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Official Nordreich Foreign Affairs Dispatch


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[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1294273567' post='2564983']
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Zeppelin(?) may be the person who can fill you in. Our Kaiser is probably already in bed. (And if he isn't, he should be! tsk tsk tsk)
[/quote]
I already filled Craig in. And you know I only go to bed right before sunset. Last time I stayed up too long and the neigbours complained about the smoke.

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[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1294272897' post='2564960']
Let us be clear on this. This is not a witch hunt. Yes, Nordreich is acting upon information of an "off-world" nature, but the extent of our actions ends with this cancellation. And as stated in the OP, we wish all those not implicated in the evidence good luck and prosperity in whatever path they choose.
[/quote]


Well played, even though I am part of TGE, I dont see the hate between our alliances. I have friends in NoR and do like the alliance as a whole. I am glad to hear that this stops at the cancellation and will not escalade further into more troubles for both alliances.

Peace be to NoR & Long live TGE

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[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1294272897' post='2564960']
Let us be clear on this. This is not a witch hunt. Yes, Nordreich is acting upon information of an "off-world" nature, but the extent of our actions ends with this cancellation. And as stated in the OP, we wish all those not implicated in the evidence good luck and prosperity in whatever path they choose.
[/quote]


Could you please send me this "evidence" so that it can be properly dealt with? Thanks.

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[quote name='ColonelTom' timestamp='1294274398' post='2565009']
Could you please send me this "evidence" so that it can be properly dealt with? Thanks.
[/quote]
You need to rethink how you deal with this situation. Evidence? You can't seriously be considering take action against your members beliefs. It's not a crime. Should they act as what they are being accused of against other rulers on planet bob then sure perhaps take action, but until then they are allowed their beliefs even if most of planet bob disagrees with them.

Edited by Fernando12
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[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1294274942' post='2565026']
You need to rethink how you deal with this situation. Evidence? You can't seriously be considering take action against your members beliefs. It's not a crime. Should they act as what they are being accused of against other rulers on planet bob then sure perhaps take action, but until then they are allowed their beliefs even if most of planet bob disagrees with them.
[/quote]

I don't think Tom would do anything unfair towards his members, but rather wants to see what exactly is being charged against TKoI (and I would gather from the quotations around evidence that he is not wholly convinced as to their validity, and I cannot blame him for that).

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[quote name='Mikeyrox' timestamp='1294275301' post='2565039']
I don't think Tom would do anything unfair towards his members, but rather wants to see what exactly is being charged against TKoI (and I would gather from the quotations around evidence that he is not wholly convinced as to their validity, and I cannot blame him for that).
[/quote]
My point is rulers beliefs in other realms is just that. If rulers have applied those beliefs towards other rulers be it in their own alliance or other alliances or the none AA nations then action should be taken. At no point in this OP has anyone stated that is the case, so Tom should just basically do nothing if his members haven't done anything HERE on planet bob to warrant having action taken against them.

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[quote name='Karl Peters' timestamp='1294275634' post='2565046']
[IMG]http://i51.tinypic.com/2dqt3l3.jpg[/IMG]

There ya go. It wasn't months it was days!
[/quote]

Am I to understand that TGE's official position is now:

"We had this information for months, but we didn't know we had it!"

Really?

Truly, your alliance is the gift that keeps on giving.

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[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1294275717' post='2565048']
My point is rulers beliefs in other realms is just that. If rulers have applied those beliefs towards other rulers be it in their own alliance or other alliances or the none AA nations then action should be taken. At no point in this OP has anyone stated that is the case, so Tom should just basically do nothing if his members haven't done anything HERE on planet bob to warrant having action taken against them.
[/quote]

My point, though, which I failed to spell out correctly (my fault) in the last post, is that some of this supposed evidence spells out more than just having racist/nazi views, but that they tried to recruit ther TKoI members into nazi sites.

I dont believe this myself, and from the "log" shown so far, it looks only as if someone may have nazi views in TKoI. As far as I am concerned, that is no crime, and anybody who does consider simply holding an offensive view a crime worthy of IC action should feel ashamed of themselves to the highest degree. By saying that members should be expelled simply because of their beliefs, you are essentially denying the right to freedom of thought or speech. Believe me, I am no defender of racism or nazism, I have family members who have been touched by their evils, but I would sooner have my nation burn for all eternity than let anyone tell me that I had to punish people for what they believe in. So shame TGE, until we see more solid proof that they acted on their convictions and targeted people, or attempted to jam their beliefs down others throats, what you have demanded seems pretty low.

edited for grammar, which is probably still bad :P

Edited by Mikeyrox
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[quote name='Nemhauser' timestamp='1294270246' post='2564892']
I think your government knows who gave us the logs, he's even gov himself.

And yes, I agree. Without all the stuff that happened in the past year, NoR and TGE could've gotten closer together. In fact, it did when Martens and K-Fred settled their old fued. But then other stuff happened and, well, everything went downhill from there. My stance on TGE has gone from [i]neutral/moving towards slightly positive[/i] to [i]strongly dislike[/i] during my period as Reichskaiser. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that some members from TGE that visit our boards are friendly in our faces, but that those same individuals have said to others to avoid Nordreich because we're a bunch of... you know.
[/quote]
Believe me when I say that I express my deepest disgust with this fiasco and the way it was handled. From my understanding, this was to be solved weeks ago by one person, and instead, it was put off or forgotten about until it was too late. I'd like to say that this sort of thing won't happen again, and I mean to support and secure the maintenance of this promise, but with the majority of Planet Bob shaking their heads or their fists at us, it would seem like an empty sentiment. Still, Nem, I'd like to publicly apologize, on behalf of anyone and everyone mixed up in this scandal; though I may not be directly involved, I do feel that I should take responsibility for what has happened, to be the bigger man in this situation. I'm not sure what we can do to make it up to you, as the last affair was pretty bad in of itself (and war is not a good option, contrary to the military nature of NoR). Please feel free to contact me on IRC and such, and perhaps a diplomatic solution can be reached, without having to resort to conflict.

[quote]Buddy, let me stop you here. I hope you take these words seriously. When you come back and have no idea what's going on. It's better not to comment about the situation as you will usually put your foot into your mouth. I know you don't want to have TGE stand all alone in this but, you need to find out what's going on first. I hope you take that advise seriously.[/quote]
While I would normally agree with you, I now have a much greater grasp of the situation, and am able to address it accordingly. It's never good to go blindly into a debate that you know nothing about, but after a while of being there, you pick up on what's going on, and you're able to join in flawlessly. However, I don't intend on pulling off this sort of thing in the future, so thanks for the advice.


To be honest, I'm still baffled how we managed to screw this up...

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[quote name='Karl Peters' timestamp='1294275634' post='2565046']
[img]http://i51.tinypic.com/2dqt3l3.jpg[/img]

There ya go. It wasn't months it was days!
[/quote]


This does constitute proof yet, it just shows that there was a post in your forums about the topic. . And I can't tell the link that supposedly contains the proof from the picture. Send me the link to the proof via PM please.

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[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1294276001' post='2565059']
Am I to understand that TGE's official position is now:

"We had this information for months, but we didn't know we had it!"

Really?

Truly, your alliance is the gift that keeps on giving.
[/quote]

No actually it was all me. That was the date when I informed noR and TGE gov`t about them.

Now most of you may be familiar with idling, well that is what I do a lot with my IRC. The vast majority of these logs were done when I was not around. I only remembered one instance where they were talking about the actual recruitment (which was like a month or so before they cancelled on us) so when TKoI cancelled on TGE I set out to find that so NoR knew about them. I had plans to tell TGE soon as well I had just not been as active to go on a full scale investigation like that beforehand. So as I am looking for that 1 log I come across all the other gems that one can find in the logs. I admit I should have acted faster wih informing TGE and NoR I truly apologize for not spying on your FA so I could have told you beforehand about them, for some reason you won`t believe me when I say I had no idea you were gonig to sign with TKoI and tbh it wasn`t my place to ask

So for Kaiser Martens who is blaming all of TGE I must apologize to him. It was not all of TGE, it was me. I found the logs, I had them for the months, no one else knew about them. Yes the threat was by me too :lol1: I told Zepplin that I would make these logs public knowledge eventually but I wanted to give NoR time to cancel after he comes back at me saying they are taking Mussolini`s word for it and the logs are fake and since I didn`t take screen shots of the actual logs I am SOL (not in those exact words obviously).

Nemenhauser you knew it was all me as well but oh well if that`s how you like to play it.

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[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1294276405' post='2565071']
/me pounds desk

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh God. Stop it. Please. You're killing me.
[/quote]
Really, zog, was that necessary? :P A little humility is good for the soul :)


Also, should these logs be posted publicly, or should they be kept under wraps? Since NoR has them, I do believe that they should be the ones to decide.

Edited by Adam Suttler
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[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1294276952' post='2565094']
I just wanted to let everyone know that TKoI has a military treaty with IAA. It was carried over from the IR merger so TKoI is not a raiding buffet.
[/quote]

You need to say that with a flag.

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[quote name='Nemhauser' timestamp='1294276922' post='2565091']
Just how many fall-guys does TGE have? They must be running out by now.
[/quote]

One, I'm not even in TGE. Look at the image again. And look at my nation to see what my AA is. Fall guys so far I have counted 1, and he already told you what he did.

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[quote name='Karl Peters' timestamp='1294277259' post='2565105']
One, I'm not even in TGE. Look at the image again. And look at my nation to see what my AA is. Fall guys so far I have counted 1, and he already told you what he did.
[/quote]
My reply wasn't aimed at you, but to the guy that's going all "It was me, it was all me, they knew nothing about it!"

We've encountered TGE fall-guys before over the past 1,5 years.

Edited by Nemhauser
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[quote name='Nemhauser' timestamp='1294277385' post='2565109']
My reply wasn't aimed at you, but to the guy that's going all "It was me, it was all me, they knew nothing about it!"

We've encountered TGE fall-guys before over the past 1,5 years.
[/quote]

You are true about that. And it is time that TGE should grow a set of balls and change their ways! *wink wink*

Edited by Karl Peters
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[quote name='Karl Peters' timestamp='1294277641' post='2565116']
You are true about that. And it is time that TGE should grow a set of balls and change their ways! *wink wink*
[/quote]
That's what I've been saying for a long time. TGE is an alliance with potential, but how it's currently run... well...

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[quote name='Leopold von Habsburg' timestamp='1294276590' post='2565078']
Now most of you may be familiar with idling, well that is what I do a lot with my IRC. The vast majority of these logs were done when I was not around. I only remembered one instance where they were talking about the actual recruitment (which was like a month or so before they cancelled on us) so when TKoI cancelled on TGE I set out to find that so NoR knew about them.[/quote]
So just to be clear. The line you're feeding us is that once tKoI cancelled on you, you searched back in your mass of logs to hunt down a conversation you didn't knew happened. How convenient that you could track down so much evidence on a subject you had no knowledge of. Ya, that makes sense.

[quote]Nemenhauser you knew it was all me as well but oh well if that`s how you like to play it.
[/quote]
You are a government member of TGE and as such represent the alliance as a whole.

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1294276952' post='2565094']
I just wanted to let everyone know that TKoI has a military treaty with IAA. It was carried over from the IR merger so TKoI is not a raiding buffet.
[/quote]
I do appreciate you guys coming in and making that clear for everyone. We had no intent with this announcement to see tKoI raided into oblivion.

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[quote name='Voodoo Nova' timestamp='1294263314' post='2564695']
TGE once again shows why Nordreich is the better man in their silly feud.
[/quote]

And yet, what a silly silly feud it truly is. Nonetheless, you did the right thing Nordreich, and I commend you for it.

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