has done I have agreed in multiple instances (including multiple wars,) that they did nothing less than I would expect myself to do in similar circumstances. For once -- I'm just enjoying the fact that someone else isn't putting up with the two-faced actions of others simply because of their size -- and I respect it.
[/quote]

That's actually basically what we (NG Tri) have decided to be.

It's why we get on so well with our allies. None of us have anything to hide between each other, we don't hide our plans or our goals from each other. That is something we never had with PB. Everyone had their own little plans which they didn't share and [i][b]every[/b][/i] time we asked what our goal was for the bloc pretty much everyone said they were happy to just sit there. Which would have been great if everyone else in Bob wasn't being proactive and developing their own spheres to the detriment of the PB power structure.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1338716416' post='2976463']
Chopping block?

Who cares?

If you haven't noticed (this treaty,) plenty of ammends have been attempted. From Johnny attempting to say discussions about rolling said alliances never happened, to other officials pretending to have no grudge against said alliances.
As evidenced here I think there is a significant question as to the validity of those statements and given the evidence I have seen the amount of trust is quite debatable.

As for SF or any other group being on the chopping bloc -- so what? Who here is afraid of war? I'm not. I'm for certain more than happy of a dug in war that grinds from the bottom up. No more poor co-ordination, et al.
SF is full of a bunch of aliances whom are ready to move on. I know quite a few other alliances whom have already moved on but would still hold on to old grudges because they are convenient. If that takes SF/XX getting hit once more, I say -- bring it. I'm not afraid. That said -- there are clearly larger trust issues at play and frankly -- XX/SF will only be in range of any given amount of alliances for so long.

People can continue to mark X Y or Z off for demolition. I'm bored. If someone wants a piece of us, why not? Who am I to stop them?
That said -- no one stays down forever. And I doubt as many are ready and willing to sacrafice an uneven deployment for such little gain.
[/quote]

Hey if you don't have any problems with being rolled then I have no problems for you. If NG comes knocking at your door I think you'll change your tune.

[Stewie]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1338716953' post='2976465']
Hey if you don't have any problems with being rolled then I have no problems for you. If NG comes knocking at your door I think you'll change your tune.
[/quote]

NG don't want to roll RnR so your point is ((null)).

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1338716953' post='2976465']
Hey if you don't have any problems with being rolled then I have no problems for you. If NG comes knocking at your door I think you'll change your tune.
[/quote]

Maybe. There has been plenty of positive conversation from some new members of Non Grata and R&R. Should fate pit us against eachother, sobeit. I've fought quite a myriad of alliances and it would certainly be fun to face Non Grata. Who knows?

I don't know what potential hear-say or potential geo-political jockeying that is out of my hands has to do with anything. If we fight, we fight. I'm sure it'd be loads of fun.

But that's not even decided.

Edited June 3, 2012 by IYIyTh

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1338717179' post='2976466']
NG don't want to roll RnR so your point is ((null)).
[/quote]

I never said NG wanted to "roll RnR" so your post is ((worthless)).

[Stewie]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1338717268' post='2976468']
I never said NG wanted to "roll RnR" so your post is ((worthless)).
[/quote]


No change there then

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1338718138' post='2976473']
No change there then
[/quote]

I actually like your posts


Oh and congrats to my friends in Symphony and Umbrella. Ironfist and CSM especially, quality people there.

[Silhouette]

Wow. That escalated quickly...

[Stewie]

[quote name='Silhouette' timestamp='1338719691' post='2976479']
Wow. That escalated quickly...
[/quote]

[img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4i32l7dQR1r1b9aso1_400.gif[/img]

Sorry for taking over your thread Symphony

[LegendoftheSkies]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1338669100' post='2976203']We never had a problem with Sparta and didn't had much of a problem with MHA either
[/quote]

Could have fooled the crap out of me.

Being a diplomat on your forums, the sheer amount of "Cancel MHA and Sparta already" and "WHY ARE YOU ALLIED TO BLOCMATES OF AN ALLIANCE THAT WE HATE QQ" that I got from your members on a daily basis was unbelievable. Of course, I personally didn't care much for either alliance at the time seeing as I was a new recruit. That's part of why I was the only one from Umbrella who could stand being there for any length of time. In retrospect, I can certainly understand JA's and everyone else's annoyance though.

God forbid NG has to take anything it dishes out. I must say, that persecution complex transfered over from Poison Clan without a hitch. Never afraid to dish out any amount of abuse, criticism and various other nonsense to your allies, but as soon as they give you any, you start nailing yourself to the cross and bemoaning how saintly you were to your so-called "friend" while you got only grief in return. But please do continue to pretend that it was us who were !@#$%* allies and that PB's problems were everyone's fault but yours. It's an amusing spectacle.

Edited June 3, 2012 by LegendoftheSkies

[mrcalkin]

Needs more !@#$%*ing, only 7 pages of half-assed FUD so far

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1338716042' post='2976461']
Which is pretty stupid and short sighted.
[/quote]

Hadn't you met Myth before?

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1338703661' post='2976394']
Dude, it's not a belief...it's actual text I read on PB high-gov forums and over IRC. Give it a rest. I could handle you guys being dicks to us, but when you suggest going after Valhalla or DT, etc...enough was enough.

Speaking with honesty is so much easier than running the FA washer on spin cycle.
[/quote]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1338669100' post='2976203']
I didn't say you planning (to make it sound like it was just a hypothetical response while it was an active plan is just inane) to hit those alliances is unreasonable, we just couldn't go along with it. It's why we tried to talk that out of your guys head but you didn't seem to listen. Re-read our gov forums and you will see it. It's why we couldn't stay allied to PB anymore. Yes we were present in those discussions but like I said, [b]it's not like we constantly agreed upon that scenario[/b]. We actively tried to steer you guys away from that plan but after it become clear you weren't going to listen to us we more or less said ok we'll see. The thing is however, we were never comfortable with it, thus we discussed it internally and decided that we didn't want to put IRON in that scenario. It then became a matter of you or them, and we chose them over you. [/quote]

I loled at the first quote and the bolded part on the second. It's true you didn't constantly agreed to it, but you - Non Grata - did agree to it quite a few times. From the top of my head I can remember a few quotes that were hardly just "ok we'll see" material.

[quote]I can understand why you feel backstabbed because it severely weakens your alliance. Don't blame that on us though, blame it on yourself.[/quote]

Personally I feel like it's Christmas; kicking you out of PB (or at least trying to) was one of the things I wanted to do when I ran for Umbrella Presidency back in January. Saying that not being allied to you severely weakens our alliance is non-sense beyond the perspective of your 14 million NS because you were, at best, an abusive ally whose selfishness was more decisive than any contribution you ever gave.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1338703661' post='2976394']
Dude, it's not a belief...it's actual text I read on PB high-gov forums and over IRC. Give it a rest. I could handle you guys being dicks to us, but when you suggest going after Valhalla or DT, etc...enough was enough.

Congrats on your treaty....I don't honestly think you treatied them to pull them from MJ. Symphony is only 24 members so I'm guessing you genuinely like them as the only sub 25 member alliance that could do serious damage would be Creole if they liked war.

Speaking with honesty is so much easier than running the FA washer on spin cycle.
[/quote]

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt because you arrived relatively late to PB highgov but that's still bs. Your alliance was 100% for the idea of rolling those guys (though to be fair your alliance is like that about anything rollable) it just benefited you to omit that information.

Thanks, Mj didn't come up at all when discussing this treaty because it doesn't exist anymore, though that was a nice talking point for zoom and arexes to spin it into being about how we were gonna roll Val etc. and how NG would've never considered such a thing and valiantly informed their allies of this heinous plot.

D'you honestly think anyone is buying this white knight crap?

[Monster]

Yes, because the three alliances you listed before don't continue to exist despite the bloc disbanding. It was definitely just the sigs that were a problem and as soon as they stopped being used, it all went away.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Roquentin

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1338755121' post='2976614']
Yes, because the three alliances you listed before don't continue to exist despite the bloc disbanding. It was definitely just the sigs that were a problem and as soon as they stopped being used, it all went away.
[/quote]

Not everyone is super crazy paranoid like you Roq. Yes, some of the alliances from Mjolnir are still close but it's not one entity anymore. It ceased to be when they disbanded it.

[Monster]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1338755568' post='2976615']
Not everyone is super crazy paranoid like you Roq. Yes, some of the alliances from Mjolnir are still close but it's not one entity anymore. It ceased to be when they disbanded it.
[/quote]

I mean, here's the thing: when Mjolnir existed, you made a big deal of not liking three of the alliances in the bloc, so it wouldn't make sense for the issue to cease once those alliances are no longer in a bloc with alliances you have a more favorable opinion of. The hostility towards Mj was primarily based on and directed at those three. Can't have your cake and eat it.

I mean, this isn't paranoia, it's common sense.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Roquentin

[Crymson]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1338663976' post='2976170']
but when PB starts planning for a potential conflict with DR/ex-Mj alliances (because it was looking like the most likely place for a war to break out, we would've been idiots if we didn't plan for that eventuality)
[/quote]

Would you care to explain that one?

[D34th]

All this discussion about MJ make me remember that Ardus' post...

[Stewie]

This one?

[quote]I envision a future where SF can no longer draw the people I know and trust into situation after situation that puts us all at risk (eg SOS-NsO). I envision a future where SF can no longer spread lies and misinformation to get their way. I see XX, a bloc tethered to the whims of a liar and a cheat, reduced so that it can no longer be an implicit threat hanging over us. I hope for a future cemented on the interests of those I've been most concerned for since I started working FA for the Kingdom: C&G-DH-PB. To add the developing Pillowfort to that perspective would only make me happier. I plan on a world where Mjolnir's influence is nominal, even with a hard earned military victory.

I know that to join us in pursuing this requires sacrifice on your part that is almost too much for me to ask. But I cannot abide acts designed to hurt me and mine. I cannot abide Xiph's lying, posturing, and candor anymore. He crossed a first line when he spread the rumors about Mjolnir gunning for Pandora's Box (not true). He crossed the second when he nearly got us all ripped apart in SOS-NsO (I recognize Delta was possibly a bigger hand in that). The last line was the FARK-NoR fiasco. I spoke up in defense of an ideal, that you don't punish people in-game for OOC beliefs, no matter how heinous, and was branded a Nazi for it. MK was told to go to hell. Well to hell with that. And things haven't gotten any better. Just yesterday I had to dispel a rumor Sardonic had picked up from him that MK was looking to sign a treaty with Dark Templar (we're not).

The worst elements of Superfriends and Dos Equis get away with their conduct by surrounding themselves with nicer people who have friends all over the place. Nobody wants to punish what should be punished because it means watching a friend get hurt. But by ignoring such conduct, we're all implicitly condoning it and we're all hurting one another. So looking at the web, MK and I have made a call: we just can't go along with it anymore. I can't sit by and just let Xip isolate and smash one of the few alternative sources of power that remain. I worry that if such occurs, we cross a threshold where Xip's influence derived from XX becomes too great to keep in check, not without recruiting people far worse than Mjolnir and far more willing to cut our throats. I know taking this position requires me to put friends in tough positions and put their friends in even tougher ones. I'd love it if I could resolve as many of those conflicts as possible. Hell, I'd be a happy camper if Sparta weren't potentially involved. I quite like them. But they're set in their ways and I'm set in mine so best I can do is be friendly and carry on. My hope is that I can somehow make it all up to everybody when all is said and done.

I don't plan on starting a war. But I want to be as ready as possible for when one breaks out, as it inevitably will. It might be one bloc into another. It'll more likely be some grey conflict between two proxy states that expands into a total hell. Regardless, the entirety of Pandora's Box is faced with a decision: support him on another mad crusade or let him rot when he finally makes that one last mistake.

As for Polaris--even now I don't want them "gone". I don't have an inherent hatred of Polaris. The fury and frustration I got out of the BiPolar War was mostly satisfied in this last conflict. Hell, I want to like Polaris. They !@#$@#$ stood up for me and mine when few would back in the GCW and UjW. I want more than anything to be able to reward them for that, because Lord knows I never have. What I do have is a deep, deep distrust combined with an ally who does hate Polaris. I've been boned over by NpO more times than I care to count. I've ruined them quite a few times at this point, too. I just don't think something like that can be repaired. And since I've got a close Paradoxian ally who still wants their own revenge, I'm content to just support them.

As for your blocmates that disagree, I've tried reasoning with each of 'em. I think the only one to wholesale reject me is Impero. I think I know why we disagree, but I don't think there's anyway to resolve it without something terrible happening. I think VE will, eventually, come around. At least I hope so. Of all the people that could possibly be hurt by this, seeing them on the opposite side would hurt me most (for personal reasons that should be apparent).[/quote]

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='LegendoftheSkies' timestamp='1338723865' post='2976489']
Could have fooled the crap out of me.

Being a diplomat on your forums, the sheer amount of "Cancel MHA and Sparta already" and "WHY ARE YOU ALLIED TO BLOCMATES OF AN ALLIANCE THAT WE HATE QQ" that I got from your members on a daily basis was unbelievable. Of course, I personally didn't care much for either alliance at the time seeing as I was a new recruit. That's part of why I was the only one from Umbrella who could stand being there for any length of time. In retrospect, I can certainly understand JA's and everyone else's annoyance though.

God forbid NG has to take anything it dishes out. I must say, that persecution complex transfered over from Poison Clan without a hitch. Never afraid to dish out any amount of abuse, criticism and various other nonsense to your allies, but as soon as they give you any, you start nailing yourself to the cross and bemoaning how saintly you were to your so-called "friend" while you got only grief in return. But please do continue to pretend that it was us who were !@#$%* allies and that PB's problems were everyone's fault but yours. It's an amusing spectacle.
[/quote]

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='LegendoftheSkies' timestamp='1338723865' post='2976489']
Could have fooled the crap out of me.

Being a diplomat on your forums, the sheer amount of "Cancel MHA and Sparta already" and "WHY ARE YOU ALLIED TO BLOCMATES OF AN ALLIANCE THAT WE HATE QQ" that I got from your members on a daily basis was unbelievable. Of course, I personally didn't care much for either alliance at the time seeing as I was a new recruit. That's part of why I was the only one from Umbrella who could stand being there for any length of time. In retrospect, I can certainly understand JA's and everyone else's annoyance though.

God forbid NG has to take anything it dishes out. I must say, that persecution complex transfered over from Poison Clan without a hitch. Never afraid to dish out any amount of abuse, criticism and various other nonsense to your allies, but as soon as they give you any, you start nailing yourself to the cross and bemoaning how saintly you were to your so-called "friend" while you got only grief in return. But please do continue to pretend that it was us who were !@#$%* allies and that PB's problems were everyone's fault but yours. It's an amusing spectacle.
[/quote]

Oh, so it wasn't only our embassy that had tons of NG people wanting to also roll ex-mj? The act being put up is amusing.

Fakeedit: last post messed up due to being on my phone sorry mods.

[Stewie]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1338761071' post='2976641']
Oh, so it wasn't only our embassy that had tons of NG people wanting to also roll ex-mj? The act being put up is amusing.
[/quote]

I'd hardly call our January QnA loads of NG people..

Edited June 3, 2012 by Stewie

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1338755840' post='2976618']
I mean, here's the thing: when Mjolnir existed, you made a big deal of not liking three of the alliances in the bloc, so it wouldn't make sense for the issue to cease once those alliances are no longer in a bloc with alliances you have a more favorable opinion of. The hostility towards Mj was primarily based on and directed at those three. Can't have your cake and eat it.

I mean, this isn't paranoia, it's common sense.
[/quote]

It didn't cease at all.

[Jake Liebenow]

Ya know, some people call NG's fear of getting hit back cowardice. I think they're just [i]jealous[/i] of the fact that NG can pick their battles.

Because, ya know, NG can always pick their battles. Right guys?

...

...Guys?