A Joint Statement from Kaskus and Mongols

[Phineas]

[quote name='Lord Caparo' timestamp='1332729838' post='2943154']
Why should we activate an Optional treaty if we weren't attacked?
[/quote]

You are clearly being attacked, and it was even premeditated. The GOONS wanted to get to you via the MONGOLS, that much is clear.

In terms of basic common sense, that makes your war defending the Mongols far more defensive than aggressive. Yes I know oDoAPs don't usually address this kind of a situation, which is a real shame.

But also, don't take me the wrong way here, I'm very understanding of keeping some powder dry for the next big kahuna.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Phineas

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Phineas' timestamp='1332730480' post='2943158']
You are clearly being attacked, and it was even premeditated. The GOONS wanted to get to you via the MONGOLS, that much is clear.
[/quote]
That's not true.

Edit: To clarify, the relationship between Kaskus and MONGOLS had nothing to do with our dealings with MONGOLS.

The fact that they intervened to assist their ally was certainly hoped for by our membership and certainly served to spice the war up a little, but to claim premeditation on the part of our government based on Kaskus' reaction is preposterous. We had no clear idea as to whether they would honour the treaty or not, nor did we care if they did because, in essence, it really was none of their business. If the MONGOLS had settled this in the first instance (i.e. actually negotiated using diplomacy rather than rejecting it altogether), we wouldn't be here talking about this.

Where is your evidence of this premeditation?

Edited March 26, 2012 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[Phineas]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1332731375' post='2943163']
That's not true.
[/quote]

Your alliance calculates out every action like this much more carefully than you'd ever admit in public.

You're really not any different than any other alliance [b][i]in this regard[/i][/b].

I can appreciate that and consider your response in that context.

[Canik]

MONGOLS should not have pushed the issue with their apparent political isolation. GOONS piss off people on a daily basis. If you want GOONS destroyed all you have to do is wait.

[Lord Caparo]

[quote name='Phineas' timestamp='1332730480' post='2943158']
You are clearly being attacked, and it was even premeditated. The GOONS wanted to get to you via the MONGOLS, that much is clear.

In terms of basic common sense, that makes your war defending the Mongols far more defensive than aggressive. Yes I know oDoAPs don't usually address this kind of a situation, which is a real shame.

But also, don't take me the wrong way here, I'm very understanding of keeping some powder dry for the next big kahuna.
[/quote]


Im not going against your argument at all.

I understand exactly where you are coming from, Mongols asked us to stay out, we refused and therefore we told Menotah and The Biohazard Corp to stay out of this.

We know they would like to defend us, but they are our friends and we dont want to see them burn for someone who is our ally and not theres.

[Phineas]

[quote name='Canik' timestamp='1332732450' post='2943170']
MONGOLS should not have pushed the issue with their apparent political isolation. GOONS piss off people on a daily basis. If you want GOONS destroyed all you have to do is wait.
[/quote]

Agreed.

[quote name='Lord Caparo' timestamp='1332732497' post='2943171']
Im not going against your argument at all.

I understand exactly where you are coming from, Mongols asked us to stay out, we refused and therefore we told Menotah and The Biohazard Corp to stay out of this.

We know they would like to defend us, but they are our friends and we dont want to see them burn for someone who is our ally and not theres.
[/quote]

With reference to my reply to Canik, I completely understand.

I really was just curious and I also thought this would be helpful to get this into the public view here, especially since it shows that you are a very loyal and [b]rational[/b] alliance. Some here would have us believe you are just a loose cannon alliance getting some punishment. Now we see this is not true, not true at all.

[SirWilliam]

The notion that GOONs conspired to get to Kaskus via Mongols is a hilarious one, because it's completely off the mark. I'm not dishing on them or anything here, they just weren't on our radar like that.

[mmansfield68]

Sexy post Kaskus & Mongols! Nice stand, and don't think you stand alone.

You're too sexy to stand alone, beh-beh.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Canik' timestamp='1332732450' post='2943170']
MONGOLS should not have pushed the issue with their apparent political isolation. GOONS piss off people on a daily basis. If you want GOONS destroyed all you have to do is wait.
[/quote]
Coming up to our third year here, haven't been destroyed yet. Maybe we'll get a nice war to celebrate our anniversary too? Here's to hoping

[Canik]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1332733550' post='2943179']
Coming up to our third year here, haven't been destroyed yet. Maybe we'll get a nice war to celebrate our anniversary too? Here's to hoping
[/quote]

Maybe destroyed was too harsh a term. Rolled hard is what I meant essentially, and yeah it will happen. Just because it hasn't happened in the past three years means absolutely nothing.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='Canik' timestamp='1332736028' post='2943201']
Maybe destroyed was too harsh a term. Rolled hard is what I meant essentially, and yeah it will happen. Just because it hasn't happened in the past three years means absolutely nothing.
[/quote]
You sound very confident, I must admit. Going back to your previous post, how long will we be waiting for this hard rolling?

[dunhill2071]

We we're aiming for kaskus???
TBH GOONS didn't care who we had to fight to keep up with our consistency.

SO many of you blow hards talk of honor this and righteous that... the truth is your tunes change faster Legion jumps into PM.

War is here, have fun...

PS Caparo, please get more $ in your WC

[Canik]

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' timestamp='1332736322' post='2943205']
You sound very confident, I must admit. Going back to your previous post, how long will we be waiting for this hard rolling?
[/quote]

Probably about 2 years. Give or take a year. Putting an exact date on these things are next to impossible.

How long do [i]you[/i] think GOONS can keep doing what you do without consequence? I would be surprised if many GOONS didn't agree with my prediction.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1332726217' post='2943130']
What happens if you tech raided a nation who was friends with the Emperor of the NPO (Hypothetically speaking). The Emperor, who sees this person every day, sends a couple thousand troops and a few million dongs to help his buddy.

What now? Do you declare war on NPO and trigger a great power conflict right out the blue? With no consultation with your allies?
[/quote]
You speak about this hypothetical situation as if this is how it happened with MONGOLS. First of all, this friend was on either none or a 1-man AA (I forget which) with no indication that he was friends with anyone, much less MONGOLS. If this guy was a friend of theirs, they should've gone to any amount of effort to let it be known. Secondly, we didn't just go declare on MONGOLS. First we spoke to their gov. They backed the action and did not A) cast the person out as a rogue, or B) intend to do anything about it. As they have shown they're just reckless and would rather destroy all 40 of their nations than admit any wrongdoing. It doesn't matter if the rep amount is 1m or 18m (let's be honest, 18m is piddly pocket change which a single nation can complete in 10 days flat).

So yes, we would declare on NPO given the following facts: 1) They sent aid to a nation we're at war with, especially if they sent soldiers and labeled it "war aid," 2) Their gov said their doing so is totally fine and sanctioned by their government, and 3) They flipped us the double deuce when we asked for compensation for aiding nations we're at war with.

But you can fill in the word "NPO" and make it a blank space and it would apply to any alliance who does that to us. And to be honest, it kind of surprises me that people in this thread are saying they'd let people get away with it. Though I have low expectations of our detractors in the first place, so it doesn't really surprise me [i][b]that[/b][/i] much.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L5.jpg[/img]

[Raider]

[quote name='Canik' timestamp='1332737842' post='2943214']
Probably about 2 years. Give or take a year. Putting an exact date on these things are next to impossible.

How long do [i]you[/i] think GOONS can keep doing what you do without consequence? I would be surprised if many GOONS didn't agree with my prediction.
[/quote]
I have some doubts that Planet Bob will still be spinning 2 years from now.

[Monster]

[quote name='RePePe' timestamp='1332726393' post='2943133']
I await the day when everyone will realize that the only rules in this world are those things that can be backed by military force. To argue anything to the contrary is to waste energy and deceive the mind.
[/quote]

This guy is right.

[Canik]

[quote name='Raider' timestamp='1332740465' post='2943228']
I have some doubts that Planet Bob will still be spinning 2 years from now.
[/quote]

Nah, Bob has at least another 3-4 years left at minimum. There will be enough time for people to seek retribution. It could be close enough to the end though that the relevance is debated, some of that has already happened actually. People debating the relevance, that is.

Anywho, time will tell.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Canik' timestamp='1332748168' post='2943258']
Nah, Bob has at least another 3-4 years left at minimum. There will be enough time for people to seek retribution. It could be close enough to the end though that the relevance is debated, some of that has already happened actually. People debating the relevance, that is.

Anywho, time will tell.
[/quote]
What kind of retribution are we talking? Do you mean Roguefest 2012, or Coalition vs GOONs 2? Because I'll take either. We could use a few billion more in reps.
[img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerishehL1.jpg[/img]

Edited March 26, 2012 by Beefspari

[Timberland]

[quote name='Canik' timestamp='1332736028' post='2943201']
Maybe destroyed was too harsh a term. Rolled hard is what I meant essentially, and yeah it will happen. Just because it hasn't happened in the past three years means absolutely nothing.
[/quote]

a year or 2 ago, the 10+ alliances that dog piled GOONS thought they were rolling us also. yeah that went well for them

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1332766784' post='2943288']
We could use a few billion more in reps.
[/quote]

I completely agree

Edited March 26, 2012 by Timberland

[the rebel]

[quote name='Timberland' timestamp='1332766793' post='2943289']
a year or 2 ago, the 10+ alliances that dog piled GOONS thought they were rolling us also. yeah that went well for them [/quote]

Considering the reps paid were nowhere near the amount of money Umbrella and Co was sending since day 1 of the around 4 month campaign to keep the life support turned on. So one view point could be considered as going well

[Timberland]

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1332769327' post='2943294']
Considering the reps paid were nowhere near the amount of money Umbrella and Co was sending since day 1 of the around 4 month campaign to keep the life support turned on. So one view point could be considered as going well
[/quote]


So in your eyes allies are not suppose to help each other ? I only got one question for ya, Did GOONS lose despite being dog piled ?

The financial support was and is appreciated. During peace time they receive free tech from myself

Edited March 26, 2012 by Timberland

[the rebel]

[quote name='Timberland' timestamp='1332770358' post='2943299']
So in your eyes allies are not suppose to help each other ? I only got one question for ya, Did GOONS lose despite being dog piled ?[/quote]

Didn't imply that, in my eyes you wouldn't of lasted a week without that major lifeline which kept you from losing, but you didn't really win either because it was a stalemate overall between the original 4 parties.

[Monster]

Not really a stalemate. There was a clear loser who had to agree to terms that weren't very favorable. MK's deletions don't have much to do with the war, since the people who deleted lost interest before.

The reparations usually will never be more than the damages, or even match them in any war.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Roquentin

[Timberland]

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1332772184' post='2943313']
Didn't imply that, in my eyes you wouldn't of lasted a week without that major lifeline which kept you from losing, but you didn't really win either because it was a stalemate overall between the original 4 parties.
[/quote]


A stalemate ? The only stalemate in that war was the alliances that declared on GOONS, their upper tier hid in peace mode from the other side MK,Umbrella,TOP and the other heavy hitters while GOONS dominated the lower tier. There wasn't deadlock in that war at all, alliances surrendered because they could not or would not fight any more. Again we had allies that aided us all throughout the war because GOONS is a lower tier alliance, if you want to fight an upper tier i'm sure you could attack MK, they'll bring in TOP and Umbrella. Go ahead tough guy.

edit: looking at your alliance you have a lower tier alliance also so before you criticize us for not having an upper tier and being able to fight for 4 months without aid. Why don't you look at your alliance first. You have 87 nations from 10k ns and below.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Timberland

[ktarthan]

I think it's funny for people to think that "GOONS getting rolled" is somehow a meaningful thing. They get "rolled" by many definitions every time they fight in a major war. If you want to make a vague threat at GOONS, you have to step up your game.