An Umbrella Treaty Announcement

[MCRABT]

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1339151521' post='2979303']
Or perhaps the drivel is diversionary to draw away from the underlying problems that are developed earlier in this thread?


Also the "victim complex," only works in diminishing another's claim when it is being used solely as the basis of their argument. That is not valid in this or any of the instances I think you would indicate a "victim-complex," was used. More often than not it is those whom are outright lambasting others rather responding to the conversation and valid talking points who are actually employing a victim complex that prevents them from responding -- hint -- it's not Roq.

(Also, never? I just did. [img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/ehm.gif[/img])
[/quote]

Well perhaps it is? I don't particularly care as it is irrelevant to my point, you can't claim the moral high ground while rolling around in the muck. I'll break it down a little more for you so you don't misinterpret what I am saying. Regardless of how you present your argument, you and your lot are here for the same reason as the people you so vehemently detest, you come to propagate your views at their expense and think because you go about it in a less abrasive (way at times), you think you arer more justified in pursuing your desired outcome which is inversely the same as your opponents. Thread after thread Roq and his usual suspects turn up to add there bit to discredit MK, NG, Umbrella et al because it serves there political agenda, then when the shoe is put on the other foot the tears flow. It's tittle tattle and neither of you has high ground to claim because your objectives are the same.

The second part of your post is a lot of nonsense, If you took the straw out of Roqs arsehole for a minute you might get a glimpse of the bigger picture.

[Monster]

Vorenus: The point of this venue is to be a political soapbox for people. I resent the thinking that has come to dominate that this is supposed to be some sort of bulletin board or a place where political moves are simply hailed if the parties are relatively well off.

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1339067088' post='2978703']
I think he does a fair share of hating in any thread he has the opportunity, action and reaction, it's a vicious cycle. The victim complex only works when you have the high ground, you gain the high ground by rising above the tittle tattle something you and Roq have never been willing to do.
[/quote]
I don't know about never. In large part, the reason I am in the position I am is that I wasn't as vicious as my current opponents despite seeing everything coming that was and the defamation that took place when I couldn't respond. It's only in response to that string of events I post like this. It wasn't exactly the norm until I had an actual reason to be responsive in that way.

Maybe not responding it would make me a bit more sympathetic, though I doubt that it would in a [b]tangible[/b] sense since it wouldn't change the overall political situation(I guess I'd be on par with Schattenmann or something) but I've never known anyone who would willingly take a string of insults targeted at them as an individual over a long period of time. The hating is retaliatory. I've not liked alliances in a political sense prior to the string of events, but it was in a detached way, even with alliances I really hated, it didn't cross certain boundaries where it became more than just x opposing y. I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way about that particular set of alliances.

I don't see myself as a victim on these forums because people criticize my posting, but I do have issues with getting accused of a long range of items and being sold out whole sale by an alliance I dedicated years to that enjoys the benefits of it. It's kind of the opposite of your sig and the rewards are not in proportion to the service. It's more inversely proportional to the service.

A point you are making about "rising above the tittle tattle" that is adopted by most of the people who don't like the set of the alliances is to withdraw entirely from the forums, which makes opposing viewpoints more rare, and prods me to post more simply because the views aren't represented adequately in this venue. I'm not sure whether or not ceding the forums to a particular political grouping has been the wisest of choices for them, however. I would more than welcome a time where I could just say "well, everyone said what I wanted to say."

Despite most of the alliances that are actively disliked by the grouping you mentioned being quiet, they are still attacked every time they post and it makes them no more sympathetic.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Roquentin

[MCRABT]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1339172307' post='2979430']
Vorenus: The point of this venue is to be a political soapbox for people. I resent the thinking that has come to dominate that this is supposed to be some sort of bulletin board or a place where political moves are simply hailed if the parties are relatively well off.


I don't know about never. In large part, the reason I am in the position I am is that I wasn't as vicious as my current opponents despite seeing everything coming that was and the defamation that took place when I couldn't respond. It's only in response to that string of events I post like this. It wasn't exactly the norm until I had an actual reason to be responsive in that way.

Maybe not responding it would make me a bit more sympathetic, though I doubt that it would in a [b]tangible[/b] sense since it wouldn't change the overall political situation(I guess I'd be on par with Schattenmann or something) but I've never known anyone who would willingly take a string of insults targeted at them as an individual over a long period of time. The hating is retaliatory. I've not liked alliances in a political sense prior to the string of events, but it was in a detached way, even with alliances I really hated, it didn't cross certain boundaries where it became more than just x opposing y. I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way about that particular set of alliances.

I don't see myself as a victim on these forums because people criticize my posting, but I do have issues with getting accused of a long range of items and being sold out whole sale by an alliance I dedicated years to that enjoys the benefits of it. It's kind of the opposite of your sig and the rewards are not in proportion to the service. It's more inversely proportional to the service.

A point you are making about "rising above the tittle tattle" that is adopted by most of the people who don't like the set of the alliances is to withdraw entirely from the forums, which makes opposing viewpoints more rare, and prods me to post more simply because the views aren't represented adequately in this venue. I'm not sure whether or not ceding the forums to a particular political grouping has been the wisest of choices for them, however. I would more than welcome a time where I could just say "well, everyone said what I wanted to say."

Despite most of the alliances that are actively disliked by the grouping you mentioned being quiet, they are still attacked every time they post and it makes them no more sympathetic.
[/quote]

Absolutely nothing wrong with any of what you said buddy, I don't expect you to rise above the tittle tattle in fact it would probably lead to the situation you described above and would be counter productive to playing your role within the community. People should see it for what it is however, two opposing factions pursuing their own political agendas. Thus as explained above complaints about "Roq hate fes" hold as much weight as a paper clip. You will try to discredit those who you hold grievances with and they will return the favour by any means at their disposal. As you have quite rightly pointed out, it is in ones own interest to counter views that attempt to bring discredit, you wouldn't expect undermining the influence of major alliances to be easy and if it was success would taste rather bland now wouldn't it.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1339155845' post='2979320']
Well perhaps it is? I don't particularly care as it is irrelevant to my point, you can't claim the moral high ground while rolling around in the muck. I'll break it down a little more for you so you don't misinterpret what I am saying. Regardless of how you present your argument, you and your lot are here for the same reason as the people you so vehemently detest, you come to propagate your views at their expense and think because you go about it in a less abrasive (way at times), [/quote]


Would you disagree there is a difference between sheer abrasiveness and muck-rolling? I think there certainly is. I also think people and their feelings are non-linear. For example, my feelings on anyone here change on a myriad of factors. I don't think it would be wise for someone three years from now to walk into a random meeting and yell "Yeah well $%&@ you for that one time three years ago," just as much I don't think it really makes sense to ignore a valid statement five days later for the same reason.

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1339155845' post='2979320']
you think you arer more justified in pursuing your desired outcome which is inversely the same as your opponents. Thread after thread Roq and his usual suspects turn up to add there bit to discredit MK, NG, Umbrella et al because it serves there political agenda, then when the shoe is put on the other foot the tears flow. It's tittle tattle and neither of you has high ground to claim because your objectives are the same. [/quote]

Not everyone was dissing all three. Some were only picking one, two, three, or ignoring them and the topic altogether. I think I personally started with two and then went back to one, then switched which one. Refusing to read causes these misconceptions.

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1339155845' post='2979320']
The second part of your post is a lot of nonsense, If you took the straw out of Roqs arsehole for a minute you might get a glimpse of the bigger picture.
[/quote]


I actually critiqued him. While you have clearly indicated you wish to hold some sort of grudge towards Roq that's your choosing, but don't be surprised when not everyone shares it. You certainly have motive to attempt to discredit anyone and everyone you perceive to harbor ill will towards you, granted. But I don't think it's necessary to disrupt conversation simply because of what someone said multiple pages ago. But C'est la vie. Damage has already been done.


Also:
That's kind of gross. I don't even know how that would work [img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif[/img]

Edited June 8, 2012 by IYIyTh