Cataduanes Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 [quote name='ImperialCubanacan' timestamp='1294822460' post='2573012'] After reading page 12, and having stayed off this crappy forum for 3 days[/quote] Hey! some of us like this forum [quote name='ImperialCubanacan' timestamp='1294822460' post='2573012'] So, in conclusion, I don't care what you or any other non-ally of Nordreich thinks. You are irrelevant to me. Good day sir. [/quote] irrelevant enough to warrant more than one paragraph?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka the Great Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 [quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1294817802' post='2572963'] If you think this little 'crisis' was met with universal approval then I must stress this is not the case. Please do not presume that we are (collectively) so blind to not see what is going on....[/quote] How about the last time? Or the time before that? Or the time before that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) Well I can only comment for a timeframe that i have been in INT, this ''crisis''' has given plenty of fuel for discussion. Edited January 12, 2011 by Cataduanes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 [quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1294817802' post='2572963']If you think this little 'crisis' was met with universal approval then I must stress this is not the case. Please do not presume that we are (collectively) so blind to not see what is going on, but rightly or wrongly both FOK and ourselves have a responsibility to TGE to support them in what is a difficult time for their alliance. [/quote] As much as I can appreciate someone defending an ally, the fact that you are willing to do it "wrongly" is rather disappointing. It's like you know what's up, but can't be bothered. How does that make you any better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wu Tang Clan Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 [quote name='ImperialCubanacan' timestamp='1294822460' post='2573012'] So, in conclusion, I don't care what you or any other non-ally of Nordreich thinks. You are irrelevant to me. Good day sir. [/quote] But I LOVE YOU! Anyways, this was fun, I recommend it happening again some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botha Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 [quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1294849346' post='2573169']Well I can only comment for a timeframe that i have been in INT, this ''crisis''' has given plenty of fuel for discussion.[/quote] [color="#000080"]Personally, from my own observations, I think FOK are way more 'tolerant' of TGE's antics than INT - simply because it becomes a convenient thorn in NoR's hide. But I know you well enough (and respect you well enough) via other mutual online games we play to know that if discussion of TGE did come up in INT, that you yourself would view the on-going TGE vs NoR issue with an open and clear mind. But not sure what your comrades think. I for one wish there wasn't such a level of mistrust between FOK and NoR, but then again I wasn't around in Nordland when the blood started to boil in regards to FOK.[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iosif Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1294786830' post='2572336'] Which calls to question why FOK would support such behavior, either actively or tacitly. [/quote] Beats me. Every time I remember I'm indirectly allied to TGE and thus indirectly allowing their ongoing existence, I die a little bit inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashoka the Great Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 [quote name='Botha' timestamp='1294853807' post='2573204']....I wasn't around in Nordland when the blood started to boil in regards to FOK.[/quote] That's probably because it hasn't happened. In fact.... In the last major conflict, we were on the same side and shared many of the same targets. From what I've heard (from [u]both[/u] sides) our members cooperated quite well, and each side came away impressed with the other. I'm not privy to any current behind-the-scenes discussions between NoR and FOK -- I don't even know if/when they have taken place -- but I would imagine that the fact that there's no language barrier between FOK and Nordreich's Kaiser is probably a big help in terms of avoiding misunderstandings. tl;dr - We have nothing against FOK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) [quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1294853266' post='2573198'] As much as I can appreciate someone defending an ally, the fact that you are willing to do it "wrongly" is rather disappointing. It's like you know what's up, but can't be bothered. How does that make you any better? [/quote] Disappointing for you perhaps but responsibilities are responsibilities, being personally bothered has nothing to do with the bigger picture as the whims of the individual are always ultimately subsumed into the general direction taken by ones alliance. [quote name='Botha' timestamp='1294853807' post='2573204'] [color="#000080"]Personally, from my own observations, I think FOK are way more 'tolerant' of TGE's antics than INT - simply because it becomes a convenient thorn in NoR's hide. But I know you well enough (and respect you well enough) via other mutual online games we play to know that if discussion of TGE did come up in INT, that you yourself would view the on-going TGE vs NoR issue with an open and clear mind. But not sure what your comrades think.[/color] [/quote] Thx Botha , I truly hope this fiasco will be the last such incident between TGE and Nordreich. Edited January 12, 2011 by Cataduanes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 The only flaw with your logic is that TGE isn't your responsibility. They're not a child that you gave birth to and have to nurture. They're just a child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Nikanor Posted January 12, 2011 Report Share Posted January 12, 2011 [quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1294873314' post='2573487'] The only flaw with your logic is that TGE isn't your responsibility. They're not a child that you gave birth to and have to nurture. They're just a child. [/quote] I think it's more the responsibility of honoring a treaty he's referencing. Nothing wrong with honoring a treaty. But there is something wrong with not recognizing whether or not a treaty will hurt you more than help you in the end. However, that is NOT AT ALL my call to consider, that is up to the people in The International. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 [quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1294873314' post='2573487'] The only flaw with your logic is that TGE isn't your responsibility. They're not a child that you gave birth to and have to nurture. They're just a child. [/quote] So very true....you got me there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialCubanacan Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 [quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1294853662' post='2573203'] But I LOVE YOU! Anyways, this was fun, I recommend it happening again some time. [/quote] I retract that statement for the benefit of the MHA. Because even my heart melts for MHA. (P.S., Anysound is epic) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Striderwanabe Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1294865254' post='2573369']Disappointing for you perhaps but responsibilities are responsibilities[/quote] Stop right there. It has already been said a bit, but let me repeat it with some elaboration. You are not "responsible" for your allies (in the sense of taking care of them), nor should you be responsible for protecting them whenever they screw up and need defending because they can't do it for themselves. If your agreement was not an agreement between two equal parties, than I would think differently, and in that situation INT might be entitled to handling most if not all of the talking for TGE. But the fact of the matter is you are having to cover for an ally who cannot take care of themselves, and this means that they are dead weight. Moreover, has it not even occurred to anyone in your alliance that this current government of TGE is NOT the same alliance with which you signed your treaty? Your leader cannot even be sure as to who is the Head of State for his ally: this is a problem. What needs to happen before the International diplomatic team realizes not only that The German Empire is wholly incapable of upholding their end of the agreement, but also that you quite possibly have no idea who would be responsible for bringing that support to bear? I would expect INT to think long and hard about their "obligation" to TGE and the amount of benefit they are truly reaping by maintaining this tie. EDIT: Slight wording change Edited January 13, 2011 by Striderwanabe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataduanes Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Striderwanabe' timestamp='1294899289' post='2573847'] Stop right there. It has already been said a bit, but let me repeat it with some elaboration. You are not "responsible" for your allies (in the sense of taking care of them), nor should you be responsible for protecting them whenever they screw up and need defending because they can't do it for themselves. If your agreement was not an agreement between two equal parties, than I would think differently, and in that situation INT might be entitled to handling most if not all of the talking for TGE. But the fact of the matter is you are having to cover for an ally who cannot take care of themselves, and this means that they are dead weight. Moreover, has it not even occurred to anyone in your alliance that this current government of TGE is NOT the same alliance with which you signed your treaty? Your leader cannot even be sure as to who is the Head of State for his ally: this is a problem. What needs to happen before the International diplomatic team realizes not only that The German Empire is wholly incapable of upholding their end of the agreement, but also that you quite possibly have no idea who would be responsible for bringing that support to bear? I would expect INT to think long and hard about their "obligation" to TGE and the amount of benefit they are truly reaping by maintaining this tie. EDIT: Slight wording change [/quote] I am pretty sure Hizzy covered this in his brief yet succint reply to me, not sure your elaboration makes the point anymore clearer but hey who am I to deny you your two cents. I would expect you to understand that when an ally screws up it is usually a good thing to protect said ally from further harm (whether self inflicted or not). whatever the future of the treaty between INT and TGE covering TGE's ass at this point of time is the right course of action no matter your opinion on whether they are ''dead weight'' or not. All this gnashing of teeth is beginning to look like you guys are pissed because FOK and ourselves ensure that Nordreich cannot strike directly at TGE without repercussion...of course I could be guilty of looking at this all wrong but yeah And the opening of your second paragraph is pretty funny really, TGE may have different leaders in places but the contact between sections of our respective governments remains as strong as it did in the past. I am not sure if your asserting that alliances should rip up treaties once the faces in govt change or not?? (which on principle is pretty silly). Alas the fact that I have stated earlier in this thread that the ''crisis'' has engendered internal discussion within INT should be a pretty big indicator that the ''the International diplomatic team'' has taken notice and that long hard thoughts have already been in the offing, just as my stated fact that not everyone on this side of the fence is entirely happy with what has happened. I totally agree that TGE $%&@ed up and yes your not happy with their ''apology'' but one irrevocable fact right about now is that TGE remains tied to FOK and ourselves and no amount of pissing and moaning on your (collective) part will change this fact, and you can bet your bottom dollar that FOK and ourselves will continue to live up to our responsibilities as allies to TGE until such day as the relevant treaties are no longer considered viable. EDIT: Tweaked the wording. Edited January 13, 2011 by Cataduanes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Actually I thought you were being sarcastic when you agreed with what I said. It really puts a damper on the banter when someone says that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wu Tang Clan Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 [quote name='ImperialCubanacan' timestamp='1294894690' post='2573792'] I retract that statement for the benefit of the MHA. Because even my heart melts for MHA. (P.S., Anysound is epic) [/quote] I'm not in MHA. I just like their little icon thingy. And I got made fun of for wearing the ODN one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImperialCubanacan Posted January 15, 2011 Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Wu Tang Clan' timestamp='1295023938' post='2575160'] I'm not in MHA. I just like their little icon thingy. And I got made fun of for wearing the ODN one... [/quote] Either way, I love MHA. lol. And you're in Exodus? Nice. Edited January 15, 2011 by ImperialCubanacan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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