kevin32891 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 DH just fight the dam war that you started and enjoy it. I sure as hell do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1300399676' post='2668260'] I've heard the expression if it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is a duck. I personally went out of my way to make a new avatar for Archon, I hope he enjoys it. [img]http://keenetrial.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/liar-liar-pants-on-fire.jpg[/img] [/quote] I don't really think that proverb applies here since nobody can point out anything he does. I guess no smoke without a fire would be better here. No need to thank me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamuella Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300399789' post='2668264'] What makes it perma-war is when one party demands something so absurd from another party that they know the second party can't possibly accept it. [/quote] so what you're saying is that the assessment of whether or not something is a perma-war is subjective? I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karolina Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1300399453' post='2668248'] No, you're naive in thinking that Doom House is going to be lenient to NPO. They really aren't. Yep, we'll see. [/quote] You think this is lenient? Let's see how strong the two sides are after a month of fighting like this. Edited March 17, 2011 by Karolina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1300399912' post='2668271'] Who said he lied? I said he manipulated and misdirected facts and people knowingly in Karma to suit his and his allies goals. You really trying to dispute that? Wow...if so then please show me where he didnt do all those things and told the complete and honest truth every time he was queried by non allied .gov on the other side of a developing war...you cant So yea NPO has every right to mistrust what is being said because you are their enemy and anyone whom trusts there enemy's words at face value is an IDIOT. Would MK trust anything Cortath or mhawk said at face value? I think not... [/quote] Manipulating and misdirect facts would actually be lying. He didn't however and if he had we'd all have proof of it long long ago. I can see why you really want it to be true though. Can't be hard to swallow your pride and face up to your own responsibility on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ty345 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Ugh... please stop making me sympathize with NPO. Please... DH started a war with no CB because you don't like NPO. You don't get to complain when NPO doesn't let you sucker-punch them on your terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potato Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='Henry' timestamp='1300399308' post='2668241'] So you don't want peace and you don't want permawar. Interesting. [/quote] That's not what he said and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300400100' post='2668280'] Manipulating and misdirect facts would actually be lying. He didn't however and if he had we'd all have proof of it long long ago. I can see why you really want it to be true though. Can't be hard to swallow your pride and face up to your own responsibility on that one. [/quote] how about you go and read what Archon wrote as the voice of Karma then come back and see how much that world he spoke of actually exists. but i guess if you read it literally, "getting rid of the tyranny of NPO" (that is basically the gist of it) did happen. the rest that had to do with the crimes of NPO i guess was not meant to be lumped into that eh? so i guess it is okay since we are under the tyranny of MK instead of NPO. same or similar crimes, just a different alliance and one lead by the "Voice of Karma" at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenzilla Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='ty345' timestamp='1300400206' post='2668282'] Ugh... please stop making me sympathize with NPO. Please... DH started a war with no CB because you don't like NPO. You don't get to complain when NPO doesn't let you sucker-punch them on your terms. [/quote] Insert NPO to GATO peace mode terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penkala Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote]Eternal war one of the 2 choices you are forcing on them[/quote] Eternal war is [i]always[/i] one of the choices forced on a defeated alliance at war. Luckily, the other option is complete white peace, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ty345 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='Chickenzilla' timestamp='1300400369' post='2668288'] Insert NPO to GATO peace mode terms. [/quote] So we're allowed to roll whoever we want for past crimes, no matter how irrelevant they are today? Okay, I'm pretty sure that includes, oh, 90% of the top 40 alliances or so. I'd start soon if I were you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1300399899' post='2668269'] from what i read from his post, it appeared that Sparta at least was told that this war was to keep NPO from hitting PB, which Sparta does have allies in. So, you did not lie to an ally just instead another alliance. so, this just shows that MK is willing to lie to alliances that are not their allies which NPO is what exactly? oh that is right, an enemy. if ya'll willing to lie to alliances on the same front as ya'll, then why should we believe you won't lie to an enemy? [/quote] I know you really like the "omg mk r evil hegemonies" line but you culd at least try to base it on facts or at least some logic that makes sense. We have no treaty with sparta, I'm fairly certain they did not enter this war for our sake. So no we did not lie to get them into this war in fact I doubt we said anything to them to get them into this war since it's not our palce to do so. These are not the puppetmasters you're looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Greenberg Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1300399608' post='2668254'] The statement "if terms cannot be agreed upon the war will naturally continue" could be made about [b][color="#FF0000"]EVERY WAR IN THE HISTORY OF THE CYBERVERSE[/color][/b] War continues until peace terms are agreed on. That's how war works. That doesn't make it a perma-war. It makes it a [b]war[/b]. [/quote] It's different this war. You declared on NPO because they grew back, because you were paranoid about them, because they were a potential "threat", because you had a grudge against them. This CB is as good as the Coalition's DoW on New Polar Order. The CB is so bad that NPO shouldn't succumb to your demands for peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1300399983' post='2668276'] so what you're saying is that the assessment of whether or not something is a perma-war is subjective? I agree. [/quote] Not quite, but you have to break it down to a deep level of analysis to determine whether or not it is the case. For NPO, and for many of us in this coalition, we see no reason to "buy" a peace by fulfilling terms, when there is no guarantee that you won't just attack us out of the blue again like you did in this war. That's the big problem with how you chose to enter this war while trampling over every convention you could find. Now, it's true that every man has his price, but right now, the price you offer is far, far too steep for the level of trust we hold in you. Since it's clear now that this wasn't some "strategy" related to the Polar front and rather an excuse to attack out of hatred and paranoia, there is no reason any of us have to trust you. Sure, maybe you'll give us peace for a little while after the terms are fulfilled, but the question is how long could we expect it to last, given that you have demonstrated a total lack of regard for the conventions of this world? You broke the conventions, so it is absurd that you would then hold us to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1300400298' post='2668286'] how about you go and read what Archon wrote as the voice of Karma then come back and see how much that world he spoke of actually exists. but i guess if you read it literally, "getting rid of the tyranny of NPO" (that is basically the gist of it) did happen. the rest that had to do with the crimes of NPO i guess was not meant to be lumped into that eh? so i guess it is okay since we are under the tyranny of MK instead of NPO. same or similar crimes, just a different alliance and one lead by the "Voice of Karma" at that. [/quote] How about you do the same and tell me what he promised because I don't remember him promising to rid the world of all evil forever. He gave some good reasons to beat up npo and that's what we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Williambonney Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300399975' post='2668274'] I don't really think that proverb applies here since nobody can point out anything he does. I guess no smoke without a fire would be better here. No need to thank me. [/quote] [quote]Since Archon's signature is on that surrender, MK did in fact partake in NPO's surrender.[/quote] Seems to me a signature from Archon is baseless, but I then I wouldn't be able complain that there was no cb in this current war even if you did have one to sign anyhow. Your welcome by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Nakara Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300399789' post='2668264'] What makes it perma-war is when one party demands something so absurd from another party that they know the second party can't possibly accept it. [b]Like what GOONS is demanding of CoJ.[/b] [/quote] Anyone seeing as HoT sees fit to mention it, but when asked about it blanks the question? What terms have GOONS offered CoJ that are that heinous that they can't possibly accept? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagrr Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='potato' timestamp='1300400210' post='2668284'] That's not what he said and you know it. [/quote] Oh really? [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300398560' post='2668216'] We're not interested in Eternal war with NPO.[/quote] [quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300398920' post='2668229'] You're the one who wants peace. [/quote] I guess the sky isn't blue either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1300400593' post='2668301'] Seems to me a signature from Archon is baseless, but I then I wouldn't be able complain that there was no cb in this current war even if you did have one to sign anyhow. Your welcome by the way. [/quote] NPO already surrendered to us in a completely different war that happened two years ago? This changes everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1300400460' post='2668296'] It's different this war. You declared on NPO because they grew back, because you were paranoid about them, because they were a potential "threat", because you had a grudge against them. This CB is as good as the Coalition's DoW on New Polar Order. The CB is so bad that NPO shouldn't succumb to your demands for peace. [/quote] For the record, in WotC, Polar fully deserved what they got. They had yet to pay for their sins. This is different, NPO has paid it's dues and has long since changed as an alliance. The term "noCB" refers exclusively to side drama between, what was it, GGA and Hyperion? This war is, however, definitely born out of paranoia and hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamuella Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1300400460' post='2668296'] It's different this war. [/quote] Of course it is. [quote] You declared on NPO because they grew back, because you were paranoid about them, because they were a potential "threat", because you had a grudge against them. This CB is as good as the Coalition's DoW on New Polar Order. The CB is so bad that NPO shouldn't succumb to your demands for peace. [/quote] That's nice, but nothing whatsoever to do with what I was saying. Let me try again: Every single war that has been fought and has ended, where both sides still existed at the end of the war, ended when terms were offered and agreed on by both sides. Almost every war has had a point where terms were offered and refused, and the war continued until terms were agreed upon. Please at least tell me that you agree that this is what usually happens, and that the phrase "if terms cannot be agreed upon the war will naturally continue" thus applies to all wars. Whether you agree with the reason for the war, whether you agree with the terms asked [i]all wars continue until terms can be agreed upon[/i]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterman1043 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 This right here makes me sad to be on the black team... Just end the damn war already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Nakara Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='Hunterman1043' timestamp='1300400964' post='2668315'] This right here makes me sad to be on the black team... Just end the damn war already. [/quote] There is always pink waiting for you? sorry I couldn't help myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Greenberg Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300400774' post='2668309'] For the record, in WotC, Polar fully deserved what they got. They had yet to pay for their sins. This is different, NPO has paid it's dues and has long since changed as an alliance. The term "noCB" refers exclusively to side drama between, what was it, GGA and Hyperion? This war is, however, definitely born out of paranoia and hate. [/quote] The reasons for the war was for a grudge. Not going to argue it though....and yes....I know the GGA war was noCB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroofTime55 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 [quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1300400626' post='2668302'] Anyone seeing as HoT sees fit to mention it, but when asked about it blanks the question? What terms have GOONS offered CoJ that are that heinous that they can't possibly accept? [/quote] Well for starters, terms that I am fairly certain it is a violation of divine law to demand (And I have been encouraging my friend Schattenmann to go to the realm of the divine with that charge). But besides that, an assumed half billion in reps (Given that the play is possibly a violation of divine law) from a 20 man alliance that has been ravaged by war? You can't possibly mean to tell me that that number is at all reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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