The dawn of the Iron Age

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1326090232' post='2896187']
Excuse me, but what the heck are you talking about?
[/quote]

If you re-read the section where the post you've quoted is contained it's right about when Arexes gets pissy at Roquentin for what he perceives to be a past slight or in his own words "backstabbing,"... in the NEW - PC affair/debacle.

My comment refers to the fact that GOONS gave their blessing for Fark to pull a maneuver on PC in the NEW war that would make what Arexes refers to as backstabbing look tame, the war being discussed in that context and how I thought it was weird how Roquentin is the unholiest of unholies somehow and that all of a sudden Roquentin's mere presence brought the most ridiculous of slandering on and off of the subject I felt it necessary to point out a distinct discrepancy in blame-sharing going on. Of course, that's not what the argument was about, it was about accusing Roquentin of not agreeing with some individuals over various things with the veil of "You write long (I can't read,) and I'm going to not so subtely poke at you in a derogatory/OOC manner as well but it's okay because if I get enough people to shout something it becomes true. You were a great leader [i]but [/i]X and now that you've gone your opinion is irrelevant and/or I don't like your opinion now so you are terrible and should feel bad."

Unless you're contesting this point, but I don't think you can do that with a straight face. Well, actually, from what I've seen from many here with disclosing personal messages, lying about the reason for doing so and the general display from many it might actually fit in perfectly.

That is what the "heck," I was talking about.


Also, Roq, it really depends on the alliance. More often than not the largest of large it's a wonder (even after the new implementation,) that full internal trade circles are implemented. It's harder to maintain when you have to keep tabs on when each person is going to be available when they may or may not be active every day, often screwing up aid patterns and generally disappearing at stretches...

There were times in MHA where it got to the point of not having enough buyers that I would routinely point my best/reliable tech sellers to new buyers and test out new ones just because of the incessant !@#$%*ing some of the upper tier did about failed tech deals. It got to the point where we had to baby sit some of them because they were utterly incompetent of doing anything buy buying infra and bragging about their inflated NS and were so reluctant to buy tech (despite some 1:10 ratios, christ,) that I had to find sellers routinely out of the alliance due to a lack of reliable internal dealers. (Yes, there should be a ridiculous surplus of Tech, but check when tech gets moved, it's a problem in larger alliances I think we annually underperformed by about 20% of Umbrella's tech movement while having approximately 400 (270ish,) more members.)

Edited January 9, 2012 by IYIyTh

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='Ironfist' timestamp='1326094561' post='2896211']
Did you [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nausea_%28novel%29"]do this[/url] on purpose? I clapped a little.
[/quote]I was going to write it in French, initially.


[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326095230' post='2896214']
I'm happy with it because most people assume my name is pronounced in a lame Bob English-based way, when French is one of the premier languages in Nausea. Though the post is off-base.
[/quote]I pronounce it Rocketman.

[Shan Revan]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326076253' post='2896083']
On topic, during the Bastion(Later named & when we jettisoned the name via the RIA-Rok-VE mini-bloc), discussions I asked if either FOK or R&R could give a reading on what IRON's intentions were. What I was told was that they hadn't really interacted since DarkMistress's departure. I believe the R&R relationship was reinvigorated after R&R canceled on ODN over the Prox/Arsenal C&G vs LEO 2.0 stuff and the VoNC talk on GFL.
[/quote]
R&R has always been an awkward on/off relationship that relied on various personalities. I think that's probably right for them at that time. As for FOK, we had been dealing with them quite a bit, especially with orange related stuff, opening up the senate and things to them and I vaguely recall discussions as to the viability of a top-fok-iron based bloc for the purposes of doing some interesting things (I'm not sure if we had talked to fok about it yet nor not). Of course that all died off pretty quickly once Karma came around and we have fairly limited contact since as far as I know.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1326051750' post='2895816']
Interesting to see the contrast of statements from certain parties between Roq's departure thread and nowadays when he is a little more open about his political opinion.
[/quote]
[i]Freedom's just another word for nothin' left ta lose, nothin' and that's all that Archon left me[/i]
New chart-topper.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Schattenmann

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326097556' post='2896221']
I've always wondered how mass alliance economics like in IRON work, actually. It was only really taxing for me to manage it when I had coordinate a good chunk of the aid for GOONS, because there was no real break because it'd have to be re-upped every time the slots expired. It was burning me out.

Also honestly, when I got there Umbrella had severe activity issues(at least as far as elite alliances go) and didn't have too much of a direction following the WoTC. Maybe 10 founding members deleted in September of that year. They had gotten their long waited revenge on the New Polar Order.

edit: Not doing anything was going to kill the alliance and in the midst of the aftermath of WoTC, I kept throwing around the idea since NPO had soundly overreached its mandate during that war, "if NpO could be isolated and rolled, why can't the same happen to NPO?"

Consistent tech dealing was limited to the most proactive members, which resulted in a tech deficit in Umbrella's first real test as a fighting alliance against Valhalla.

So if not god's greatest gift, I can at least be the Bobian equivalent of OOC: Evita.[/quote]

They don't respect the intellectuals around here, let alone such cults of personality (Jackie Kennedy before Jackie Kennedy was cool). Suffice to say I personally hold your abilities in high regard and would have loved to have seen you apply at Valhalla. Good luck, though forgive me if I'm not cheering your arrival at FOK. Not a horrible alliance by any stretch, just would rather see you elsewhere.

[Monster]

[quote name='Shan Revan' timestamp='1326122822' post='2896298']
R&R has always been an awkward on/off relationship that relied on various personalities. I think that's probably right for them at that time. As for FOK, we had been dealing with them quite a bit, especially with orange related stuff, opening up the senate and things to them and I vaguely recall discussions as to the viability of a top-fok-iron based bloc for the purposes of doing some interesting things (I'm not sure if we had talked to fok about it yet nor not). Of course that all died off pretty quickly once Karma came around and we have fairly limited contact since as far as I know.
[/quote]

The treaty remained for a while after that, though.


[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1326126994' post='2896329']
They don't respect the intellectuals around here, let alone such cults of personality (Jackie Kennedy before Jackie Kennedy was cool). Suffice to say I personally hold your abilities in high regard and would have loved to have seen you apply at Valhalla. Good luck, though forgive me if I'm not cheering your arrival at FOK. Not a horrible alliance by any stretch, just would rather see you elsewhere.
[/quote]

I'm not really "in" FOK so to speak. Don't have anything lined up atm.

[Yggdrazil]

MK's influence derives from their relatioship with Umbrella. Umbrella's elitism is essentially Roquentin built. MK's genius was using the influence,Roquentin's genius was seeing they had power to project.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' timestamp='1326227132' post='2896990']
MK's influence derives from their relatioship with Umbrella.
[/quote]

That is an immensely untrue statement. I sincerely doubt that even Umbrellans would agree with it.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Crymson

[Zoomzoomzoom]

Crymson will show you why it's the IRON age

[Monster]

On its own, it's not entirely accurate, but I would say it is a big factor, but MK has connections which span several structures.

[janax]

[quote name='New Frontier' timestamp='1326070155' post='2896017']
NEWSFLASH: Roq was overrated.

Subheading: So was every other successful alliance leader since Ivan.

More at eleven.
[/quote]

I am underrated. It's underrated how underrated I am. I am [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLV9LstbmAo"]outstanding.[/url]

[Ardus]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' timestamp='1326227132' post='2896990']
MK's influence derives from their relatioship with Umbrella. Umbrella's elitism is essentially Roquentin built. MK's genius was using the influence,Roquentin's genius was seeing they had power to project.
[/quote]
MK's influence derives from the fact that when we're not busy here trumpeting our superiority, we engage people openly. We make clear where we stand, what we see, and where we want to go. People return the favor. When they do, it becomes easy to see where lines are, how to bring people together, and how to carry those who have always stood with us onward to victory over the free-riders, the fools, and the corrupt.

Umbrella is one of our closest allies. They were under Roquentin, they are under Johnny, and they will be under whomever succeeds him. So it goes without saying that they're a big part of our success. It is by the strength of our commitment to our allies, and theirs in return, that each of us prevail. MK is strong thanks in part to Umbrella. Umbrella is strong thanks in part to MK. That is the way of allies.

[Yggdrazil]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1326242399' post='2897108']
That is an immensely untrue statement. I sincerely doubt that even Umbrellans would agree with it.
[/quote]

Of course they wouldn't!
Without Umbrella the Mushroom Kingdom would not had the core requirement for it to develope.Now that the influence is established, Umbrella is not as significant to MK's infuence as it once was.

[Denial]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' timestamp='1326250454' post='2897166']
Of course they wouldn't!
Without Umbrella the Mushroom Kingdom would not had the core requirement for it to develope.Now that the influence is established, Umbrella is not as significant to MK's infuence as it once was.
[/quote]
what on earth

[Crymson]

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1326242814' post='2897110']
Crymson will show you why it's the IRON age
[/quote]

Crymson does not believe that it's the IRON age any more than the last ~two years were the MHA age.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1326250264' post='2897165']
Umbrella is one of our closest allies. They were under Roquentin, they are under Johnny, and they will be under whomever succeeds him. So it goes without saying that they're a big part of our success. It is by the strength of our commitment to our allies, and theirs in return, that each of us prevail. MK is strong thanks in part to Umbrella. Umbrella is strong thanks in part to MK. That is the way of allies.
[/quote]

I personally think MK and Umbrella wouldn't be !@#$ without ODN. We're the true puppet masters, no one would have influence without us.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' timestamp='1326250454' post='2897166']
Of course they wouldn't!
Without Umbrella the Mushroom Kingdom would not had the core requirement for it to develope.Now that the influence is established, Umbrella is not as significant to MK's infuence as it once was.
[/quote]
Where do you get this stuff?

[Crymson]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326242972' post='2897112']
On its own, it's not entirely accurate, but I would say it is a big factor, but MK has connections which span several structures.
[/quote]

Though I'd really like to avoid engaging you in any way that will make you focus on Cybernations, I feel it necessary to argue that MK was significant for a long period in which Umbrella was not. Umbrella's influence did not, by any means, build MK's influence. It could be argued, though perhaps not fully, that MK's influence played a large part in building that of Umbrella.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1326251273' post='2897173']
Though I'd really like to avoid engaging you in any way that will make you focus on Cybernations, I feel it necessary to argue that MK was significant for a long period in which Umbrella was not. Umbrella's influence did not, by any means, build MK's influence. It could be argued, though perhaps not fully, that MK's influence played a large part in building that of Umbrella.
[/quote]
Just the same, Umbrella has been an invaluable friend for as long as I can remember. They've made tough choices to stand alongside us. They financed the war against NPO. We engage with one another extensively from the highest office to the worst posting knight.

I'm unsettled by Roquentin's recent decisions and Yggdrazil is misguided, but I'm of no mood to minimize Umbrella's role in MK and the world.

[Yggdrazil]

[quote name='Denial' timestamp='1326250924' post='2897169']
what on earth
[/quote]

If your a critic of the Mushroom Kingdom, in ways they disagree, expect mud throwing; something always sticks.It's the MK way.
By the way, an excellent tactic to ensure your message carries more weight (attack the speaker not the message, the plebs thinks its cool)
This does not apply to the ones teling me I am wrong and giving reasons.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Yggdrazil

[Monster]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1326251273' post='2897173']
Though I'd really like to avoid engaging you in any way that will make you focus on Cybernations, I feel it necessary to argue that MK was significant for a long period in which Umbrella was not. Umbrella's influence did not, by any means, build MK's influence. It could be argued, though perhaps not fully, that MK's influence played a large part in building that of Umbrella.
[/quote]

Considering we kind of handed a coalition we spent months building in conjunction with other parties to MK on a silver platter, I don't really agree. Was it unruly yes? There was still a lot of work put into it, though.

Our original line up was the original Bastion: MHA/Sparta/Gre/Umb/TOP, but then we met other people lol

Edited January 11, 2012 by Roquentin

[Crymson]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' timestamp='1326252490' post='2897193']
If your a critic of the Mushroom Kingdom, in ways they disagree, expect mud throwing; something always sticks.It's the MK way.
By the way, an excellent tactic to ensure your message carries more weight (attack the speaker not the message, the plebs thinks its cool)
This does not apply to the ones teling me I am wrong and giving reasons.
[/quote]

I'm not in the Mushroom Kingdom. I'm a member of an alliance which holds an MDP with yours that is the oldest in the game. I'm telling you quite pointedly that you're incorrect.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326252822' post='2897195']
Considering we kind of handed a coalition we spent months building in conjunction with other parties to MK on a silver platter, I don't really agree. Was it unruly yes? There was still a lot of work put into it, though.

Our original line up was the original Bastion: MHA/Sparta/Gre/Umb/TOP, but then we met other people lol
[/quote]
You say that as though MK was the only one of your allies who wanted Dos Equis smashed.

[Monster]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1326253569' post='2897202']
You say that as though MK was the only one of your allies who wanted Dos Equis smashed.
[/quote]

Um, how does that reflect on my post?

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1326253569' post='2897202']
You say that as though MK was the only one of your allies who wanted Dos Equis smashed.
[/quote]

Unless I'm missing an inside joke or something, what does that have to do with Karma?