Mine is better than yours

I voted No. Why change something that isn't broken?

My nation was not established during Pacifica's reign so I have no ill will towards them but I have read enough to know enough.

I think they will do things as any alliance does now. See what a CB is, if they have enough treaties to back up their position they will act if not they will wait until they do.

I would also say they may need to be more careful when they get out of terms as to how they pick their wars. Some may fight against them if the chance is there to simply put them back under terms. I would say even if the NPO don't deserve to have terms again in a future war that some will use the argument that they didn't pay enough and need to have terms again.

Now think about this...

One year of back collections for all of their nations. What size war chests will they all have?

Many of their 3999 infra or higher nations that have zero tech will easily be able to jump from 0 to 500 tech. Massive boost in NS. I believe after terms, they will be able to also reach 2000+ nukes within a month, another massive boost in NS.

So, is letting an alliance that many feared really worth letting them have a year's worth of back collections?

I've read that Pacifica is outstanding at foreign aid slot management...so did KARMA really relieve them of their tech? I don't think so. They will as I said rebuild quickly, have massive war chests, and within a few short months probably be number one in tech.

To say the NPO hasn't changed would be politically ignorant. Pre-Karma NPO was a bully, they'd choose to roll someone, get the allies to drop their treaties with them and the tanks would roll. On occasion it would start a global war when someone stood up and said no.

Now, NPO can't do that, even after this war the political climate has changed in such a way that they'd have a harder time doing so today than they did before. You also only have to look at the attitudes of Pacificans on the OWF to see that they have changed.

They still want to be top dog though, that hasn't changed. And I'm glad it hasn't, someone has to have some ambition in this game.

Naturally they will start to militarize again--it's what alliances that are participating on the world stage in any serious manner do. They will also vault rapidly into first--pretty easy analysis there.

There is no "continue where they left off". Simply put they annoyed too many people before the Karma War. They can however start rebuilding some trust and I think they'll find allies in alliances that see what is happening to IRON and TOP and feel the need for an ally that can act as a counterweight to C&G/SF.

Have they changed? There has been a change of top level leadership since the Karma War and many of the rest of the old guard have left. NPO will be different just on that basis alone.

Will they not 'misbehave' anymore and will behave like a general good alliance...this one made me chuckle. Given what we've seen out of some alliances on Planet Bob the last year, I think you need to lower the bar considerably for what constitutes a "general good alliance". That said, will NPO stand by its treaties and be active on the diplomatic front? I should hope so.

Also, just to clear something up, you have to be cunning to be successful at the top levels of Planet Bob. The road is littered with the bodies of alliances that weren't and NPO's name isn't attached to all those bodies or even half of them.

tl;dr - The correct answer is "Other". NPO has a lot of work ahead of it.

I think they've done a good job making topics like this seem trite. The novelty of being able to say whatever you want about them has worn off. They also don't have to worry about acquiring the evil alliance stigma while everyone else accuses others of being 'hegemonic' and denying they have those traits themselves.

Pacifica has seemingly been neutered sense the Karma war, however that's not to say it isn't possible that they are simply playing nice until they can come out on top again.

No one will know if they have truly changed. Only time will tell; not even themselves know. They can say they have or haven't, but only actions will found the path they are yet to travel in the near future.

No one will know if they have truly changed. Only time will tell; not even themselves know. They can say they have or haven't, but only actions will found the path they are yet to travel in the near future.

I think that Pacifica is perfectly aware as to whether they have changed by now.

I also think we know the answer to the OP is somewhere between "doubtful" and "absolutely not."

We will not, in any way whatsoever, behave at a moral standard that falls below the consensus of role models graciously provided to us by this era's pre-eminent good alliances.

Power in CN is more spread out now, they won't be rolling alliances at will, they know they can't too, so I expect less hubris, and exerting less coercive control over alliances.

(voted other)

I'm thinking we're gonna be more evil.

We will not, in any way whatsoever, behave at a moral standard that falls below the consensus of role models graciously provided to us by this era's pre-eminent good alliances.

Well said !

Whatever direction the Order takes i fully expect them to be more subtle in their powerplays then they were in the past.

I've read that Pacifica is outstanding at foreign aid slot management

You heard wrong. They are pretty much average.

I'd say they'll probably be more evil than they were before. Cortath is by far the most detestable person to lead a major alliance in recent history, and I can only imagine the barbaric injustices that will be carried out in his name.

Cortath barbaric? Hardly. He Drinks tea and says "indeed" - very civilized. Of course its my opinion thats the reason the NPO seems so arrogant, but thats niether here nor there.

As for the topic at hand, ive had several people come to ask my opinon. Here is my current "bet".

The NPO will come out of terms at full sprint. They will be ready. As they rebuild, they will look around at the world. They will then make an announcement stating "Without the order we provided, the dogs of war have torn the world apart. Join us in making a stand against aggression and unjust war! Together we will create a peaceful cybernations that will bloom prosperously. Together we prevail!" And we will. Alliances frustrated with war will join a new economic bloc. And we will party like its 2005.

Or not. But its undeniable that the entire world will be watching the day the terms are lifted.

i believe NPO will not be able to be their old selves due to their allies not being what they once were.

and i dont mean that they are weaker, i mean that a lot of them dropped them like a bad habit during Karma and it should take time to re establish trust in those AAs that are worth resigning with.

also a lot of their former allies dont like the very much politically atm and that restricts what kind of treaty protection they can drum up after terms.

NPO could be the #1 AA in all categories after terms and still not have the strength they had before karma due to the fact that a lot of their friend abandon them during the war, a number of former friends fought against them, and even if they did gain everything back that they lost during Karma.... smart alliances make sure history doesnt repeat itself.

Needs an 'how the hell would I know?" option.

I'd say they'll probably be more evil than they were before. Cortath is by far the most detestable person to lead a major alliance in recent history, and I can only imagine the barbaric injustices that will be carried out in his name.

This doesn't fit with the Cortath I know at all. I'd be interested in hearing any evidence you happen to have - but I suspect that this is just BS "OMG SO EVIL" stuff like Vox used to spread, with no actual basis in reality.

From the time the Karma war ended, I've expected NPO to regain #1 status again. To me, it's inevitable, just a matter of time. Their political ties aren't nearly as strong as before, but the alliance is simply too well organized to just fall apart as some would hope.

Considering things I've seen other alliances do, I don't think NPO fully deserves their "OMG, so evil!" rep. They are certainly strong opponents - but they don't just pick random alliances to attack, as we've seen some do lately. They don't tech raid simply because they can. They've made mistakes, but I think they've learned from some of those. And I've seen worse terms by other alliances than I have from NPO.

We will not, in any way whatsoever, behave at a moral standard that falls below the consensus of role models graciously provided to us by this era's pre-eminent good alliances.

I'm not too sure you could!

This doesn't fit with the Cortath I know at all. I'd be interested in hearing any evidence you happen to have - but I suspect that this is just BS "OMG SO EVIL" stuff like Vox used to spread, with no actual basis in reality.

From the time the Karma war ended, I've expected NPO to regain #1 status again. To me, it's inevitable, just a matter of time. Their political ties aren't nearly as strong as before, but the alliance is simply too well organized to just fall apart as some would hope.

Considering things I've seen other alliances do, I don't think NPO fully deserves their "OMG, so evil!" rep. They are certainly strong opponents - but they don't just pick random alliances to attack, as we've seen some do lately. They don't tech raid simply because they can. They've made mistakes, but I think they've learned from some of those. And I've seen worse terms by other alliances than I have from NPO.

Sarcasm: Stating the opposite of that which is true for comedic effect.

EDIT: That said, to say that Vox just made stuff up makes you look like a fool.

The big change is they've got a persecution complex instead of the vast insecurity they had pre-being-crushed.

The big change is they've got a persecution complex instead of the vast insecurity they had pre-being-crushed.

Persecution complex? We're a neutral alliance with several people actively friendly to us, and nobody being hostile to us, or having any reason to be hostile to us. I don't quite understand where you see a persecution complex.

Considering things I've seen other alliances do, I don't think NPO fully deserves their "OMG, so evil!" rep. They are certainly strong opponents - but they don't just pick random alliances to attack, as we've seen some do lately. They don't tech raid simply because they can. They've made mistakes, but I think they've learned from some of those. And I've seen worse terms by other alliances than I have from NPO.

You literally know nothing about NPO.

Persecution complex? We're a neutral alliance with several people actively friendly to us, and nobody being hostile to us, or having any reason to be hostile to us. I don't quite understand where you see a persecution complex.

"Worst terms in history!" "We died for the rest of the Hegemony's sins!"

Granted, it's not that big of a persecution complex. But it has reared its head.

You literally know nothing about NPO.

"Worst terms in history!" "We died for the rest of the Hegemony's sins!"

Granted, it's not that big of a persecution complex. But it has reared its head.

The "highest reps" is a historically accurate fact, and the "died for your sins" is a reasoned argument, even if there is disagreement. Both are mentioned outside NPO circles, and are not regarded as any form of victimisation when used in that regard. I believe we should be afforded the right to be able to discuss our own recent history in a frank manner, without people trying to attribute psychological disorders or ulterior motives that they somehow "saw between the lines".