Declaration of war

[Kittiquel]

Have fun

 

:gun: :frantic:

[Xanth]

 

SPATR does not have a sophisticated or involved foreign policy. Have you ever visited their forums? Not impressive.

 

How little you actually know about the people you talk about....

[Unknown Smurf]

 
SPATR does not have a sophisticated or involved foreign policy. Have you ever visited their forums? Not impressive.

Yes because forums are really indicative of that in this day and age...

Most of spatr communicates via other mediums and they are one of the most active alliances I've seen around recently.

[Beauty]

To be fair to Tywin, I've always seen SPATR as a kind of "Mushquaeda style AA" for DBDC as well since they had like dual members or some thing one time. Idk and didn't care to learn about it so I just assumed that.

[Custodian]

To be fair to Tywin, I've always seen SPATR as a kind of "Mushquaeda style AA" for DBDC as well since they had like dual members or some thing one time. Idk and didn't care to learn about it so I just assumed that.

 

Frankly, I think the idea of using a "Mushquaeda style AA" to illicitly conduct wars is rather reprehensible.

[Caladin]

I have this strange suspicion that no one actually bothered talking to TDO (or, if they did, they didn't wait for a reply) before pushing the big red button.

[Mcclaud]

As far as I'm aware, no communications were received by The Democratic Order prior to being attacked. That said, I'm not sure if other members of TDO Government were contacted, I sure wasn't. No authorisation for Gitami's spy operation was given; there would have been no reason why I as Minister of Defense would feel compelled for any of our members to commit a breach of our neutrality. Gitami was acting alone in his desire to perform the operation.

 

I find it wholly unfortunate that SPATR felt the need to declare war on us before allowing us to conduct an investigation into this incident. I have had to perform a few such investigations, and they have, for the most part, satisfied both parties involved. No shots needed to have been fired over this incident, it would have been cleaned up without it. That said, I can also understand SPATR's decision, even though I am very much against it.

 

Nevertheless, this incident has been dealt with, Gitami was removed from TDO, and a white peace agreed.

[KahlanRahl]

Shoot first, ask questions later. Sounds like a real solid strategy. 

[Kittiquel]

Shoot first, ask questions later. Sounds like a real solid strategy. 

 

I've always been fond of this strategy.

[Unknown Smurf]

To be fair to Tywin, I've always seen SPATR as a kind of "Mushquaeda style AA" for DBDC as well since they had like dual members or some thing one time. Idk and didn't care to learn about it so I just assumed that.

 

They only have one dual member. Same as DT or TJL or FEAR.. do you consider all of those Mushquaeda style AAs? 

 

 

As far as I'm aware, no communications were received by The Democratic Order prior to being attacked. That said, I'm not sure if other members of TDO Government were contacted, I sure wasn't. No authorisation for Gitami's spy operation was given; there would have been no reason why I as Minister of Defense would feel compelled for any of our members to commit a breach of our neutrality. Gitami was acting alone in his desire to perform the operation.

 

I find it wholly unfortunate that SPATR felt the need to declare war on us before allowing us to conduct an investigation into this incident. I have had to perform a few such investigations, and they have, for the most part, satisfied both parties involved. No shots needed to have been fired over this incident, it would have been cleaned up without it. That said, I can also understand SPATR's decision, even though I am very much against it.

 

Nevertheless, this incident has been dealt with, Gitami was removed from TDO, and a white peace agreed.

 

From my understanding SPATR was spied multiple times (successfully) and then this failed attempt by a TDO nation happened, they must have believed that all of the spy attempts were from TDOers. 

 

Honestly we should be giving SPATR credit for allowing this to deescalate after initial declarations. They did not declare war until over 24 hours after the incident (while waiting for a response from TDO) and did not even immediately attack after declaring war (waited 12 more hours to give TDO a chance). 

Edited July 27, 2014 by Unknown Smurf

[Unknown Smurf]

Shoot first, ask questions later. Sounds like a real solid strategy. 

 

You of all people should understand that SPATR doesn't do that as one of your members recently failed a spy op against them and SPATR handled it diplomatically. 

[Walshington]

I've always seen SPATR as a kind of "Mushquaeda style AA" for DBDC .

 

SPATR actually pre-dates the existence of DBDC. DBDC was founded in January of 2013 as a three-man alliance on the eve of the EQ War.

 

SPATR has been around since at least October of 2012, and came together under unrelated circumstances.

[Lurunin]

 

SPATR actually pre-dates the existence of DBDC. DBDC was founded in January of 2013 as a three-man alliance on the eve of the EQ War.

 

SPATR has been around since at least October of 2012, and came together under unrelated circumstances.

 

 

SPATR was around before then even..they had a name change if i remember right

 

edit: also get your ass on IRC old man :P

Edited July 27, 2014 by Lurunin

[KahlanRahl]

 

You of all people should understand that SPATR doesn't do that as one of your members recently failed a spy op against them and SPATR handled it diplomatically. 

 

That's interesting, because from what I'm reading, it's exactly what they did in this situation. I don't care if they acted diplomatically in some other situation with Dolphin, that I wasn't even aware of. It's not relevant to this announcement. 

[Unknown Smurf]

 

That's interesting, because from what I'm reading, it's exactly what they did in this situation. I don't care if they acted diplomatically in some other situation with Dolphin, that I wasn't even aware of. It's not relevant to this announcement. 

 

They messaged TDO and gave TDO 24 hours to respond before declaring any wars. 

 

They did the same with MI6, but y'all responded in a reasonable amount of time. It seems to me as though you are trying to discredit SPATR just for the sake of discrediting them, they have been nothing but consistent. 

[Groucho Marx]

 

That's interesting, because from what I'm reading, it's exactly what they did in this situation. I don't care if they acted diplomatically in some other situation with Dolphin, that I wasn't even aware of. It's not relevant to this announcement. 

 

Sorry buddy but you're full of it. SPATR handled this very reasonably from start to finish. 

[Auctor]

It's weird to say it's a poor strategy when it got exactly the intended result with very little kick back. Might be unorthodox, but it was effective.

[Beauty]

They only have one dual member. Same as DT or TJL or FEAR.. do you consider all of those Mushquaeda style AAs? 

Yes

[KahlanRahl]

They messaged TDO and gave TDO 24 hours to respond before declaring any wars. 
 
They did the same with MI6, but y'all responded in a reasonable amount of time. It seems to me as though you are trying to discredit SPATR just for the sake of discrediting them, they have been nothing but consistent.

 
 

Sorry buddy but you're full of it. SPATR handled this very reasonably from start to finish.

So TDO's response here was just hot air?
 

As far as I'm aware, no communications were received by The Democratic Order prior to being attacked. That said, I'm not sure if other members of TDO Government were contacted, I sure wasn't. No authorisation for Gitami's spy operation was given; there would have been no reason why I as Minister of Defense would feel compelled for any of our members to commit a breach of our neutrality. Gitami was acting alone in his desire to perform the operation.
 
I find it wholly unfortunate that SPATR felt the need to declare war on us before allowing us to conduct an investigation into this incident. I have had to perform a few such investigations, and they have, for the most part, satisfied both parties involved. No shots needed to have been fired over this incident, it would have been cleaned up without it. That said, I can also understand SPATR's decision, even though I am very much against it.
 
Nevertheless, this incident has been dealt with, Gitami was removed from TDO, and a white peace agreed.

Unless there was some further revelation between TDO's government members, this is what I'm going by. Hence, shoot first, ask questions later.

Edited July 27, 2014 by KahlanRahl

[The Zigur]

I have this strange suspicion that no one actually bothered talking to TDO (or, if they did, they didn't wait for a reply) before pushing the big red button.

 

That's because it was a DBDC style raid in the lower tiers.

 

Also, my respect goes to the Izz ad Din al Qassam Brigades for confronting this attack upon neutrality. We all remember the fate of Mushqaeda, and should this unwarranted act of aggression have occurred any longer I am certain that more would have joined the fight.

[Walshington]

That's because it was a DBDC style raid in the lower tiers.

 

Pretty good planning for it by somehow getting a confederate from the victim AA to spy and get caught, thus providing the CB.

 

Is that how DBDC does it?  Because I thought they just showed up on your doorstep without a CB, but honestly, having no nations in that range I never really paid much attention.

 

Also, my respect goes to the Izz ad Din al Qassam Brigades for confronting this attack upon neutrality. We all remember the fate of Mushqaeda, and should this unwarranted act of aggression have occurred any longer I am certain that more would have joined the fight.

 

First, I don't believe this was an attack on neutrality.  Neither does SPATR in their official commentary on the matter, and, as a matter of fact, neither do you, if you think it was a DBDC style raid. 

 

In this case, the Izz ad Din al Qassam Brigades was one nation, which came from within TDO.  So we had a TDO member defending TDO under a different AA.  Not a bad thing -- expected, even -- but not exactly a worldwide grass-roots response to a threat on neutrality.

 

Whatever this was, it is now in the rearview mirror.

[Dre4mwe4ver]

Aren't most activations of treaties to declare war nowadays excellent examples of "shoot first, ask questions later"?

I'm not sure anyone here raising objections in this vein are exactly in a position to be critical using this particular train of thought. Unless this train's the Hypocrisy Express, in which case, please, as you were.

In any case, glad to see a resolution achieved by both parties. o/

Edited July 27, 2014 by Dre4mwe4ver

[KahlanRahl]

Aren't most activations of treaties to declare war nowadays excellent examples of "shoot first, ask questions later"?

I'm not sure anyone here raising objections in this vein are exactly in a position to be critical using this particular train of thought. Unless this train's the Hypocrisy Express, in which case, please, as you were.

In any case, glad to see a resolution achieved by both parties. o/

 

Treaty activations are not the same thing, in my opinion, as knee-jerk reactions to the shenanigans of one member, a member of a neutral alliance. 

Edited July 27, 2014 by KahlanRahl

[Dre4mwe4ver]

Treaty activations are not the same thing, in my opinion, as knee-jerk reactions to the shenanigans of one member, a member of a neutral alliance. 

That's a valid opinion. In my opinion, the reaction may be knee-jerk, and yes, perhaps rather dramatic, but it was a measured course of action in response to an act of war with the intent of achieving a result, which, as we see, has been achieved as the product of successful diplomacy. On the other hand, declarations of war because of treaty activations are far too commonly issued at the drop of the hat, with even less talk before shooting, and with an absence of willingness to negotiate a solution to the problem, only the intent of violence until satisfied. While I believe that generally speaking, they are more alike than not, I would certainly agree with you that they are not precisely identical situations. I think we'll have different ideas when it comes to which is worse, though. Edited July 27, 2014 by Dre4mwe4ver

[Auctor]

Welcome to Planet Bob, where we create ten threads about how someone should do something abrupt and rash for every one thread where we complain that someone's done something abrupt and rash.