[Why can't the world revolve around me?]

This used to not be a problem. Well, not to the extent that it is today. That was when the treaty web was not the convoluted mess that is today. Back in the day, there were actually clear sides. It was fun trying to vie for power and dominance. These days its just internal bickering among one big power conglomerate with occasional beat downs on those not cool enough to join that club.

Yea, I wish I would have been around in the Great War era

[Declaration of Victory]

Congrats on your victory against, MrDamsky. The Carlos Accords have made Damsky the first victim of their reign of terror.

[Declaration of War on Mr. Damsky]

I support this.

[dear cn]

The only problem is the people losing this war aren't really having as much fun as the people winning. So they need something to make them feel like they won somewhat. To make this happen, they try to win the battle of words. That's the only reason you have arguing. It'll happen every war where there is a clear loser.

[Two-Faced? Misinterpretation? Liars?]

Actually they did. FEAR attacked ODN. Both were MDoAP partners of UPN.

That was when they decided to sit out of the war.

GATO had the exact same situation in the six million dollar war. At least iFOK aren't hypocrites though. I don't remember them trying to make GATO look cowardly. PC on the other hand......

[The Sacrifice]

Actually, I see this as a positive sign; it indicates that Pandora's Box is not willing to fight for the right to raid at any cost.

Anyone who remembers Poison Clan's past (SBA, California) will know that this is something of a change in their policy.

Actually I remember PC backing down on that Echelon protectorate. They're a fairly sensible alliance.

[Place your bets]

BAWWWW penky is crying to Athens and CSN and RnR to help him. How cute. You disgust me.

GO SMONTAG!

Wait, I'm attacking him too WANA but you didn't include IAA in there.

or was that intentional because we're friends?

[Place your bets]

I'm picking Penkala on this one.

[Athens (and possibly \m/) take actions in support of Heft.]

And then they saw GOD's stats and treaties and declared war on a local nursing home instead.

Well it was more like we convinced Xiph to chill out, but whatever you would like to believe. I don't want to rain on your parade, because you're on a roll. I think you're picking on the wrong people here though. There are a lot worse things out there than Athens.

[Athens (and possibly \m/) take actions in support of Heft.]

I believe that NPO protects Red Nation Union (RNU), you might be confused with them.

That's probably it.

[Athens (and possibly \m/) take actions in support of Heft.]

I just don't get why Athens doesn't grow a manhood and for once pick a fight with an alliance that poses a risk.

"Oooooh, we're so edgy! We're mass raiding Knights of Ni! Eeeeewwwww, check this out, brohams, we're aiding rogues on RED!" Impress Surprise me: pick on IRON.

You do realize that Athens was about to declare war on GOD a few months ago, right?

[Athens (and possibly \m/) take actions in support of Heft.]

I think NPO protects them now.

[Athens (and possibly \m/) take actions in support of Heft.]

I believe the OP is saying that by aiding the rogue, Londo and Skies support what Heft did in aiding TENE's/RoK's rogue.

The OP is of course being sarcastic.

Hypocrites of the highest order. I guess they are trying to pick a fight. Who is RED's protector? Do they have one? Is it NPO?

They were being protected by INT I think. Or am I completely off?

[Highlights from WCE: Director's Cut]

Sardonic, don't you think this is a dead horse?

I was going to say something similar, but honestly I'm so bored here lately that reading his commentary was mildly entertaining. It's better if you have actually read the original logs before and then you get a funny spin on what you had read.

[Don't give up on society...]

Being religious, I'd rather cheat on my wife than cheat on myself and my classmates

I stopped reading here, because that made absolutely no sense.

[The myth of the opposition]

Yes, and rely on these people.

Oh wait.

You assume that anyone wants to work with Polar. Most of our alliances got wrecked because of them.

If Polar wants our help to take down Pandora's Box, they have a lot of convincing to do first.

Or, put another way - your advice amounts to saying to NPO right after Great War I "You should work on repairing your relations with Legion."

Sure, and that's great for them. They're still going to support Pandora's Box.

MK wasn't the real problem. They're just an enabler.

Well I understand you don't want to work with these people, but I'm just pointing out that you guys may have a common goal. If there was really a want to form an opposition you wouldn't really have to trust these people just use them to achieve your goal.

[The myth of the opposition]

Look at NPO or any of its allies. Which do you seriously see as being able to begin to draw enough alliances towards them to even out the treaty web? If they did succeed, do you think they would side with NPO or the ally that drew them over in a war or possibly even making them choose nuetrality? The only way for things to change is for the NPO side to gain members and ns to take on the opposite side head on or wait for a very long time for leaders to change and alliances politics to move from the current state.

Well it doesn't have to be NPO or any ex-Heg. I think we all saw people who were angry at recent events in a channel recently. Not that those folks have enough political capital to really build anything up yet, but someone really needs to do something.

As per usual, you are just wasting bandwidth with your posts. Intentional or not? At this point Ill say not and figure you just don't know better, despite many would figure to give you some credit. I have no such fate in your capabilities. Its tragicomic you ever was a head of any alliance. Just shows to prove how silly in game democracies are for the overwhelming portion.

gg

umm did you even read my post?

I'm not sure why you're being so hostile to what I said.

[The myth of the opposition]

All of this is working on the assumption that everyone not tied to Superpandoragrievances is (or should be) trying to form an opposition to that group; when in reality, there's really not great need or desire to do so. Sure, we may not be on the "inside", but that doesn't mean that we have any great hostility to those who are.

That's the problem no one is. All the other side is doing is whining about how they can't. If you don't want to form something then don't whine about how you can't. In reality I think all of you guys realize you will all be rolled again eventually. If you enjoy getting rolled go ahead and continue business as usual. Otherwise why not try to change things? You guys really don't have much to lose.

[The myth of the opposition]

You're missing the point though Haf. I agree it would be really hard to form an opposition, but it looked fairly similar to this before Karma started. The way to fight things like this is to find people who secretly dislike each other and slowly move them to opposite sides. It's pretty much no secret that Polar don't like most of the members in this new bloc. It's no secret that there were some ex-MK allies that weren't very happy about being canceled on. Instead of slowly approaching those folks and working toward a common goal all you guys are doing is whining about how hard it would be to form an opposition. Even when MK had treaties and it was only just Super-Grievances (basically just two groups with a lot of common allies). No one wanted to really try to do anything. They just said "I'll kiss up to SF and hope they fight CnG" or "I'll kiss up to CnG and hope they fight SF". You won't get anything to eat if you don't open your mouth.

[Highlights from WCE: Part 20]

All they succeeded in doing was letting us know who are enemies are

Besides maybe a few of the names I've seen like Sparta wasn't it already obvious who these people were?

[A quick apology.]

Yes, well, I speak for GATO in all things.

Really.

Really really.

Just go with it.

oh of course my apologies. I was just trying to keep it secret that you owned GATO. I didn't know you wanted it out in the open master.

[A quick apology.]

Well, I forgive you, Omni.

Time and trolling heal all wounds, as they say.

Thanks

I was more apologizing to GATO though not NSO lol.

[Too much TV . . . . .]

your last jokes were funnier.

[Some CN musings. Plus: navel gazing!]

but horrible timing

Agreed

What's with the pathetic use of a technicality?

I honestly don't see how it's a technicality though. It's in the treaty, Would people have called it a technicality if NSO DoWed us, and we called the treaty void because it contains a non-agression clause? Of course not. People want to have someone to call a coward so they can feel better about their own insecurities. If you notice the same people out there saying that all have yet to activate their still active treaties.

I liked GATO before. Not so much now.

I'm sorry you lost your good opinion of us. We are still the reasonable people we once were. We just don't like the feeling of being used and considered second rate.

For what it's worth I've always considered most PnL alliances fairly like-able.

[My analasys of the war]

It's pretty obvious RoK was just looking for a war, but this wasn't a made up CB. NSO walked straight into this one and with a good bit of hubris. Even though most people are disagreeing with RoK refusing to negotiate this is the most solid CB or possible CB in the recent era. It's way better than "they say mean stuff about us" or "They called me mean names on their irc" and it's a whole lot better than "He said LOL when someone made a joke about my mom"