A Joint Statement from Kaskus and Mongols

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1332551776' post='2942423']
im sure in some cases being consistent can be a poor choice, just as being inconsistent can be a poor choice. there's a quote for everything.

i guess the technical reason this war is continuing, as i understand it from my position, is that MONGOLS won't talk to us about terms, and Kaskus wont surrender until MONGOLS do. for what that's worth.

me and bitburg got along pretty well. he mentioned MONGOLS and GOONS were very similar. unfortunately he committed an act of war against us and for whatever reason, decided fighting to deletion would be a good idea.
[/quote]
With the way you guys like to discuss terms, which involves those you're fighting either kissing the feet of GOONS for your membership's entertainment or paying a huge amount of reps, I can understand why they don't want to talk with you guys about terms.

[Aeros]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1332530833' post='2942261']
Honestly, this is the kind of reviling that GOONS needs. All of the trying to e-lawyer/philosophize/wall-of-text-at them about every single thing they do is boring and pointless. Bring something fresh to the table, and I'm sure they'll engange in a much more entertaining manner.
[/quote]


Well, here is a novel idea.

The law of Diminishing Returns.

Wherein, the longer an alliance pounds on a weaker foe, the less likely they are to achieve any strategic or economic gain. And of course, nuclear weapons are a force multiplier that diminish the returns considerably.

If GOONS fights this to the bloody end, and forces the destruction of Kaskus and Mongol, what will they have achieved? Deterrence from future problems? Please. This is a side show. If GOONS were to try and similar effort of destruction on a serious alliance, they would burn alongside the intended target. You also have to consider the incentives involved. What is the incentive of exhorbitant reparations if simply deletion and reformation of the destroyed nations guarantees more money for the destroyed target? Punitively destructive reparations only encourage recalcitrance and perpetual conflict unto the end.

And once that end is reached, what has GOONS and Doomhouse achieved? They have stomped on a few Micro Alliance at the cost of over a Billion Dongs (or Dollars). This is classic Great Power folly, and I find it amusing at how cavalier you all are at falling into it.

[mattski133]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1332552020' post='2942426']
With the way you guys like to discuss terms, which involves those you're fighting either kissing the feet of GOONS for your membership's entertainment or paying a huge amount of reps, I can understand why they don't want to talk with you guys about terms.
[/quote]

I've never talked to Sardonic about terms, but I assume he's as straight forward as he is with anything else. MONGOLS aren't exactly ballerinas either, as evidenced by bitburg's tale of my mouth and reproductive fluid.

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1332552119' post='2942427']
Well, here is a novel idea.

The law of Diminishing Returns.

Wherein, the longer an alliance pounds on a weaker foe, the less likely they are to achieve any strategic or economic gain. And of course, nuclear weapons are a force multiplier that diminish the returns considerably.

If GOONS fights this to the bloody end, and forces the destruction of Kaskus and Mongol, what will they have achieved? Deterrence from future problems? Please. This is a side show. If GOONS were to try and similar effort of destruction on a serious alliance, they would burn alongside the intended target. You also have to consider the incentives involved. What is the incentive of exhorbitant reparations if simply deletion and reformation of the destroyed nations guarantees more money for the destroyed target? Punitively destructive reparations only encourage recalcitrance and perpetual conflict unto the end.

And once that end is reached, what has GOONS and Doomhouse achieved? They have stomped on a few Micro Alliance at the cost of over a Billion Dongs (or Dollars). This is classic Great Power folly, and I find it amusing at how cavalier you all are at falling into it.
[/quote]

1) i don't think you can look at goons as a stand alone alliance, when it comes to military ops in a real war.
2) the reps were $180 mil, slightly less than my warchest when i entered this war. it's a small sum of money. this isn't 2006.
3) the achievement is that we defended ourselves from attack. were we supposed to throw our hands up when Kaskus DOW'd? (that was rhetorical)

[Aeros]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1332552794' post='2942433']
1) i don't think you can look at goons as a stand alone alliance, when it comes to military ops in a real war.
2) the reps were $180 mil, slightly less than my warchest when i entered this war. it's a small sum of money. this isn't 2006.
3) the achievement is that we defended ourselves from attack. were we supposed to throw our hands up when Kaskus DOW'd? (that was rhetorical)
[/quote]


I'm not discounting the legitimacy of you fighting Kaskus. I'm just curious why you feel its necessary to extract reparations from them. They were after all, defending an Allied party. I could maybe understand reps from Mongols, but they have made it clear they would rather be destroyed.

And either way, what exactly is it the destruction of Kaskus and Mongols going to accomplish? Will your strategic position be improved by the death of these two alliances? I am thinking not, though perhaps you think otherwise?

Edited March 24, 2012 by Aeros

[Matthew Conrad]

Heh, the drama here has really gone down hill since last I checked a year ago.

[Phineas]

[quote name='mattski133' timestamp='1332551776' post='2942423']
im sure in some cases being consistent can be a poor choice, just as being inconsistent can be a poor choice. there's a quote for everything.[/quote]

Oh yes. A stitch in time saves nine. Fool me once, we won't get fooled again... I see where you're going.

Now let's expand and reflect for but an instant.
[i]
With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall...[/i]

How do you not bore even yourself?

[i]We pass for what we are. [/i]

[quote]
i guess the technical reason this war is continuing, as i understand it from my position, is that MONGOLS won't talk to us about terms, and Kaskus wont surrender until MONGOLS do. for what that's worth.[/quote]

Perhaps a reading or a re-reading of the thread about how this war escalated on your mercy board would be of help?

[quote]
me and bitburg got along pretty well. he mentioned MONGOLS and GOONS were very similar. unfortunately he committed an act of war against us and for whatever reason, decided fighting to deletion would be a good idea.
[/quote]

Hmmm... how very perplexing, this... Bitburg is a cool dude, indeed.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1332554236' post='2942437']
I'm not discounting the legitimacy of you fighting Kaskus. I'm just curious why you feel its necessary to extract reparations from them. They were after all, defending an Allied party. I could maybe understand reps from Mongols, but they have made it clear they would rather be destroyed.

And either way, what exactly is it the destruction of Kaskus and Mongols going to accomplish? Will your strategic position be improved by the death of these two alliances? I am thinking not, though perhaps you think otherwise?
[/quote]
You keep asking these questions despite being answered repeatedly. To answer them yet again: it's necessary to get reps from Kaskus because they DoWed on us. That's our policy. End of story. What's it going to accomplish? Us upholding our policy. We haven't made exceptions for this policy in the past for people "just defending an ally" because that's what the vast majority of DoWs are over. We're not about to give people free reign to attack us without consequences. A better question is what they plan to accomplish. Do you think their strategic position is going to improve by destroying all their nations? Think about it: they're the ones making this war last. Our offer is on the table and they're choosing war over it. It's not our fault their destruction is currently ongoing.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL11.jpg[/img]

[Phineas]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1332557533' post='2942467']
You keep asking these questions despite being answered repeatedly. To answer them yet again: it's necessary to get reps from Kaskus because they DoWed on us. That's our policy. End of story. What's it going to accomplish? Us upholding our policy. We haven't made exceptions for this policy in the past for people "just defending an ally" because that's what the vast majority of DoWs are over. We're not about to give people free reign to attack us without consequences. A better question is what they plan to accomplish. Do you think their strategic position is going to improve by destroying all their nations? Think about it: they're the ones making this war last. Our offer is on the table and they're choosing war over it. It's not our fault their destruction is currently ongoing.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL11.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

So what you are saying is your FP really is just beating your head against the wall?

[img]http://i.imgur.com/7mNiI.jpg[/img]

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Phineas' timestamp='1332558049' post='2942470']
So what you are saying is your FP really is just beating your head against the wall?

[img]http://i.imgur.com/7mNiI.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
You should seek an education from your betters if you cannot comprehend the virtue of upholding policy.

[Aeros]

I suppose I just come from the school of thought that say's diplomacy is an Art rather then a Science. Rigid policies and operating procedures lead to disaster in the end. But good luck in your endeavors. As long as they are meaningful to you, that's what matters I suppose.

[Phineas]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1332560347' post='2942485']
You should seek an education from your betters if you cannot comprehend the virtue of upholding policy.
[/quote]

I've tried, but RUKUNU never answers my love letters.

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1332560707' post='2942487']
I suppose I just come from the school of thought that say's diplomacy is an Art rather then a Science. Rigid policies and operating procedures lead to disaster in the end. But good luck in your endeavors. As long as they are meaningful to you, that's what matters I suppose.
[/quote]

Good point.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1332512600' post='2942144']
[snip]
[/quote]

I'm absolutely tickled pink that in a post in which you extol GOONs for a perception of our dehumanization of victims you describe us in such an equally dehumanizing fashion.

(I suppose I can't say it was entirely equal; you did avoid gay jokes after all. )

[Beefspari]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1332563974' post='2942501']
I'm absolutely tickled pink that in a post in which you extol GOONs for a perception of our dehumanization of victims you describe us in such an equally dehumanizing fashion.
[/quote]
I wasn't even thinking about that. I was thinking how one-sided the rant is. Yes, we were making fun of someone in the mercy board -- where people who've made terrible decisions go. But it's not as if we only take jabs at foreigners. On the same page, in fact the entry just before the MONGOLS one, is a thread with a title I can't legally restate here. Which insults and makes fun of an idiot goon who did stupid things and is now gone. A more recent entry, the ongoing story of one of our more terrible members of all time, and several pages citing his idiotic exploits. A few entries down, two entries titled "I @#$%ed Up" where goons beg for forgiveness from their peers (something I've done myself). Our hall of shame includes a sixteen page thread of an incompetent member who is insulted page after page for baffling life decisions before his nation disappears for even stupider things. Our goldmine's latest entry is a "don't be like this guy" thread about the life and times of one of the worst goon nations ever. It's just that some foreigners have such thin skin. Although I find that suggestion hard to believe, or have much sympathy for the feelings of MONGOLS: [i]literally their entire Mercy entry was vulgar, personal insults of one goon member after another[/i], lovingly titled "[url="http://cngoons.com/board/index.php?topic=11217.msg117327#msg117327"]OK you HOMO's here it is[/url]." I suppose Schat conveniently forgot that or didn't think it an important detail.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL2.jpg[/img]

[Phineas]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1332563974' post='2942501']
I'm absolutely tickled pink that in a post in which you extol GOONs for a perception of our dehumanization of victims you describe us in such an equally dehumanizing fashion.
[/quote]

Calling someone bad now makes me bad?

This changes everything!

[SirWilliam]

Read that again, Phineas. That's not what that says.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='Phineas' timestamp='1332566103' post='2942513']
Calling someone bad now makes me bad?

This changes everything!
[/quote]
Oh dear. I think you skipped a stop on that train of thought.

[Phineas]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1332566287' post='2942515']
Read that again, Phineas. That's not what that says.
[/quote]


Okay, if I throw napalm on your alliance, this makes me just as bad as your throwing napalm on whoever you want to?

Am I getting closer?

[Dr William Westcher]

On an equally relevant note, I just peed on a midget.

[Phineas]

[quote name='Dr William Westcher' timestamp='1332567534' post='2942524']
On an equally relevant note, I just peed on a midget.
[/quote]

It's a damn good thing I have my paraguas with me.

Also, FWIW, I'm just a tad over 4'10.

Now, where were we? Oh, watching the only circus in town, the GOONIES doing what they do best: grind alliances to nothingness over inconsequential things.

Kaskus, Mongols and hell even NEW, if you ever want someone to practice your English with and want to stick around, hit me up. As far as I see this war and some soon to follow, especially after reading all of these threads (and the OOC Indonesian connection) the only thing really hurting you really seems to be a language barrier.

You guys have the right idea, the GOONS... not so much.

[Lord Caparo]

[quote name='Phineas' timestamp='1332571579' post='2942537']
It's a damn good thing I have my paraguas with me.

Also, FWIW, I'm just a tad over 4'10.

Now, where were we? Oh, watching the only circus in town, the GOONIES doing what they do best: grind alliances to nothingness over inconsequential things.

Kaskus, Mongols and hell even NEW, if you ever want someone to practice your English with and want to stick around, hit me up. As far as I see this war and some soon to follow, especially after reading all of these threads (and the OOC Indonesian connection) the only thing really hurting you really seems to be a language barrier.

You guys have the right idea, the GOONS... not so much.
[/quote]


Well Im australian (: hehe, they learn from me but the more the merrier as Coekrix says with his daily chats abotu histroy with an INT member.

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='Phineas' timestamp='1332566437' post='2942518']
Okay, if I throw napalm on your alliance, this makes me just as bad as your throwing napalm on whoever you want to?

Am I getting closer?
[/quote]
But... that's further away. You just added a needless analogy...

[Dr William Westcher]

[quote name='Phineas' timestamp='1332571579' post='2942537']
It's a damn good thing I have my paraguas with me.

Also, FWIW, I'm just a tad over 4'10.

Now, where were we? Oh, watching the only circus in town, the GOONIES doing what they do best: grind alliances to nothingness over inconsequential things.

Kaskus, Mongols and hell even NEW, if you ever want someone to practice your English with and want to stick around, hit me up. As far as I see this war and some soon to follow, especially after reading all of these threads (and the OOC Indonesian connection) the only thing really hurting you really seems to be a language barrier.

You guys have the right idea, the GOONS... not so much.
[/quote]

Speaking of the Goonies, did you guys ever think about trying to just give GOONS a Babe Ruth? Thats how they dealt with Sloth- probably a universal solution.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Phineas' timestamp='1332571579' post='2942537']
Now, where were we? Oh, watching the only circus in town, the GOONIES doing what they do best: grind alliances to nothingness over inconsequential things.
[/quote]
Okay, since you brought it up, you can answer this for me. Why is it our fault this war is ongoing? MONGOLS were given multiple chances to end the conflict. More than one before it even started. Instead they've been insistent on not paying a dime. They haven't made any attempt to discuss, negotiate, or counter-offer whatsoever. And it's not just reps, either. Rather than attempt a Mercy term they just insulted us. So why should we be bending over backward to give peace to people who indicated they'd rather just suicide 40 nations against us until they all delete? Why should the winning party have to do all of the leg work? Why should we be expected to offer white peace to anyone who just doesn't "feel like" paying reps? Historically this has been everyone who has ever fought us, and most of the people who haven't. Yes, we're currently in the process of grinding alliances into nothingness, but it's because they have absolutely no interest in attempting to attain peace. How is that [i][b]our[/b][/i] fault?
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris9_9L4.jpg[/img]

[Phineas]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1332596454' post='2942590']
Okay, since you brought it up, you can answer this for me. Why is it our fault this war is ongoing? [/quote]

When you push people into a corner and don't given them realistic, let alone honorable options, this is what results.

I'm sure you see this.

[quote]MONGOLS were given multiple chances to end the conflict. More than one before it even started.[/quote]

And all were insults. That might work with some, but you are dealing with nations who'd much rather fight than kiss anyone's ass.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Matthew Conrad' timestamp='1332555587' post='2942447']
Heh, the drama here has really gone down hill since last I checked a year ago.
[/quote]

cya next year