The dawn of the Iron Age

[Monster]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1326050347' post='2895811']
With all due respect I don't think you are the one who can say that. You have never been in Umbrella when Roq was in (or maybe just a small time) and esp not when Archon was still actively leading MK.

I have always wondered why Roq got all those praises, but I guess the majority came from non-allies. Those that haven't worked with Roq closely. Sure he did a lot for Umbrella and I'm sure most Umbrellians still thank him for that, but to paint him as God's greatest gift is just inane. Roq sure as hell isn't better than Archon or any of PB's current [b]or[/b] former leaders.
[/quote]

It seems that VE disagrees with you. So does the current leadership of FOK. GOONS as well. Janax didn't seem to hate me(Argent). ODN. Alpha Omega. Sparta. A diverse group of allies. Can I go down the list of my former allies? So hey arexes, you're full of crap. I've noticed the only two alliances seem to have real issues are yours and MK. What are common traits to those alliances?

It seems arexes vision isn't very accurate and you sure as hell aren't any better than I am or ever was. Like I said before you get really pissy when things you don't go your way. And hey, at least I was better than all of you in not ignoring people.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Roquentin

[Banksy]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1326050347' post='2895811']
With all due respect I don't think you are the one who can say that. You have never been in Umbrella when Roq was in (or maybe just a small time) and esp not when Archon was still actively leading MK.

I have always wondered why Roq got all those praises, but I guess the majority came from non-allies. Those that haven't worked with Roq closely. Sure he did a lot for Umbrella and I'm sure most Umbrellians still thank him for that, but to paint him as God's greatest gift is just inane. Roq sure as hell isn't better than Archon or any of PB's current [b]or[/b] former leaders.
[/quote]
I still like Roq and respect him for his commitment he showed, but no alliance leader ever lives up to their reputation, and he doesn't.

It's a shame Roq's chosen to go out the way he has.

[New Frontier]

uh guys what about a deinos age could it be that age maybe

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1326050062' post='2895808']
Actually he probably feels more slighted about the fact that you [i]did[/i] actually try to sell him out to us and blame things on him which weren't his fault when he wasn't even around to defend himself.

I get that Roq could probably do with calming down and really isn't doing himself any favours but these blatant attempts at character assasination are pretty shameful.
[/quote]I don't even know what the first part is about. As to the second, I don't think Roquentin needs any help assassinating his own character.

[AAAAAAAAAAGGGG]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1326050347' post='2895811']
With all due respect I don't think you are the one who can say that. You have never been in Umbrella when Roq was in (or maybe just a small time) and esp not when Archon was still actively leading MK.

I have always wondered why Roq got all those praises, but I guess the majority came from non-allies. Those that haven't worked with Roq closely. Sure he did a lot for Umbrella and I'm sure most Umbrellians still thank him for that, but to paint him as God's greatest gift is just inane. Roq sure as hell isn't better than Archon or any of PB's current [b]or[/b] former leaders.
[/quote]

To be fair, Archon never kept his alliance consistently about 90% slot efficiency like Roq did, heh. Umbrella's tech numbers are in a huge part due to Roq's countless efforts in the tech field.

[MagicalTrevor]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1326050062' post='2895808']
Actually he probably feels more slighted about the fact that you [i]did[/i] actually try to sell him out to us and blame things on him which weren't his fault when he wasn't even around to defend himself.

I get that Roq could probably do with calming down and really isn't doing himself any favours but these blatant attempts at character assasination are pretty shameful.
[/quote]
I've missed the past few months but from what i've read so far this seems pretty accurate.

Also Roq was a great leader for Umbrella, Archon is just "the best" and has such a aura around his name now i doubt anybody will get close.

[Monster]

[quote name='Rocky Horror' timestamp='1326054155' post='2895831']
I don't even know what the first part is about. As to the second, I don't think Roquentin needs any help assassinating his own character.
[/quote]

You're really playing with fire here if you are who I think.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Roquentin

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326054731' post='2895842']
You're really playing with fire here if you are who I think.
[/quote]You really need to mellow out.

[Sardonic]

In fairness, Roquentin was a capable leader who got stuff done. The DH preempt of NPO was poetry in motion. However, that just makes his current state all the more painful to watch.

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1326053465' post='2895825']
Sure, but you're making yourselves look ridiculous in your self-victimization effort and by trying to make him look like a lunatic.

I was in Umbrella for 6 months while Roq was ahead of it and I am fairly sure that, while I don't have a full picture (or even a decent half) on how Archon led MK, no other leader directed an alliance as Roq did, specially at internal level. You may want to dispute that, and you're well within your right, but you will just be wrong.
[/quote]

Ok fair enough. I didn't say Roq was a bad leader, but some people think too highly of him in my honest opinion.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326053674' post='2895828']
It seems that VE disagrees with you. So does the current leadership of FOK. GOONS as well. Janax didn't seem to hate me(Argent). ODN. Alpha Omega. Sparta. A diverse group of allies. Can I go down the list of my former allies? So hey arexes, you're full of crap. I've noticed the only two alliances seem to have real issues are yours and MK. What are common traits to those alliances?[/quote]
I think it's mostly Impero that is on the same page as you, FOK's current leadership knows !@#$ all about working with you and GOONs, well they are GOONs. Can't say much about those other alliances.

I've been through many allied leadership but tbh I haven't seen anyone more neurotic, frantic and frightened as yourself. Being careful is a good trait but you are taking it into the extreme and considering the world we live in it is quite retarded.

[quote]
It seems arexes vision isn't very accurate and you sure as hell aren't any better than I am or ever was. Like I said before you get really pissy when things you don't go your way. And hey, at least I was better than all of you in not ignoring people.[/quote]

I never said I was better than you, I do get pissed when things don't go my way. But so far I have always got my way. You never ignored PC and iFOK? Give me a break. The only reason we ignored you was because of your 90 pages pm's you were shooting us up with almost daily in which you were trying to wash your hands of all the !@#$ you pulled on us. You exactly know what you did slighted us so don't play dumb on me Roq.

Again, I'm not saying you were a bad leader, but you aren't as good as other people think you are/were. Now go back trying to coup Umb's leadership and leave us alone.

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1326050062' post='2895808']
Actually he probably feels more slighted about the fact that you [i]did[/i] actually try to sell him out to us and blame things on him which weren't his fault when he wasn't even around to defend himself.

I get that Roq could probably do with calming down and really isn't doing himself any favours but these blatant attempts at character assasination are pretty shameful.
[/quote]

He has seemed pretty spot on.

Then there's people who will attempt to claim activity is a result of OOC illness in order to save their own skin.

There are lower places people can go.

I find it hilarious that those whom would sing him praises now tear him down because it's politically convenient.
It's at least somewhat ...and I say loosely, somewhat heartening to see some people finally grow half a spine.
Your allies, then the former blood that made all what remains of the good in your alliance....I get that certain alliances have been accused of being subservient through incompetence, but... having it right in front of your eyes.... wow.



Oh, and there's no question that Roquentin had no parallel when leading Umbrella.

Edited January 8, 2012 by IYIyTh

[Monster]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1326056760' post='2895852']
Ok fair enough. I didn't say Roq was a bad leader, but some people think too highly of him in my honest opinion.


I think it's mostly Impero that is on the same page as you, FOK's current leadership knows !@#$ all about working with you and GOONs, well they are GOONs. Can't say much about those other alliances.[/quote]

Um, I have worked with FOK's current leadership before and have known Tromp for years.
[quote]
I've been through many allied leadership but tbh I haven't seen anyone more neurotic, frantic and frightened as yourself. Being careful is a good trait but you are taking it into the extreme and considering the world we live in it is quite retarded.[/quote]

Honestly, I haven't dealt with anyone so pushy and demanding. edit: Meh, the frightened part had less to do with me on an individual level. I've taken a lot of big risks in CN in actuality.



[quote]I never said I was better than you, I do get pissed when things don't go my way. But so far I have always got my way. You never ignored PC and iFOK? Give me a break. The only reason we ignored you was because of your 90 pages pm's you were shooting us up with almost daily in which you were trying to wash your hands of all the !@#$ you pulled on us. You exactly know what you did slighted us so don't play dumb on me Roq. [/quote]

It's not as if the slighting wasn't reciprocral. I did try to explain my side of things better. I never knew 5-7 paragraphs constituted 90 pages. Sorry.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Roquentin

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326057071' post='2895860']
Um, I have worked with FOK's current leadership before and have known Tromp for years.
[/quote]
Do you want a medal? Tromp is 1/5 of FOK and hasn't even been in gov for the entirety of PB's existence.

[quote]
Honestly, I haven't dealt with anyone so pushy and demanding.[/quote]
Sounds like those are two traits of a marvelous leader.

[quote]
It's not as if the slighting wasn't reciprocral. I never knew 5-7 paragraphs constituted 90 pages. Sorry.[/quote]

It wasn't. We never stabbed Umbrella in the back. Which sane person spams another alliances' leadership with 5-7 paragraphs of drivel and spin? [size="1"](answer: there are none)[/size]

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1326054317' post='2895836']
To be fair, Archon never kept his alliance consistently about 90% slot efficiency like Roq did, heh. Umbrella's tech numbers are in a huge part due to Roq's countless efforts in the tech field.
[/quote]

I'm really not sure if that is something to be proud of or embarrassed of though.

There's a reason no other alliance can bother mimicking such efficiency. It's tedious and time consuming and for what result?

[Monster]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1326057514' post='2895863']
It wasn't. We never stabbed Umbrella in the back. Which sane person spams another alliances' leadership with 5-7 paragraphs of drivel and spin? [size="1"](answer: there are none)[/size]
[/quote]

If it was drivel, you could have easily disputed it. Backstabbing is your interpretation. Spin is not a foreign concept to you, arexes.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Roquentin

[MagicalTrevor]

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1326057564' post='2895864']
I'm really not sure if that is something to be proud of or embarrassed of though.

There's a reason no other alliance can bother mimicking such efficiency. It's tedious and time consuming and for what result?
[/quote]
Umbrella are pretty much untouchable unless they're put into a hole with very very few friends. You can argue a lot of their political capital is built from their stats aswell.

I'd say that's a pretty good result.

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326057632' post='2895865']
If it was drivel, you could have easily disputed it. Backstabbing is your interpretation.
[/quote]
I don't really want to spend my time arguing with you. Especially not when you write entire essays on the things that might have went differently when you would have done something differently. And yeah backstabbing is my and most likely most of PB's interpretation. It was and is largely shared in iFOK/PC, now NG.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1326053943' post='2895829']
I still like Roq and respect him for his commitment he showed, but no alliance leader ever lives up to their reputation, and he doesn't.

It's a shame Roq's chosen to go out the way he has.
[/quote]

Banksy's posts always make sense. Good post.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Omniscient1

[Diogenes]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1326055417' post='2895846']
In fairness, Roquentin was a capable leader who got stuff done. The DH preempt of NPO was poetry in motion. However, that just makes his current state all the more painful to watch.
[/quote]

I echo these sentiments. I've always liked Roquentin, and admire many of the things he's done -- however, he desperately needs to take a step back from politics and cool his head.

[Freddy]

[quote name='New Frontier' timestamp='1326053999' post='2895830']
uh guys what about a deinos age could it be that age maybe
[/quote]

After such a successful year...keep it up, and definitely.

[IYIyTh]

If conversation has been anything like it has been here, I don't think he's the one whose head needs to cool.

Edited January 8, 2012 by IYIyTh

[Zoomzoomzoom]

[quote name='MagicalTrevor' timestamp='1326057775' post='2895866']
Umbrella are pretty much untouchable unless they're put into a hole with very very few friends. You can argue a lot of their political capital is built from their stats aswell.

I'd say that's a pretty good result.
[/quote]

I was talking more about the IC gains against the OOC losses.

[Monster]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1326057775' post='2895867']
I don't really want to spend my time arguing with you. Especially not when you write entire essays on the things that might have went differently when you would have done something differently. And yeah backstabbing is my and most likely most of PB's interpretation. It was and is largely shared in iFOK/PC, now NG.
[/quote]

That's only one alliance or two. I don't think GOONS, VE, current FOK, or Umbrella agree with you.

Here goes though: I always saw the NEW attacks on DF as retaliatory for DF in Karma. I was tacitly responsible for knowing and not trying to stop it or anything because it was in the best interests of the coalition. I could not support actions in defense of retaliation against that. Given NEW had suspended MADPs because a war was based on raiding(http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=79126), I saw it as justifiable for PC and iFOK to do likewise given the parallels.

Originally, a large coalition was going to attack NEW and then a deal was brokered for it to be limited to DF's treaty partners at the time of their disbandment. Afterwards a large grouping of nations moved onto the NEW AA and caused a massive !@#$storm. I didn't really see it as fair to Fark/TPE/Int given they had been willing to take a bigger hit, so I was pretty upset over it. They were upset as well. So given I saw the likelihood of Fark calling allies into deal with the upper tier nations, we tried to broker a deal which would limit the impact of doing so since PC was insistent on attacking if there was retaliation against those nations. The deal was MHA hitting the iNEW and absorbing the PC counter. Eventually, Fark was more generous than expected and gave an easy peace to help iFOK/FOK out.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Roquentin

[IYIyTh]

Yeah, GOONS handed y'all on a silver platter to FARK over that.

Looking back, I'm sure they (Fark) regret not doing more.

If you think any of that was "all Roquentin," you're high.

Edited January 8, 2012 by IYIyTh

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326060985' post='2895889']
That's only one alliance or two. I don't think GOONS, VE, current FOK, or Umbrella agree with you.

Here goes though: I always saw the NEW attacks on DF as retaliatory for DF in Karma. I was tacitly responsible for knowing and not trying to stop it or anything because it was in the best interests of the coalition. I could not support actions in defense of retaliation against that. Given NEW had suspended MADPs because a war was based on raiding, I saw it as justifiable for PC and iFOK to do likewise given the parallels. Originally, a large coalition was going to attack NEW and then a deal was brokered for it to be limited to DF's treaty partners at the time of their disbandment. Afterwards a large grouping of nations moved onto the NEW AA and caused a massive !@#$storm. I didn't really see it as fair to Fark/TPE/Int given they had been willing to take a bigger hit, so I was pretty upset over it. They were upset as well. So given I saw the likelihood of Fark calling allies into deal with the upper tier nations, we tried to broker a deal which would limit the impact of doing so since PC was insistent on attacking if there was retaliation against those nations. The deal was MHA hitting the iNEW and absorbing the PC counter. Eventually, Fark was more generous than expected and gave an easy peace to help iFOK/FOK out.
[/quote]

It's still sad to see you think like that, I would imagined a little bit time of would set you straight.

1) The problems we have with you and Then-Umbrella was never about military support
2) Umbrella already told those hitting OUR allies that you wouldn't intervene if they attacked which made them actually attack. I'm sure not saying anything would have deterred it.
3) Umbrella already sat out before a shot was fired.
4) You never brokered a deal, that was all on Mike who spent literally nights on end solving this.
5) MHA never attacked anyone on the NEW AA IIRC.
6) FARK was never generous. We never asked them to be easy on those few that joined NEW, they released them without much hassle because they would take a too big hit. It's obvious now why.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1326061284' post='2895892']
Yeah, GOONS handed y'all on a silver platter to FARK over that.

Looking back, I'm sure they regret not doing more.

If you think any of that was "all Roquentin," you're high.
[/quote]

Oh we know. But GOONS never actually went behind our backs to cause us trouble. Umbrella did.

Edited January 8, 2012 by kriekfreak