Mine is better than yours

the "died for your sins" is a reasoned argument

No persecution complex here.

No persecution complex here.

An opinion you disagree with is not automatically the product of some psychological defect. If you have not learned that in life yet, I truly do pity you.

That the NPO might have shouldered extra blame and punishment for some actions performed by people tied to it is an opinion - a theory. It has an argument and reasoning underlying it, and various levels of data to support it. Now, granted, there are many who feel said argument and data are insufficent; however it is clear that it is no baseless assertion that comes from thin air, but rather something that falls into the realm of political speculation. Given the prospensity of the world to debate about hidden political motives, you cannot deny the NPO to participate in such a free debate by trying to cast some doubious and unproven link between the ability to speculate on motives and an irrational belief of people being out to get us. Regardless of the accuracy of a speculative position, it does not serve as indication of some inherent phobia. There is simply no such progression.

EDIT: That said, to say that Vox just made stuff up makes you look like a fool.

Some of what Vox said was true. Some of what Vox said was just made up. Some of the people from Vox have posted and said "yes, sometimes we just made stuff up". It's not a secret, but feel free to call me names.

You literally know nothing about NPO.

You literally are a liar.

Some of what Vox said was true. Some of what Vox said was just made up. Some of the people from Vox have posted and said "yes, sometimes we just made stuff up". It's not a secret, but feel free to call me names.

I'd like to see some of these posts. As far as I know, nothing was made up other than some posts of a satirical nature (which was plainly evident). How about sharing some links?

An opinion you disagree with is not automatically the product of some psychological defect. If you have not learned that in life yet, I truly do pity you.

That the NPO might have shouldered extra blame and punishment for some actions performed by people tied to it is an opinion - a theory. It has an argument and reasoning underlying it, and various levels of data to support it. Now, granted, there are many who feel said argument and data are insufficent; however it is clear that it is no baseless assertion that comes from thin air, but rather something that falls into the realm of political speculation. Given the prospensity of the world to debate about hidden political motives, you cannot deny the NPO to participate in such a free debate by trying to cast some doubious and unproven link between the ability to speculate on motives and an irrational belief of people being out to get us. Regardless of the accuracy of a speculative position, it does not serve as indication of some inherent phobia. There is simply no such progression.

It fits with all the whining your alliance mates have done since you got some just desserts, and that's all there is to it.

It fits with all the whining your alliance mates have done since you got some just desserts, and that's all there is to it.

That's it? You can't even come up with a counter-argument based on reasoning, so you resort to "well, you're whiners"? I am hard pressed to determine if you are just spouting off the first negative comment that comes to your mind, or if you truly are so arrogant as to believe that your opinions are an axiom into themselves.

Someone spoke my name.

That's it? You can't even come up with a counter-argument based on reasoning, so you resort to "well, you're whiners"? I am hard pressed to determine if you are just spouting off the first negative comment that comes to your mind, or if you truly are so arrogant as to believe that your opinions are an axiom into themselves.

its better than "Mod Bias"

Some of what Vox said was true. Some of what Vox said was just made up. Some of the people from Vox have posted and said "yes, sometimes we just made stuff up". It's not a secret, but feel free to call me names.

Some things were made up. The vast majority of it was true information we gathered from informants.

All I know is that if NPO hasn't at least changed the means to their end, myself and thousands of others will be here to once again smack them down. The world has spoken. Stop trying to overrule other alliances' sovereignty and EZI their gov members. Stop implementing viceroys and permanent terms. If you do it again, we'll knock you down again. And don't expect to get nearly as pleasant terms this time.

You literally are a liar.

The only liar here is you. "They made some mistakes but learned from many of them"? Go away. You're a joke. NPO knew what they were doing and kept doing it as long as they could get away with it, as long as it advanced their agenda. It's far too early to re-write history. NPO are not victims. NPO were not trying to be constructive members of the community who just happened to make a few mistakes and a few wrong attacks. You're either purposely misrepresenting fact (essentially, you're lying) or you're far too new to be talking of NPO so conclusively as to determine their motives and whether they were 'mistakes' or purposeful moves.

There is no wiggle room on this - you are wrong.

Penkala, you speak the truth but will find that its not politically correct to do so on planet Bob. This is a land of selective history and short memory spans.

i will re-state that i do hope NPO has changed but only time will tell.

The only liar here is you. "They made some mistakes but learned from many of them"? Go away. You're a joke. NPO knew what they were doing and kept doing it as long as they could get away with it, as long as it advanced their agenda. It's far too early to re-write history. NPO are not victims. NPO were not trying to be constructive members of the community who just happened to make a few mistakes and a few wrong attacks. You're either purposely misrepresenting fact (essentially, you're lying) or you're far too new to be talking of NPO so conclusively as to determine their motives and whether they were 'mistakes' or purposeful moves.

There is no wiggle room on this - you are wrong.

It is interesting to be the kind of fool that thinks us so smart and so evil, yet so stupid as to be unable to observe a new world and not change.

Most men would rather than think, in fact they do so.

It is a pity to be like most men.

I'm pretty sure they'll have learnt the lessons from their fall, so yes, they will have changed, and that change will have been to rid themselves of the errors of judgement that made them 'evil'. So I don't expect to see EZI, aggressive wars against potential future threats or draconian peace terms from them again – because they know that that kind of thing is what turned the world against them.

From a statistical point of view, they will definitely be no. 1 when they re-militarise, but they have a serious tech deficit (even after the destruction of 30+% of the tech of their main enemies), and they don't have a natural ring of allies large enough to re-establish dominance, so they will have no choice but to fit into a world that doesn't revolve around them – at least until the two remaining parts of Karma (C&G and SF) split up.

I expect to see them courting former allies like TOP, MHA, RIA, Fark, etc ... alliances which dropped them in Karma and who might be susceptible to the 'we have learnt our lesson' approach. I doubt they'll have much success, but with TOP's and MHA's power base (Citadel) destroyed, there are possibilities there. The other place they'll be looking for friendship is the two other Orders, both of whom lack a power cluster since the start of this war.

"We died for the rest of the Hegemony's sins!"

This is actually true to a large degree – the reason the NPO got such huge reparations was because of its role in enabling and supporting the sins of the Hegemony. If you look back at Hegemony wars, it was at least some of the time not the NPO that actually did the actions, but the NPO's size and latent threat was enough to enable the injustice to happen. (A good example would be the Viridicide, Dilrow, or the Valhalla-BAPS war.)

The only liar here is you.

You stated "You literally know nothing about NPO."

But I do know quite a bit about the NPO.

I know, for instance, that Cortath is the Emperor of NPO.

Therefore, you are lying.

It's simple. Much like you.

well any way you look at it, only a fool would be willing to over look the actions of the NPOs history as to ensure it does not repeat itself over time.

You stated "You literally know nothing about NPO."

But I do know quite a bit about the NPO.

I know, for instance, that Cortath is the Emperor of NPO.

Therefore, you are lying.

It's simple. Much like you.

*chuckles*

As Emperor of the New Pacific Order, I will confirm that I am the Emperor of the New Pacific Order, and that therefore, Baldr is correct in identifying me as the Emperor of the New Pacific Order.

Emperor Blackbird

New Pacific Order

Comrade Chuckles

Can't we all just get along?

Nope.

All I know is that if NPO hasn't at least changed the means to their end, myself and thousands of others will be here to once again smack them down. The world has spoken. Stop trying to overrule other alliances' sovereignty and EZI their gov members. Stop implementing viceroys and permanent terms. If you do it again, we'll knock you down again. And don't expect to get nearly as pleasant terms this time.

wait...isnt that exactly what you just did? Are you now NPOs permanent Viceroy and if they step out of line you will "smack them down" ????

wait...isnt that exactly what you just did? Are you now NPOs permanent Viceroy and if they step out of line you will "smack them down" ????

he wouldnt have to.

as long as nobody lets history repeat itself the NPO should be smart enough not to become what they were and the AAs who lived under that time will not let it happen again.

just keep NPOs viceroys where they belong.... in the past

First of your options have a bit biased touch and are not appropriate towards the question.

Now, NPO is under the leadership of Corthat (however you spell his name)

No longer it is trotksyrevenge or Moo pacific order. So obviously there will be new strategy and goals for Pacifica.

The karma defeat was indeed a disastrous blow for NPO, but you gotta give it to them; NPO has the best organization in Bob and have climbed from the bottom to top in less then a year.

Once the terms are over they will be buying them nukes and will gain atleast 2-3 mill in Nuke strength alone.

The power that NPO possessed before was based on the support from their allies. Now that they dont have any allies besides the TPF; they will be more cautious.

I think they will now focus more on who they are allied with this time.

First of your options have a bit biased touch and are not appropriate towards the question.

Now, NPO is under the leadership of Corthat (however you spell his name)

No longer it is trotksyrevenge or Moo pacific order. So obviously there will be new strategy and goals for Pacifica.

The karma defeat was indeed a disastrous blow for NPO, but you gotta give it to them; NPO has the best organization in Bob and have climbed from the bottom to top in less then a year.

Once the terms are over they will be buying them nukes and will gain atleast 2-3 mill in Nuke strength alone.

The power that NPO possessed before was based on the support from their allies. Now that they dont have any allies besides the TPF; they will be more cautious.

I think they will now focus more on who they are allied with this time.

C-o-r-t-a-t-h.