The Overtime Accords

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1304736002' post='2707850']
Please tell me you're smarter than to naively take fun slogans literally while ignoring all the obvious reasons why we wouldn't have done it. None of the reasons I stated didn't apply or weren't obvious then, they didn't require any future knowledge.

Is everyone who declares a individual war with "DIE ___" literally saying they want to see that nation gone? Such rhetoric and sloganeering goes on all the time in wars, in war reasons, on posts, in propaganda. Anyone who takes them literally, especially when it conflicts with common sense, is either incredibly stupid or being deliberately obtuse.

It's fairly obvious that you had those nations in peace in order to keep them from being damaged in the war. I'm not sure why you feel the need to deny that.
[/quote]

Yet Sir Paul's claim to the MK throne was srs bsns, mirite?

[Azaghul]

Some NPO war reasons during this war:

"DIE SCUM!" "Die for the NPO!!!" "Destroy All GOONs" "GOONs. Must. Die." "Goons=Gone" "fungus extermination" "Your. Nation. Must. Die." "Silence, I kill U" "Just makin sure you stay gone" "DIE!!!!!" "Scalp #1" "I want my scalps!" "MK. Must. Die." "Exterminatus"

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1304736767' post='2707861']
Yet Sir Paul's claim to the MK throne was srs bsns, mirite?
[/quote]
It had a serious purpose. Kind of like TWiP.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1304736973' post='2707864']
Some NPO war reasons during this war:

"DIE SCUM!" "Die for the NPO!!!" "Destroy All GOONs" "GOONs. Must. Die." "Goons=Gone" "fungus extermination" "Your. Nation. Must. Die." "Silence, I kill U" "Just makin sure you stay gone" "DIE!!!!!" "Scalp #1" "I want my scalps!" "MK. Must. Die." "Exterminatus"
[/quote]

Gee, they could not possibly be spins on your "Everything. Must. Die." slogan. No, not possible!

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1304737048' post='2707865']
It had a serious purpose. Kind of like TWiP.
[/quote]

Of course it did.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1304737108' post='2707866']
Gee, they could not possibly be spins on your "Everything. Must. Die." slogan. No, not possible!
[/quote]
I see that my point sailed right over your head.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1304737269' post='2707870']
I see that my point sailed right over your head.
[/quote]

No, I caught it, it just wasn't really a valid point.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1304722021' post='2707716']
If they hadn't employed that 'strategy' and fought whole heartedly, I would have supported and pushed for white peace as part of Polar peacing out.


It's too bad that you didn't do that, would have saved both sides from several months of trouble.
[/quote]
Oh lawdy me! Land sakes, if only we had let MK destroy us then, then we would have had the mercy of Azaghul to not destroy us now!

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1304726039' post='2707762']
There are many, many reasons we wouldn't do that. Most of which should be very obvious, [/quote]
Wake up, Azaghul, it's 2011: You're not the good guys or anyone's darlings anymore. Get in line with the rest of MK.

[flak attack]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304741806' post='2707896']
Get in line with the rest of MK.
[/quote]
He is.

[Lord Velox]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304741806' post='2707896']



Wake up, Azaghul, it's 2011: You're not the good guys or anyone's darlings anymore. Get in line with the rest of MK.
[/quote]
You're actually using "GOOD GUYS" in a serious argument?

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1304722021' post='2707716']
It doesn't matter who the opponent is, the "peace mode every upper tier nation we can to avoid fighting" 'strategy' is unacceptable.
[/quote]
In 2007, one could have said here the "first strike nuclear attack every nation we can" 'strategy' was unacceptable, and been greeted with applause.

There are no inherently unacceptable strategies, only strategies prohibited by the ruling hegemon.

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1304727669' post='2707776']
Your history is completely backward here. UOKMB didn't try to come to us to discuss peace. Instead they just left their AA and joined different ones, like UPN, when they got tired of the war. Historically speaking it's not often that a group declares war, fights, and then changes AA and gets off completely free as a result. We pursued them and [b]requested a measly 15m for their release[/b] (significantly less than the damages they caused), which anyone was allowed to pay.
[/quote]
You pursued them and agreed to pay 15M after ODN interceded. Before that, you were not willing to accept reparations for them at all.

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1304736973' post='2707864']
Some NPO war reasons during this war:

"DIE SCUM!" "Die for the NPO!!!" "Destroy All GOONs" "GOONs. Must. Die." "Goons=Gone" "fungus extermination" "Your. Nation. Must. Die." "Silence, I kill U" "Just makin sure you stay gone" "DIE!!!!!" "Scalp #1" "I want my scalps!" "MK. Must. Die." "Exterminatus"
[/quote]
DH's reason for war (or was it their slogan? Whatever):

"Everything must die"

[i]-puts on tin foil hat-[/i]

OMFG! DID DOOMHOUSE REALLY WANTED EVERY SINGLE NATION ON PLANET BOB TO BURN?! OH NOES!



I find it amusing that you took non-official statements, slogans that are a spin-off of yours, very, very seriously. What's next? Beatdowns because an alliance's member won't stop bashing you on the OWF?

Edited May 7, 2011 by HHAYD

[Choson]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1304764376' post='2707979']
You pursued them and agreed to [b]pay[/b] 15M after ODN interceded. Before that, you were not willing to accept reparations for them at all.
[/quote]
You really don't know what you're talking about.

First off, I know we didn't agreed to pay UPN anything for accepting rogue nations, so the part of your statement that I bolded is wrong.

[size="1"]But when [i]aren't[/i] you wrong?[/size]

Secondly, I was the one who negotiated with Peggy Sue and other members of her government where she agreed to reps in exchange for giving the "ex"-UOKMB member peace. It isn't GOONS' fault that she backtracked soon after accepting the terms of the negotiations. No wonder she and Schattenmann are depicted as the "brains" of WCE. Although, if they each had half a brain, together they would still only have half a brain.

ODN interceded only because UPN was quickly making an ass out of itself as an alliance.

[Haflinger]

Ah, yes, the old make fun of the typo technique. I know it well.

As for the rest - Peggy Sue had her faults, but lying to her allies wasn't among them. Often she carried through with being honest when it was definitely not in her best interest, so in other words: I don't believe you, but instead I believe her.

[Choson]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1304774479' post='2707995']
Ah, yes, the old make fun of the typo technique. I know it well.

As for the rest - Peggy Sue had her faults, but lying to her allies wasn't among them. Often she carried through with being honest when it was definitely not in her best interest, so in other words: I don't believe you, but instead I believe her.
[/quote]
That's [b][i]some[/i][/b] typo. How exactly was that a "typo"? There isn't a word in there that can be spelled similarly which would have the same intention as the sentence you spelled out. Your sentence as it stands implies that we had to pay ODN for peace. You'd have to restructure the whole sentence to change it around to show the actual story of events.

Yes, because concocting lies in order to try and wage war with my alliance is a sign of true honesty, right?

[Dagrr]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1304737048' post='2707865']
It had a serious purpose. Kind of like TWiP.
[/quote]

No one will make posts that try to undermine MK's position in a serious manner [i]ever[/i] again. We've all learned our lesson.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Arthur Blair' timestamp='1304395352' post='2704663']
Let me make a futile attempt at dispelling something.

We have never defended, lost and not paid. What makes that so terrible?
[/quote]

The whole "becoming the monster you defeat" thing comes to mind.

Anyway, terms are way too easy on Pacifica and TPF, way too hard on everyone else, but at least they are done.

Time to look to the future.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1304776935' post='2708005']
That's [b][i]some[/i][/b] typo. How exactly was that a "typo"?
[/quote]
I was writing a sentence, decided to rephrase it, and missed one word in my edit.

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1304776935' post='2708005']
Yes, because concocting lies in order to try and wage war with my alliance is a sign of true honesty, right?
[/quote]
Peggy Sue actually did not do that. That's the lie you guys have spread in order to bolster your PR.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1304764376' post='2707979']
Before that, you were not willing to accept reparations for them at all.
[/quote]
Yeah no. You have no idea what you're talking about and you should stop talking about this before you dig yourself even deeper.

[blueski]

Don't discourage him from using his MO, he'll probably just find an even more terrible and less coherent one to use.

[Lord Velox]

Haflinger you should just stop when you're not making sense.
Wait that would disqualify you from posting at all.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Lord Velox

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1304741806' post='2707896']
Wake up, Azaghul, it's 2011: You're not the good guys or anyone's darlings anymore. Get in line with the rest of MK.
[/quote]
What does this have to do with any of my points?

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1304764376' post='2707979']
In 2007, one could have said here the "first strike nuclear attack every nation we can" 'strategy' was unacceptable, and been greeted with applause.

There are no inherently unacceptable strategies, only strategies prohibited by the ruling hegemon.[/quote]
I disagree. (OOC: there are some strategies that are just plain bad for the game, running into peace mode to avoid losing wars is one because if everyone did it we'd almost never have war. EZI, pursuing players from the game, is another)

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1304770489' post='2707984']
DH's reason for war (or was it their slogan? Whatever):

"Everything must die"

[i]-puts on tin foil hat-[/i]

OMFG! DID DOOMHOUSE REALLY WANTED EVERY SINGLE NATION ON PLANET BOB TO BURN?! OH NOES!



I find it amusing that you took non-official statements, slogans that are a spin-off of yours, very, very seriously. What's next? Beatdowns because an alliance's member won't stop bashing you on the OWF?
[/quote]
You missed the entire point, did you read my exchange with Brehon? My point was that slogans in general shouldn't be taken seriously, because Brehon was using the reason that he thought we wanted to permanently attack NPO or make them disband per our slogan. In essence you're agreeing with me.

[Letum]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1304786477' post='2708053']
I disagree. (OOC: there are some strategies that are just plain bad for the game, running into peace mode to avoid losing wars is one because if everyone did it we'd almost never have war. EZI, pursuing players from the game, is another)
[/quote]

If you dislike it that much, then you should try putting your own house in order first. 10% of your alliance hasn't fought at all, 16% has avoided war since February, and 23% since March.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1304786792' post='2708057']
If you dislike it that much, then you should try putting your own house in order first. 10% of your alliance hasn't fought at all, 16% has avoided war since February, and 23% since March.
[/quote]
Less than 10 are in peace long term per orders, the rest are in their of their own initiative.

The other difference is that we never tried to systematically keep whole NS ranges out.

[Letum]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1304787007' post='2708059']
The other difference is that we never tried to systematically keep whole NS ranges out.
[/quote]

Neither did we. Unless of course, you claim that our 130 pre-war upper tier nations were brought down to 40 through mass-deletion rather than fighting.