pd73bassman Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Congrats to UPN for being stupid as always, have fun NG taking care of business as only you know how o/ NG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='The Pansy' timestamp='1317295229' post='2811531'] Considering we are still waiting for the actual losses to get a proper figure for how much damage was done, and its been shown that the 30m was a reasonable estimation [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=105625&view=findpost&p=2811488"]See here[/url], I think that fair accountability might have already been offered, and refused. [/quote] Perhaps if NG waited until all the damages could be accurately calculated and presented to UPN a different resolution may have resulted. As far as I'm aware, no such information has been presented (I don't count theoretical estimates) and yet war is raging. Maybe, has such evidence been presented, UPN would have paid the fair and reasonable reparations and we'd have moved on. As far as I can tell, one side (UPN) estimated 3 million which I think is way too low as I said earlier and the other side put forward an arbitrary amount of 30 million (double the 15 million that would have been seen as adequate had the offender not been a UPN government member). Obviously a large gap between those estimates so I would have thought that common sense dictate that the numbers be crunched and a figure determined which was fair and accurate. Hell, add another few million for the "government member penalty". I don't really see where the rush to do what has been done comes from unless it isn't really about UPN at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1317295547' post='2811535'] I was referring to them defending UPN's actions post raid Tyga. The acting like this is extortion as if there is some high moral ground here is just making it all worse. [/quote] What actions are you referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elorian Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 War is never good. I hope this conflict finds a quick end, whatever it may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawky Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1317293899' post='2811516'] So is the [s]Garbage[/s] Polar sphere going to stand up and defend itself or is it becoming the new ex-Heg and will just roll over every time somebody kicks it? Godspeed Non Grata, do the Lord's work. [/quote] implying that such a sphere/bloc even exist. It does not, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Hawky' timestamp='1317295867' post='2811543'] implying that such a sphere/bloc even exist. It does not, sorry. [/quote] Shhh, it's like telling a child there is no Santa Claus. Edited September 29, 2011 by Tygaland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanilla Napalm Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='fluffyewunga' timestamp='1317294664' post='2811524'] UPN knows about accountability. Fair accountability. Paying opportunists off doesn't make them go away. [/quote] Seriously, this thread is making me head melt. Isn't it the tech raider that is the opportunist? I'm sure i've had the criticism levied at me before. Hopefully this new 'opportunist = raid victim + backers' thing becomes a trend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwuss Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1317295915' post='2811545'] Seriously, this thread is making me head melt. Isn't it the tech raider that is the opportunist? I'm sure i've had the criticism levied at me before. Hopefully this new 'opportunist = raid victim + backers' thing becomes a trend. [/quote] I really hope so, this would be the best trend ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Hawky' timestamp='1317295867' post='2811543'] implying that such a sphere/bloc even exist. It does not, sorry. [/quote] So you're even more useless than I originally thought, thanks for the update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanilla Napalm Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1317296171' post='2811550'] So you're even more useless than I originally thought, thanks for the update. [/quote] To be fair he does have a point; a random cluster of ineffectual monkeys does not a sphere make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1317295908' post='2811544'] Shhh, it's like telling a child there is no Santa Claus. [/quote] You sir, have broken my heart for the last time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Stuart Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 The best thing about this DoW is GATO in a warmongering mood, I love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1317296641' post='2811553'] You sir, have broken my heart for the last time! [/quote] Well, I never said Santa Claus didn't exist...but I am quite the heartbreaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanilla Napalm Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Charles Stuart' timestamp='1317296701' post='2811555'] The best thing about this DoW is GATO in a warmongering mood, I love it! [/quote] Dude, the entire thing is beautiful: the tech raider is the victim, Grub is offering money to avoid war, 30mil is extortion. I'm just waiting for Schatt to come in and espouse PB's rights. After that we can all just delete our nations, because there will be nothing more to experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1317295665' post='2811538'] What actions are you referring to? [/quote] From my comment you quoted, I explained the first line with the second line. However to further explain it: Polar has defended UPN's actions by stating the amount is wrong, they (UPN) are being extorted, explained the UPN MOW didn't have a responsibility to determine the two nations were protected and Polar claimed the world was gunning for them by NG attacking UPN once UPN refused/gave too low of a counter to the terms presented. Below is a collection of posts within this thread. I stopped quoting them on page 6 because frankly I was already tired of reading them again. However the quotes I have below begin to cover the comments I have made above. Had Polaris, instead of towing a political line actually addressed the fault of the ally and attempted calm comments with an effort to find resolution, this never would have turned into a Polar "call out" as some have called it. Again Polar has done that to themselves. [spoiler] [quote name='RandomInterrupt' timestamp='1317268542' post='2810815'] Extortion never goes out of style. [/quote] [quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1317269122' post='2810855'] ....... You mean their refusal to pay 30 million for 3 million worth of damage? [/quote] [quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1317269406' post='2810867'] Violence for the sake of violence is a pointless, counter-productive enterprise in most every way. [/quote] [quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1317269598' post='2810874'] Best defined by your political purposes I suppose. Which would make your point arbitrary, which makes your participation in this discussion, if not unproductive then pointless. Paying off bullies is a temporary fix for people who lack self-respect. They offered to pay 6 million for 3 million worth of damage. That's a reasonable position. Ten times as much is extortion. [/quote] [quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1317269855' post='2810892'] Sure, and if NG had declared right after you might have a point. Thing is they didn't. They tried to use the incident as a means of making UPN kowtow. UPN refused to kowtow but still offered reasonable reparations, which were rejected because it was never about the money. It was about demeaning UPN. [/quote] [quote name='Llanowar Elf' timestamp='1317270038' post='2810906'] He raided a TWO MAN AA, that had absolutely no mention of a protectorate or any other agreement in there Bio's. He did 3 million worth of damage, they offered 6 million in response. So, lets see the figure you used to justify asking for 30mil? [/quote] [quote name='Llanowar Elf' timestamp='1317270761' post='2810958'] It may be on NG's wiki, but where is there own AA's wiki? How is someone supposed to automatically know that there is an agreement out there, when there is no official wiki for the AA in question? Are they supposed to go through every single thread in the OWF? There MoD, checked to see if there was a wiki. There was none. He then checked there bios, nothing. What more does one do? Pm the nation asking if it is ok for them to be tech raided? [/quote] [quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1317270868' post='2810963'] This isn't about NG being omg offended and morally outraged by UPN's actions. This is about NG using UPN's mistake as an opportunity to demean them for the sake of it. UPN refused and attempted to solve the issue via diplomatic means. NG disliked being negotiated with and declared. I have a solid case. [/quote] [quote name='King Penchuk' timestamp='1317270893' post='2810965'] I am becoming tired of the arguments. I would be happier with a simple "we are attacking you to have war with NpO". At least it would be honest. [/quote] [/spoiler] Edited September 29, 2011 by Brehon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1317297048' post='2811559'] From my comment you quoted, I explained the first line with the second line. However to further explain it: Polar has defended UPN's actions by stating the amount is wrong, they (UPN) are being extorted, explained the UPN MOW didn't have a responsibility to determine the two nations were protected and Polar claimed the world was gunning for them by NG attacking UPN once UPN refused/gave too low of a counter to the terms presented. Below is a collection of posts within this thread. I stopped quoting them on page 6 because frankly I was already tired of reading them again. However the quotes I have below begin to cover the comments I have made above. Had Polaris, instead of towing a political line actually addressed the fault of the ally and attempted calm comments with an effort to find resolution, this never would have turned into a Polar "call out" as some have called it. Again Polar has done that to themselves. [/quote] What a load of crap. Polar, to my knowledge, has not defended UPN's actions in raiding the alliance they raided. Not once. And you still haven't linked me to any comment that shows they did. They have stood up for their ally with regards to the reparations that were asked of them. There is a massive difference between sticking up for your ally with regards to the level of punishment meted out for their mistake and condoning the mistake made. The fact that you obfuscate to try and convince people that the two actions above are one and the same is both amusing and saddening. I would have thought NpO trying to calm the waters after the war had been declared would have been an exercise in futility as, as far as I'm aware, no attempt to actually work out fair and reasonable reparations was made prior to the war being declared. From my sources the NpO only discovered there was an issue today so had no time to broker a deal before war was declared. I don't blame them for being annoyed abut how things went down and how they went down so quickly. I know they are annoyed at UPN for giving an excuse for the usual suspects to try and drag Polar in to war again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 Are you dense or just being stupid because you can? I never said Polar supported the raid itself. In fact I stated ACTIONS AFTER THE RAID, as in not paying reparations, as in calling it extortion, as in acting as if UPN is somehow justified in their ignorance. You didn't even read, you just ran your mouth. WTH Tyga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Laslo Kenez' timestamp='1317292929' post='2811504'] Go ahead Polar/Legion, make our day! [/quote] You have to be kidding. The G stands for gutless doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrwuss Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) [quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1317298109' post='2811565'] You have to be kidding. The G stands for gutless doesn't it? [/quote] Want to know what everyone assumes the P stands for in NpO? The door, it swings both ways. Edited September 29, 2011 by mrwuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Nakara Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1317298178' post='2811566'] Want to know what everyone assumes the P stands for in NpO? The door, it swings both ways. [/quote] Nice ninja edit numbskull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1317298103' post='2811563'] Are you dense or just being stupid because you can? I never said Polar supported the raid itself. In fact I stated ACTIONS AFTER THE RAID, as in not paying reparations, as in calling it extortion, as in acting as if UPN is somehow justified in their ignorance. You didn't even read, you just ran your mouth. WTH Tyga. [/quote] I have not defended any aspect of UPN's actions. Personally I think they are indefensible. Whether it is extortion or not is largely irrelevant. I have offered to pay the 30 million but I see no acceptance of that so it is evident that 30 million has nothing to do with the matters at hand. It is simply having the upper hand and choosing to use said advantage without any risk of retribution...at this time. Kind of like your alliance in the old days really... and ours for that matter. Remember that Karma thing, it goes right around apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmightyGrub Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1317298178' post='2811566'] Want to know what everyone assumes the P stands for in NpO? The door, it swings both ways. [/quote] I would love to know the extent of your creativity crayon kiddy. Entertain me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygaland Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 [quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1317298103' post='2811563'] Are you dense or just being stupid because you can? I never said Polar supported the raid itself. In fact I stated ACTIONS AFTER THE RAID, as in not paying reparations, as in calling it extortion, as in acting as if UPN is somehow justified in their ignorance. You didn't even read, you just ran your mouth. WTH Tyga. [/quote] I think it is you that is acting stupid. Not one person from Polar denied UPN owed reps. They merely disputed the amount. Read the quotes you added to your earlier post. Not one of them says UPN owe nothing. I read what you posted, it just doesn't match up with reality, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brokenhead Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) [quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1317298304' post='2811568'] I have not defended any aspect of UPN's actions. Personally I think they are indefensible. Whether it is extortion or not is largely irrelevant. I have offered to pay the 30 million but I see no acceptance of that so it is evident that 30 million has nothing to do with the matters at hand. It is simply having the upper hand and choosing to use said advantage without any risk of retribution...at this time. Kind of like your alliance in the old days really... and ours for that matter. Remember that Karma thing, it goes right around apparently. [/quote] I know I'm just an unknown pleb around here, but the people of my nation are willing to duplicate Grub's offer of 30 million dongs. That makes 60 million dongs to satisfy NG's justifiable outrage at the slaughter and mayhem wreaked on two of their nations. Edit: Two of their eternal protectorate's nations. Edited September 29, 2011 by brokenhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCRABT Posted September 29, 2011 Report Share Posted September 29, 2011 (edited) [quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1317298390' post='2811569'] I would love to know the extent of your creativity crayon kiddy. Entertain me [/quote] Perfidious would seem to fit quite splendidly Edited September 29, 2011 by MCRABT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.