A Dark Templar Announcement

[Goldie]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1297884920' post='2635827']
In a war, you generally attack those who give you the highest opportunity for success.
[/quote]

Err, maybe for you guys sure, but you don't win coalition wars by cherry-picking targets like you did here. You don't take heat off of your allies by taking the target that gives you the highest opportunity for success. Maybe you should re-think that strategy if you don't want people calling you opportunistic, and then treating you like an opportunistic alliance who they want to punish for hitting the 'easy' target.

[Sam Winters]

[quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1297885141' post='2635830']
I am and I realize that, but I find it hard to watch LoSS talk !@#$ at all when they have been gutted pretty bad. Anyone that knows me I'm sure will understand my reasoning and give me a pass.
[/quote]

Just about as bad as CSN. Then again, you didn't do so hot for a week either.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='The Great One' timestamp='1297881919' post='2635785']
LoSS said they weren't leaving while their ally was still in the fight. Therefore white peace or OVER 9,000 tech, terms didn't matter, LoSS was staying in it. So what were you saying again?

/me pats TypoNinja on the head. Come again when you're actually ready.
[/quote]

Oh yes, by all means we should pay LoSS to exit a war they are losing.

No, that just stupid. Like most of the posts from your AA.

LoSS being irrationally stubborn is not anybodies problem but their own. The war is already lost for them, trying to martyr themselves won't change that. If they want to refuse white peace that is seriously and completely their issue.

Oh oh, but hey, guess who's not going to get offered white peace? Go on guess!

[AuiNur]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1297885584' post='2635835']
Err, maybe for you guys sure, but you don't win coalition wars by cherry-picking targets like you did here. You don't take heat off of your allies by taking the target that gives you the highest opportunity for success. Maybe you should re-think that strategy if you don't want people calling you opportunistic, and then treating you like an opportunistic alliance who they want to punish for hitting the 'easy' target.
[/quote]

Maximum damage to a threat facing little pressure. Efficiency. Success.

[Coloradia]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1297886118' post='2635842']
Oh yes, by all means we should pay LoSS to exit a war they are losing.

[b]No, that just stupid. Like most of the posts from your AA.[/b]

LoSS being irrationally stubborn is not anybodies problem but their own. The war is already lost for them, trying to martyr themselves won't change that. If they want to refuse white peace that is seriously and completely their issue.

Oh oh, but hey, guess who's not going to get offered white peace? Go on guess!
[/quote]
I can't tell whether you are acting or really are this sad...

Again, LoSS wasn't looking to get out at all until TIO had peace. Terms didn't matter. Where you get this idea LoSS wanted to be paid off I have on idea. Come back with something befitting an IQ over 70 please. You're giving me a headache.

As for the bolded part, check my AA again, I'm not in CSN, or GoD forbid your own alliance.

Edited February 16, 2011 by The Great One

[Supa_Troop3r]

[quote name='EViL0nE' timestamp='1297873947' post='2635710']
I'm confused. If there was no offer of white peace what did they decline, exactly?
[/quote]
Sorry I did word that wrong a bit, I was rushed, nuking people and all.

LoSS was in group talks, dealing with getting their allies getting peaced out.
It was then mentioned to LoSS, that they should also peace out.
LoSS stated they would not leave until all of their allies left.
All of their allies havn't left.
They asked DT to lend a hand on Legacy.
So we did.


Opportunistic and evil, I know. Lending a hand the new form of tech raiding.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Supa_Troop3r

[Haflinger]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1297885584' post='2635835']You don't take heat off of your allies by taking the target that gives you the highest opportunity for success.[/quote]
Actually, yes, you do. If by "success" you mean "winning the war," then by launching a successful war against someone making war on your ally you do take heat off of your ally.

Losing your war doesn't help as much. This is pretty obvious.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='AuiNur' timestamp='1297885348' post='2635831']
Can we get an official csn response on some of this?
[/quote]

I think that occured awhile ago when the leadership of CSN collectively bent over and inserted their heads up each others posteriors with a little greasing from ol xiph

Edited February 16, 2011 by chefjoe

[commander thrawn]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1297887022' post='2635855']
Actually, yes, you do. If by "success" you mean "winning the war," then by launching a successful war against someone making war on your ally you do take heat off of your ally.

Losing your war doesn't help as much. This is pretty obvious.
[/quote]

^This

DT were not being opportunistic, they attacked Legacy (an alliance larger than DT) because they were the toughest opponent that LoSS was facing. LoSS was involved in peace talks, but they were no where near peace because their allies were not going to get peace. Honorable alliance don't ditch their allies to get white peace. Since LoSS was still working on getting their friends white peace they needed help so they requested help from DT.

But seriously some of you guys need to think before you speak, your opinions on things change every war and you contradict yourselves even in this thread.

[MaGneT]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1297885584' post='2635835']
Err, maybe for you guys sure, but you don't win coalition wars by cherry-picking targets like you did here. You don't take heat off of your allies by taking the target that gives you the highest opportunity for success. Maybe you should re-think that strategy if you don't want people calling you opportunistic, and then treating you like an opportunistic alliance who they want to punish for hitting the 'easy' target.
[/quote]
Well you clearly are unaware of how to properly conduct a war. As someone with some years of war organization under my belt, you go where your ally is having the most trouble. Beyond the fact that Legacy is an alliance with a higher aNS than CSN, they are also infinitely more competent. LoSS needed us there. We also match up with them well. That's called having an opportunity for success both in our own military battles and in taking the pressure off of our ally.

Can I inquire as to what your credentials are in war organization, though? You seem to think you know quite a bit.

[Goldie]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1297887679' post='2635866']
Well you clearly are unaware of how to properly conduct a war. As someone with some years of war organization under my belt, you go where your ally is having the most trouble. Beyond the fact that Legacy is an alliance with a higher aNS than CSN, they are also infinitely more competent. LoSS needed us there. We also match up with them well. That's called having an opportunity for success both in our own military battles and in taking the pressure off of our ally.

Can I inquire as to what your credentials are in war organization, though? You seem to think you know quite a bit.
[/quote]

I run the military for the alliance kicking the snot out of your buddies.

Your 'years of war organization' obviously have not led to many successes it appears. Years of experience at losing and accepting losing must make you very good at losing.

[sammykhalifa]

[quote name='raasaa' timestamp='1297882064' post='2635787']
So, based on what you just said.....why is DT being punished for something LoSS did/didnt do ???
[/quote]

No, sorry, I was being unclear (and going off on a tangent). I'm making no judgment on the situation with the alliance that attacked mine one way or the other here. I have no ill will personally against either of our opponents, and I'm not in some scheme to launch a counterargument. Just idle speculation.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1297882199' post='2635791']
Again, where is this proof that LoSS or even TIO knew peace for TIO would be a week away? I would wager a bet that if LoSS knew that TIO was going to achieve white peace a week later, they would not have asked DT to come in. So i am guessing that no one had any actual definitive timeframe as to when TIO was going to achieve peace, least of all LoSS. This means that peace for TIO could have been a week later or a month later for all anyone, at the time DT was asked to help, knew.

It appears the new argument against DT is that peace for TIO was known ahead of time and therefore DT was never needed. Again, i am going to wager that this is yet another fallacy on the part of those defending CSN as most of the time, peace is only known a day ahead of time at most. which means knowing a full week ahead of the peace is damn near impossible.
[/quote]


Of course nobody KNOWS when the peace is going to happen specifically, any time. I wasn't involved in the talks personally, but I do kinda have a stake in this so I have been following things pretty closely. More and more fronts were closing by the day. It was pretty easy to see how things were going and realize that it was going to get there rather quickly barring complication (IMO). Dragging more allies into a fight when your stated goal is to get your allies out of the fight seems pretty counter-intuitive.

I love though that--depending on who you listen to--Legacy is either an insignificant and helpless tech-raid target or some sort of Unstoppable Death Machine.

[MaGneT]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1297887921' post='2635868']
I run the military for the alliance kicking the snot out of your buddies.

Your 'years of war organization' obviously have not led to many successes it appears. Years of experience at losing and accepting losing must make you very good at losing.
[/quote]
Firstly, I'm not sure who my buddies are that you are referring to. If you mean Pacifica, the alliance that I am in has no treaty nor do I have any love for that alliance. And if you're referring to how VE is riding the coattails of bigger and better alliances to victory, then sure, keep convincing yourself about how great you are.

That being said, you clearly have no idea who I am nor what I have been a part of. I see no purpose in arguing with you about my own credentials, so we ought to return to the topic at hand.

Let's just say, theoretically, that DT decided to attack Legacy, which we'll pretend is an alliance of 40 members and an average NS of 40,000. They're an easy target for us in this alternate universe. Does that warrant extortion in your eyes?

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='The Great One' timestamp='1297886474' post='2635847']
I can't tell whether you are acting or really are this sad...

Again, LoSS wasn't looking to get out at all until TIO had peace. Terms didn't matter. Where you get this idea LoSS wanted to be paid off I have on idea. Come back with something befitting an IQ over 70 please. You're giving me a headache.

As for the bolded part, check my AA again, I'm not in CSN, or GoD forbid your own alliance.
[/quote]

You people aren't nearly as clever as you think you are.

I know you think you are witty, but trust me, the rest of us just point and laugh.

[BamaBuc]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1297885584' post='2635835']
Err, maybe for you guys sure, but you don't win coalition wars by cherry-picking targets like you did here. You don't take heat off of your allies by taking the target that gives you the highest opportunity for success. Maybe you should re-think that strategy if you don't want people calling you opportunistic, and then treating you like an opportunistic alliance who they want to punish for hitting the 'easy' target.
[/quote]
Please read the thread. They were specifically asked to attack Legacy.

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1297886118' post='2635842']
No, that just stupid.
[/quote]
Oh dear.

-Bama

[Goldie]

[quote name='MaGneT' timestamp='1297888274' post='2635873']
Firstly, I'm not sure who my buddies are that you are referring to. If you mean Pacifica, the alliance that I am in has no treaty nor do I have any love for that alliance. And if you're referring to how VE is riding the coattails of bigger and better alliances to victory, then sure, keep convincing yourself about how great you are.

That being said, you clearly have no idea who I am nor what I have been a part of. I see no purpose in arguing with you about my own credentials, so we ought to return to the topic at hand.

Let's just say, theoretically, that DT decided to attack Legacy, which we'll pretend is an alliance of 40 members and an average NS of 40,000. They're an easy target for us in this alternate universe. Does that warrant extortion in your eyes?
[/quote]

You may have 'credentials' but you lack 'math skills', in that VE has fought more wars in this conflict than any alliance on either side, and is fighting alongside no one bigger. But if we're riding FOK/iFOK/PC's coattails, I'd be honored, because those are some pretty badass alliances to be tailing behind.

It is my opinion that how wars end is solely of the business between the parties. Would I be pushing reps on DT right now? No, probably not, but that CSN/Legacy are doesn't take anything away from them as alliances. They have every right to ask for what they think is fair, just as you have every right to not accept them.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1297888430' post='2635875']
You people aren't nearly as clever as you think you are.

I know you think you are witty, but trust me, the rest of us just point and laugh.
[/quote]

Well what do ya know!

We DO have common ground, I generally do the same but the finger is pointed the other way


Edit- spelling

Edited February 16, 2011 by chefjoe

[Goldie]

[quote name='BamaBuc' timestamp='1297888665' post='2635877']
Please read the thread. They were specifically asked to attack Legacy.
[/quote]

The line I said wasn't quoting the OP, it was quoting a post in where someone in DT said something along the lines of 'always attack the easiest alliance'.

[Joseph Black]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1297875943' post='2635739']
could you please provide justification that DT was being opportunistic when we hit Legacy? you do realize DT only hit Legacy because they were the alliance hurting LoSS the most and that LoSS asked us to hit them? if LoSS had asked us to hit CSN, DT would have DoWed CSN. so please, i am failing to understand this whole "opportunistic" idea.

also Legacy was a former protectorate and now MDoAP partner of CSN.
[/quote]

I apologize for the misnomer that they are a protectorate, I've yet to see a screen shot (possible I've not read it) of LoSS specifically asking for DT to hit Legacy. However, without said information, I drew that conclusion based on that you didn't attack anyone else, you only attacked Legacy. Instead of defending LoSS against all aggression you specifically chose Legacy. For bad or good, I would call that being opportunistic, and not merly defending an ally, as a blanket Declaration of War would have done.

[EViL0nE]

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1297863391' post='2635597']
Ignoring for a moment that wF said repeatedly that it wasn't a surrender -- and please, that was the most poorly worded, amateurish OP I've seen in some time -- you also make a very good point.

However, I've accepted a surrender from [u]your[/u] alliance before, and it continues to give me warm, fuzzy feelings to this day. Every time your eight-year-old, tantrum-throwing, fantasy-spewing leader goes on a tirade about it I lean back, smile, and think of what was. You see, to this day, Xiphosis rages about the evils perpetrated upon his alliance by NoV in the Unjust War. In most of the conversations I've had with him over the past four years, he has brought it up in all but one or two.

Run home, child. The adults are trying to have a conversation.
[/quote]
Really? You accepted a surrender from my alliance? What was your role in that surrender, again?
With an attitude like that, it's no wonder [b]your[/b] alliance tucked its tail and surrendered to an alliance it was soundly beating at the mere mention of GOD joining your front.

[MaGneT]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1297888817' post='2635879']
You may have 'credentials' but you lack 'math skills', in that VE has fought more wars in this conflict than any alliance on either side, and is fighting alongside no one bigger. But if we're riding FOK/iFOK/PC's coattails, I'd be honored, because those are some pretty badass alliances to be tailing behind.

It is my opinion that how wars end is solely of the business between the parties. Would I be pushing reps on DT right now? No, probably not, but that [b]CSN/Legacy[/b] are doesn't take anything away from them as alliances. They have every right to ask for what they think is fair, just as you have every right to not accept them.
[/quote]
Sorry about the wrong numbers, I never bothered to check. I was just basing that on how I understood VE to have entered this war. But this is not the time nor place to discuss that. If I took anything away from an alliance that is giving more blood than any other, I do apologize, as I would never malign a group of tenacious fighters for fighting.

You have one major error here, that I bolded. It's not Legacy, not one bit. They have expressed several times that they just want white peace. The issue here is that CSN is feigning outrage about an attack on Legacy, which Legacy is not even remotely offended about. Given this, it's pretty obvious that CSN is either plain stupid or their motives are malicious.

[Coloradia]

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1297888430' post='2635875']
You people aren't nearly as clever as you think you are.

I know you think you are witty, but trust me, the rest of us just point and laugh.
[/quote]
Ad hominem I see. I take it that is your method of admitting defeat?

[mmansfield68]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1297840139' post='2635426']
Oh man, I forgot mansfield was in DT too. Infra huggers... oh god...

[img]http://g.epcdn.net/ups/d12/8994910236.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
Yeah, I've been terrorizing the Templar for quite some time now.

[img]http://happybunny.orbitearthstores.com/images/your%20ugly%20huge.jpg[/img]

[Roi Loup]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1297887921' post='2635868']
I run the military for the alliance kicking the snot out of your buddies.
[/quote]

ve? ve has yet to kick the snot out of anyone. if it werent for fok it would be the opposite

[AuiNur]

[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1297888945' post='2635884']
I apologize for the misnomer that they are a protectorate, I've yet to see a screen shot (possible I've not read it) of LoSS specifically asking for DT to hit Legacy. However, without said information, I drew that conclusion based on that you didn't attack anyone else, you only attacked Legacy. Instead of defending LoSS against all aggression you specifically chose Legacy. For bad or good, I would call that being opportunistic, and not merly defending an ally, as a blanket Declaration of War would have done.
[/quote]

Loss said it many times in this thread that they requested help with legacy. And fortunately we are not at the point where people tell full blown lies, I would hope. For now, it is apparently just the constant spinning of arguments.

We expected the counter from csn and we knew what we were doing. MDPs and ODPs after all, are still both [b]defense pact treaties[/b]. The only difference is the single word in front of them, and only a fool would think that neither contained honor nor friendship.