Some info on Dulra

[jerdge]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1333391089' post='2947375']Neutrals are bad and [blah blah blah][/quote]
It's quite stupid of you to continue to insist that everyone should play, think and do exactly as you think they should. You keep acting in the same away towards everyone. [i]Everyone[/i].
Get over yourself and realize that people aren't "bad" or "evil" just because they don't play the game the way you think it "has" to be played. You're not the measure of CN.



[quote name='Gairyuki' timestamp='1333401558' post='2947423']OBR and other neutral alliances in this world are neutral because they exclude themselves from the community at large, and the rest of CN hates that because the community is the only thing keeping this world intact. Neutrals leech off the collective efforts of the rest of us and have the ability to return to the community at any time without having to suffer the consequences of playing what many would consider a game of thrones. GPA, OBR, WTF, etc are all massive NS sinks that serve no purpose but to drown the world in inactivity, whereas the rest of us are actively playing the game. Neutrality is a crippling disease on this community.[/quote]
Neutrals aren't excluded, there's a constant flux of people, ideas and communication in and out each neutral alliance. People that would have otherwise left the game remain into it because they can still be neutral in it. The idea that neutrals would drown anyone in inactivity is also quite retarded, unless you claim that people are somehow forced to stupidly stare at the neutrals instead of doing something (it may be true for you, but it's certainly not generalized).
If anything it's the mind-numbing treaty web that you treaty hoarders created that forces the political game to move at a snail's pace.

[quote name='Gairyuki' timestamp='1333401558' post='2947423']The fact that everyone is more interested in the simple number of damages one of your nukes will do over the well-being of your nation should clue you in to how much the community at large really cares about the number 1 spot. Those dissenters who think you're being victimized should really be overjoyed that a few rogues are bringing you and OBR back within our realm of activity, politics and conflict. Your overzealous and pretentious sense of self-worth and opinions of entitlement to share common ground with the likes of Rebel Virginia or Roq really show me how profoundly mistaken you are in what binds us together against you.[/quote]
You're not "the rest of CN", nor "everyone" either. Stop trying to sell your spin like it was what everyone else thinks: it isn't.

Edit: syntax.

Edited April 2, 2012 by jerdge

[Monster]

Except, it's not just me and I don't unilaterally hold any positions. Plenty of people want to roll you. Get over yourself with your namby pamby delusions.

[Altheus]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1333405635' post='2947461']
It is a disease and it doesn't matter what they owe. Simply put, whenever someone gains enough of an upperhand, it won't be limited to roguing or rogue assistance in terms of actions people take against neutrals.
[/quote]

You're missing the point. I'm not saying people should refrain from rolling the neutrals if that's where their IC beliefs take them, I'm saying they should refrain from calling them a "disease" on an OOC forum.

The accusation was that neutrals are bad for the game. I would argue that they're not, but again that would be missing the point. The point is that they have as much right to play the game as anyone else. Sure there might be IC consequences to those choices, but that doesn't take away that right.

[jerdge]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1333406472' post='2947471']Plenty of people want to roll you.[/quote]
Now you will surely think that I am shocked at this revelation.

[Monster]

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1333406592' post='2947474']
Now you will surely think that I am shocked at this revelation.
[/quote]
The issue is, you continue to insist it's not viable. Take the NAMBLA case for example that was a little fun Rayvon and someone else had. You were entirely reliant on VE's muscle because you weren't going to do anything to UINE about it and avoided any hardline stances. So if they had just told you to sod off, it'd have been VE being the reason any action would be possible.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Roquentin

[jerdge]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1333406705' post='2947475']The issue is, you continue to insist it's not viable. Take the NAMBLA case for example that was a little fun Rayvon and someone else had. You were entirely reliant on VE's muscle because you weren't going to do anything to UINE about it and avoided any hardline stances.[/quote]
I surely didn't say that anything is not viable.
The only NAMBLA I remember was Lennox's one, Rayvon had nothing to do with it, I have no idea if VE ever knew or cared about it, I don't know what UINE has to do with it all.

Basically, I have no idea of what you're talking of, and I suspect you don't either.

Edited April 2, 2012 by jerdge

[Monster]

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1333406939' post='2947476']
I surely didn't say that anything is not viable.
The only NAMBLA I remember was Lennox's one, Rayvon had nothing to do with it, I have no idea if VE ever knew or cared about it, I don't know what UINE has to do with it all.

Basically, I have no idea of what you're talking of, and I suspect you don't either.
[/quote]

I guess your lack of seniority is showing itself. I don't have the logs on me at the moment.

They were both somewhat involved. VE knew and cared about it and was in communication with GPA the entire time.

Lennox went under UINE's protection with Crimson Fists and initially didn't want to pay reps.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Roquentin

[Seerow]

[quote name='omfghi2u2' timestamp='1333404299' post='2947448']
I mean I could do the numbers but it is much different seeing it through a message. It is like the difference between drinking beer from a can and a bottle.

Appreciate the number crunching though!

-omfg
[/quote]

So you mean if I had just left out the numbers/calculation, and edited an old nuclear attack report to show the exact same thing, it would have made a real difference to you?

Can I just take a second to point out how incredibly stupid that is?

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1333404667' post='2947453']
Is 3.6 billion really enough to to keep up with the costs of military arms at 45k tech though?

I mean, it costs myself 9 million to replace 105 planes at 9k tech. So it must cost her an astronomical amount.

I could be wrong (I have no intention of actually crunching numbers).
[/quote]

The military cost increase scaling is pretty linear, so the cost of fighting does get high, but not too terrible. If Hime goes through more than 400mil in the first week of fighting I'd be shocked. (I specify the first week because the cost of fighting war goes down dramatically as stats go down)

[Seerow]

edit: double post

Edited April 2, 2012 by Seerow

[jerdge]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1333407005' post='2947478']I guess your lack of seniority is showing itself. I don't have the logs on me at the moment.

They were both somewhat involved. VE knew and cared about it and was in communication with GPA the entire time.

Lennox went under UINE's protection with Crimson Fists and initially didn't want to pay reps.[/quote]
I have been GPA government all the time, and I can guarantee to you that I very well know what I am talking of. Rayvon was not involved as far as we knew and know, and I very much doubt that you can prove otherwise - but you're welcome to.

Lennox tried to run here and there and everybody was treating him like a ghost. He eventually paid substantial reps, he later decided it was a good idea to rogue us again and he was then sentenced to ZI (even our patience ends), which IIRC he didn't serve because he deleted (which I was sad for). He then came back again, doing stuff that made him a lil bit more famous.

Now I am [i]really[/i] heading off. Bye!

[Monster]

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1333407452' post='2947486']
I have been GPA government all the time, and I can guarantee to you that I very well know what I am talking of. Rayvon was not involved as far as we knew and know, and I very much doubt that you can prove otherwise - but you're welcome to.

Lennox tried to run here and there and everybody was treating him like a ghost. He eventually paid substantial reps, he later decided it was a good idea to rogue us again and he was then sentenced to ZI (even our patience ends), which IIRC he didn't serve because he deleted (which I was sad for). He then came back again, doing stuff that made him a lil bit more famous.

Now I am [i]really[/i] heading off. Bye!
[/quote]

Were you GPA gov in late 2010? If so, how did you not know VE was involved? He paid reps because it was a condition for him being in Polar when he ended up going there.

Fine then.

edit: I'll take it to pm or something.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Roquentin

[the rebel]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1333405635' post='2947461']
It is a disease and it doesn't matter what they owe. Simply put, whenever someone gains enough of an upperhand, it won't be limited to roguing or rogue assistance in terms of actions people take against neutrals.[/quote]

So apart from your countless thread hijacking, you seem to go out of your way to hate or be hated by: neutrals, the DH alliances, anyone who has treaties with DH, anyone who is not allied to them and doing nothing about them. I'm sure I've missed some other ones, but I've covered most of the people in the community.

[Monster]

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1333408879' post='2947492']
So apart from your countless thread hijacking, you seem to go out of your way to hate or be hated by: neutrals, the DH alliances, anyone who has treaties with DH, anyone who is not allied to them and doing nothing about them. I'm sure I've missed some other ones, but I've covered most of the people in the community.
[/quote]

What can I say? I've avoided being a traditional politician. If I wanted to be some milquetoast person that doesn't actually say what they really think, I could have stayed in Umbrella. That's the only difference between then and now.

It's easy to pander to everyone and try to be all things to all people, all too easy and try to be everyone's friend even when their stances are completely incongruent with yours. I know being a straight shooter isn't traditional around here, but that's what I am.

I hate when people don't do anything but that doesn't make an intrinsic hatred of anyone in particular. I see a lot of placid alliances that never make any stirs and it bores me.

If I want to be friends with everyone, I'd have skyped a lot more often before and now. The political is the personal for me in terms of actually playing this game.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Roquentin

[Vol Navy]

[quote name='Gairyuki' timestamp='1333401558' post='2947423']
GPA, OBR, WTF, etc are all massive NS sinks that serve no purpose but to drown the world in inactivity, whereas the rest of us are actively playing the game. Neutrality is a crippling disease on this community.

[/quote]

DH should probably roll them to end this threat.

[steodonn]

DH and Roq team up one last time to destroy the neutral menace [img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/smug.gif[/img]

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1333408879' post='2947492']
So apart from your countless thread hijacking, you seem to go out of your way to hate or be hated by: neutrals, the DH alliances, anyone who has treaties with DH, anyone who is not allied to them and doing nothing about them. I'm sure I've missed some other ones, but I've covered most of the people in the community.
[/quote]

To be fair, the neutrals are terrible.

[Innerspeaker]

[quote name='Altheus' timestamp='1333405329' post='2947460']
What a load of self-righteous propaganda. And on the OOC forums too. Get this, the neutrals owe you [b]nothing[/b], they're playing the game as they see fit and to make out that's a "disease" is pretty insulting.

If they bother you that much just ignore them.
[/quote]

They're playing a game that we (anyone not in a neutral alliance) have created for them. Do you not understand that the politics, culture and communities of non-neutral alliances have directly contributed to the state of the world today (that state being not-dead)? Whereas the neutrals have provided nothing to further the world, every other alliance has at least contributed its NS in some form, whether to win or lose. The game neutrals are playing "as they see fit" remains fit because of the sacrifices and the initiative of the rest of us. As long as neutrality exists in CN, a select group of alliances will continue to leech away a larger share of this world's NS, where it will rot and decay and further deprive the real players of their means to play the game.

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1333409849' post='2947498']
DH should probably roll them to end this threat.
[/quote]

For all intents and purposes, that seems like an ideal way of forcing several hundred "players" back into the community at large.

What exactly is the difference between a group of nations that do nothing but collect meaningless stats, and a group of people who aren't playing the game? There is no difference. The game is defined by who does what with their accumulated NS; not doing anything with it means not playing the game. Escaping to neutral territory is like stepping out of bounds for a free, penalty-less break. Growing up in neutral territory is no different than a player joining the game and on day one, having XX,XXX amount of NS (which would take far longer if he or she was playing in the actual community).

Hime Themis' 45k tech is totally irrelevant to the rest of the world if she's not putting it to good use (war). For every massive nation in OBR or GPA or wherever, that's one less nation that the community can benefit from. The game cannot be played if everyone is not contributing.

[Blacky]

On The [i]Do-Nothings[/i],

Evil could not occur if everybody who could do something to stop it did. That being said Dulra plays the game his way, and the nations attacking him play the game their way. Neither is more justifiable than the other.

[Dajobo]

How people can criticise donations and then complain the person who made them contributes nothing defies logic.
Bandwidth and programming time aren't free you know! Personally I think someone should be applauded for contributions that help enable us all to enjoy CN.

[the rebel]

[quote name='Gairyuki' timestamp='1333411278' post='2947509']
The game cannot be played if everyone is not contributing.[/quote]

Last I looked this is a Political/nation simulation not a war simulation and the neutrals are playing a role similar to Switzerland.

On topic: I reckon Hime will still maintain number 1 spot, so nothing much would have changed.

[Monster]

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1333412608' post='2947522']
Last I looked this is a Political/nation simulation not a war simulation and the neutrals are playing a role similar to Switzerland.

On topic: I reckon Hime will still maintain number 1 spot, so nothing much would have changed.
[/quote]

Except if you violate Switzerland's sovereignty, they'll actually do something. Like I said, it's far more pacifistic in this game than armed neutrality. If I was hiding people who are blowing stuff up in Bern, they'd have a real issue with it. Hell, especially if it wasn't hiding and it was an open invitation.

It's one thing to be neutral, another to be a doormat.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Roquentin

[sighet]

Can we return to the posting when we made fun Methax..

[Monster]

[quote name='Gairyuki' timestamp='1333411278' post='2947509']
They're playing a game that we (anyone not in a neutral alliance) have created for them. Do you not understand that the politics, culture and communities of non-neutral alliances have directly contributed to the state of the world today (that state being not-dead)? Whereas the neutrals have provided nothing to further the world, every other alliance has at least contributed its NS in some form, whether to win or lose. The game neutrals are playing "as they see fit" remains fit because of the sacrifices and the initiative of the rest of us. As long as neutrality exists in CN, a select group of alliances will continue to leech away a larger share of this world's NS, where it will rot and decay and further deprive the real players of their means to play the game.



For all intents and purposes, that seems like an ideal way of forcing several hundred "players" back into the community at large.

What exactly is the difference between a group of nations that do nothing but collect meaningless stats, and a group of people who aren't playing the game? There is no difference. The game is defined by who does what with their accumulated NS; not doing anything with it means not playing the game. Escaping to neutral territory is like stepping out of bounds for a free, penalty-less break. Growing up in neutral territory is no different than a player joining the game and on day one, having XX,XXX amount of NS (which would take far longer if he or she was playing in the actual community).

Hime Themis' 45k tech is totally irrelevant to the rest of the world if she's not putting it to good use (war). For every massive nation in OBR or GPA or wherever, that's one less nation that the community can benefit from. The game cannot be played if everyone is not contributing.
[/quote]


The thing is, even if you roll neutrals, they won't do anything and won't even want revenge. They'll agree to any terms once you've grinded them down and be neutral towards the people who rolled them.

A lot of them will quit definitely once simcity is no longer a viable option, so it won't force them into the community.

Edited April 3, 2012 by Roquentin

[Phineas]

I honestly don't understand this line of argument that somehow neutrals are not a part of our community.

[Stewie]

Neutrals do not tend to engage with anyone beyond their own forums.