An agreement of peace

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1299445440' post='2654619']
Personal insults? I'm not aware of any personal insults I have used. Character assassination isn't my style, unlike you and the rest of Doom House.

If you're referring to my "morons" and suchlike...well now, that's just fact.
[/quote]
Thank you for proving my point.

[inspuration]

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1299445440' post='2654619']
Personal insults? I'm not aware of any personal insults I have used. [b]Character assassination isn't my style, unlike you and the rest of Doom House[/b].If you're referring to my "morons" and suchlike...well now, that's just fact.
[/quote]

Grow up.

[lamuella]

Hadrian, I implore you to keep posting, and further spread the image of NPO professionalism. You really are a wonderful ambassador for your alliance.

[Hadrian]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1299445613' post='2654626']
Thank you for proving my point.
[/quote]
And what point was that? That GOONS really is a bunch of morons, the majority of whom have no clue what actual politics is about? In that case, I am glad to have helped, please come again.

[quote name='inspuration' timestamp='1299445678' post='2654628']
Grow up.
[/quote]
I am right and you know it.

Isn't that supposed to be inspiration*?

Oh dear.

[Hadrian]

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1299445722' post='2654629']
Hadrian, I implore you to keep posting, and further spread the image of NPO professionalism. You really are a wonderful ambassador for your alliance.
[/quote]
Lamuella, I implore you to [ooc]use quote tags whenever you respond[/ooc] as it makes it much easier to do this back and forth thing. Might just be the first step on your path to true professionalism too.

Except, I'm not a part of the NPO...


...

[blueski]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299445508' post='2654622']
What alliances has Pacifica murdered, out of curiosity?

And Sardy, you already said that they [i]only[/i] got light terms because of their early surrender, hell I think it was on page 1. [i]Why so backpedal?[/i]
[/quote]
What backpedaling? NAC received [i]light[/i] reps because of the circumstances, the rest of you will receive [i]fair[/i] reps. Is your alliance so tiny there's no room for dictionaries?

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299445508' post='2654622']
What alliances has Pacifica murdered, out of curiosity?

And Sardy, you already said that they [i]only[/i] got light terms because of their early surrender, hell I think it was on page 1. [i]Why so backpedal?[/i]
[/quote]

Hi.


Actually somebody once had a sig made that had a bunch of disbanded alliances in it, think it was Karma propaganda. Anybody still got one kicking around?

Edited March 6, 2011 by TypoNinja

[lamuella]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299445508' post='2654622']
What alliances has Pacifica murdered, out of curiosity?
[/quote]

want a complete list? I'll give it a go...

Warpstorm,
NAAC
LUE
VE (in its first incarnation)
GOLD
Devildogs
Golden Sabres
Confederacy of Imperial States

This is a moderately complete list of alliances that disbanded while in wars with NPO on the other side. Obviously, NPO didn't have an active hand in all of these, but they definitely had a hand in several.

[lamuella]

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1299446299' post='2654638']
Lamuella, I implore you to [ooc]use quote tags whenever you respond[/ooc] as it makes it much easier to do this back and forth thing. Might just be the first step on your path to true professionalism too.

Except, I'm not a part of the NPO...


...
[/quote]

I can't imagine what made me think you were in NPO (apart from your lack of listed AA and NPO branding). My apologies to them for the slur.

[Earogema]

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1299447234' post='2654653']
want a complete list? I'll give it a go...

Warpstorm,
NAAC
LUE
VE (in its first incarnation)
GOLD
Devildogs
Golden Sabres
Confederacy of Imperial States

This is a moderately complete list of alliances that disbanded while in wars with NPO on the other side. Obviously, NPO didn't have an active hand in all of these, but they definitely had a hand in several.
[/quote]
And yet none of those seem to be after Karma. It should also be noted that VE had a hand in NAAC and LUE and also was not forced to disband. They disbanded after 1 day of war of their own accord. Now, they may have eventually been forced to disband but we will never know now.

Granted though, he did ask which alliances at all. Pretty stupid question.

[lamuella]

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1299449818' post='2654690']
And yet none of those seem to be after Karma. It should also be noted that VE had a hand in NAAC and LUE and also was not forced to disband. They disbanded after 1 day of war of their own accord. Now, they may have eventually been forced to disband but we will never know now.

Granted though, he did ask which alliances at all. Pretty stupid question.
[/quote]

You make some good points, but I don't think it's possible to say "NPO haven't disbanded anyone since Karma" as a definite positive when they haven't won a war since Karma. We haven't had the chance to see how they would behave in a similar situation. All we can say for certain is that when they did have the power to disband other alliances, they exercised that power.

I'm sure NPO would argue that they have changed. I'm not sure I see evidence of that.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1299449818' post='2654690']
And yet none of those seem to be after Karma. It should also be noted that VE had a hand in NAAC and LUE and also was not forced to disband. They disbanded after 1 day of war of their own accord. Now, they may have eventually been forced to disband but we will never know now.

Granted though, he did ask which alliances at all. Pretty stupid question.
[/quote]Are we allowed to list all alliances that happened to disband during warfare against PB/CnG/SF/etc alliances and then blame each one of those on Doomhouse specifically regardless of who is actually at fault (inclusive of the disbanding alliance itself)?

Can someone get started on that? I'd like to see where it takes us.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1299451590' post='2654727']
You make some good points, but I don't think it's possible to say "NPO haven't disbanded anyone since Karma" as a definite positive when they haven't won a war since Karma. We haven't had the chance to see how they would behave in a similar situation. All we can say for certain is that when they did have the power to disband other alliances, they exercised that power.

I'm sure NPO would argue that they have changed. I'm not sure I see evidence of that.
[/quote]
So, you punish them for not having changed, when your only evidence is their past, a past which they have already paid the price for long before this war began.



Wouldn't that be awesome, a guy gets released from jail and then at some arbitrary date in the future they throw him back in on charges he already did the time for. Gotta love Doomhut logic.

[Choson]

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1299446087' post='2654634']
And what point was that? That GOONS really is a bunch of morons, the majority of whom have no clue what actual politics is about? In that case, I am glad to have helped, please come again.
[/quote]
Resorting to childish insults and having a huge superiority complex is not professional. Instead of telling others to grow up, maybe you should take your own advice first before trying to tell others what to do.

I know that you're going to retort with some pseudo-smug reply that just makes you look even more childish, but that proves our point.

[NoFish]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299451733' post='2654733']
Are we allowed to list all alliances that happened to disband during warfare against PB/CnG/SF/etc alliances and then blame each one of those on Doomhouse specifically regardless of who is actually at fault (inclusive of the disbanding alliance itself)?

Can someone get started on that? I'd like to see where it takes us.
[/quote]
I'm just going to go ahead and say that GOD will be taking the credit for all of these. Doomhouse ain't got nothing on us.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299452054' post='2654737']
So, you punish them for not having changed, when your only evidence is their past, a past which they have already paid the price for long before this war began.



Wouldn't that be awesome, a guy gets released from jail and then at some arbitrary date in the future they throw him back in on charges he already did the time for. Gotta love Doomhut logic.
[/quote]
Maybe Doomhouse thinks that NPO didn't serve their time. We're here to issue the rest of their punishment.

We're the heroes that Bob deserves.

[Yggdrazil]

[quote]

We're the heroes that Bob deserves.
[/quote]
I read this with a nuance; you maybe did not intend.

Edited March 7, 2011 by Yggdrazil

[Heft]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1299434754' post='2654524']
As far as people dogpiling on us, I don't see how all the things I've read sync up. [b]You claim that people dogpiled on us because it was "necessary" and we were the "first major target," except Roquentin posted a blog in which tons of people on your said said they never expected GOONS to surrender.[/b] So what was your plan? To attack the "first major target" that will never surrender? It was "necessary" to attack someone who will never surrender over other targets? Or was it just to lay the smack down on GOONS and destroy us as your final act? In which case, uh, kinda sounds like you're just attacking us cause you don't like us. I'm not sure I understand your battle tactic here. I think [i]someone[/i] isn't telling the truth.[/quote]
Uh, okay? Clearly the second part of that sentence is meant to rebut the first part, except that it has absolutely nothing to do with the first part. This is like saying you can't be a human because I heard some other guys say that they think you're an ass. It is a pretty impressive achievement in illogic, I will give you credit for that.

[quote]As far as reps go, the only justification we need is the one Sardonic already stated publicly. We charge reps to people who attack us. It doesn't matter why or how they attacked us, just that they did. And they did. The people we just peaced with in this thread were evaluated and given terms that we considered reasonable given their circumstances. Whether you agree or disagree with the MDP vs oA entry is irrelevant as you aren't dictating the terms. It's a factor that we considered and will continue to consider when we issue terms for peace for others beyond these in this thread. You're free to disagree with that, but it's not going to change anything.
[/quote]
I think we all understand GOONS policy on the issue and as I expressed earlier to Denial I'm well aware that my posts here are unlikely to have much of an effect on what you demand, but that's not really the point of my posts, so continuing to point that out doesn't really matter.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1299472303' post='2655020']
Uh, okay? Clearly the second part of that sentence is meant to rebut the first part, except that it has absolutely nothing to do with the first part. This is like saying you can't be a human because I heard some other guys say that they think you're an ass. It is a pretty impressive achievement in illogic, I will give you credit for that.[/quote]
No, really. I want to know what the plan was. Your side said they never thought GOONS would surrender, so why did you attack us (and only us) first if you had a list of other people that needed attacking? Did you think you could beat us down so far that even though we wouldn't surrender you could move on to other targets or something? I'm really trying to figure out what the plan was if you guys decided 11 alliances needed to pile on one target knowing full well that you couldn't force a surrender out of them.

You say it was "necessary" like it was an important tactical decision. So I'd like to know what advantage or reason there was to focus the full force of 11 alliances on someone you can't beat. Either that or GOONS is just so dangerous you guys had to eliminate us immediately.

Whatever the plan was, I don't think it carried through very well. From what I've seen in this thread, people surrendered to us because they felt like they were putting effort into it where their allies weren't. Then your side insulted the people surrendering, while most of them are still sitting in peace mode (I won't call NSO out on that, you guys are pretty low on the peace scale compared).

[Heft]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1299472707' post='2655025']
No, really. I want to know what the plan was. Your side said they never thought GOONS would surrender, so why did you attack us (and only us) first if you had a list of other people that needed attacking? Did you think you could beat us down so far that even though we wouldn't surrender you could move on to other targets or something? I'm really trying to figure out what the plan was if you guys decided 11 alliances needed to pile on one target knowing full well that you couldn't force a surrender out of them.

You say it was "necessary" like it was an important tactical decision. So I'd like to know what advantage or reason there was to focus the full force of 11 alliances on someone you can't beat. Either that or GOONS is just so dangerous you guys had to eliminate us immediately.

Whatever the plan was, I don't think it carried through very well. From what I've seen in this thread, people surrendered to us because they felt like they were putting effort into it where their allies weren't. Then your side insulted the people surrendering, while most of them are still sitting in peace mode (I won't call NSO out on that, you guys are pretty low on the peace scale compared).
[/quote]
I probably shouldn't have said "necessary" - clearly we could have done any number of things. From the options available, the path so far taken has been one of the better ones. It hasn't been executed perfectly, and management of the coalition hasn't been perfect. That said, both of those aspects have been a lot better than anyone had any reason to expect entering into a coalition of this sort in a war like this that none of us wanted. I'm not sure why you not surrendering is important. Obviously you have the upper hand and GOONS aren't some random !@#$hole alliance that disappears at the sight of an actual fight. Of course you're not going to surrender. We had limited resources and limited capacities. Focusing on you at the start seemed like the most effective use of those resources. I'm not sure why this is such a big deal, other than it doesn't mesh with this new narrative of "They're attacking GOONS just because they hate GOONS." People aren't going to enter into a likely losing war just to get some nukes off on you, sorry. Well, people might, but alliances don't. Besides, you don't think anyone wants to hit MK?

As for the "insults," they've been very minimal and quite restrained, on the whole. Obviously there was some initial anger, especially since most of us disagree with the reasons they've expressed for leaving the war, as well as the method in which they left, at least in the case of Olympus (no one really has a serious problem with NAC exiting at this time). But most of us have been content to leave them be so long as they don't try and disparage us too much.


(And I must be off for awhile)

[Earogema]

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1299451590' post='2654727']
You make some good points, but I don't think it's possible to say "NPO haven't disbanded anyone since Karma" as a definite positive when they haven't won a war since Karma. We haven't had the chance to see how they would behave in a similar situation. All we can say for certain is that when they did have the power to disband other alliances, they exercised that power.

I'm sure NPO would argue that they have changed. I'm not sure I see evidence of that.
[/quote]
True enough. Although I would argue that no alliance could muster the political capital needed to disband an alliance post-Karma. Course that is just my guess.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1299451590' post='2654727']
You make some good points, but I don't think it's possible to say "NPO haven't disbanded anyone since Karma" as a definite positive when they haven't won a war since Karma. We haven't had the chance to see how they would behave in a similar situation. All we can say for certain is that when they did have the power to disband other alliances, they exercised that power.

I'm sure NPO would argue that they have changed. I'm not sure I see evidence of that.
[/quote]
The burden of proof should fall on the accuser, but then might makes right doesn't it?

[Jocko Homo]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299445508' post='2654622']What alliances has Pacifica murdered, out of curiosity?[/quote]

The terms NPO issued to FAN was literally "Die".

NPO tried to murder FAN. There is no comeback to this very clear and well known fact. End. Of. Argument.

[Eddard Stark]

We're derailing this once again...

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1299476348' post='2655073']
The terms NPO issued to FAN was literally "Die".

NPO tried to murder FAN. There is no comeback to this very clear and well known fact. End. Of. Argument.
[/quote]
http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=2818
Do you mean these terms, that were stated to last for three months, during which time fan was a protectorate of the new pacific order until they violated said terms?