A Sad GOONS Announcement

[daggarz]

Sardonic,
Why does this letter come across as you being so hurt by Xiph's actions?
Its a large step sideways from the hate filled person I am so familiar with.
Do you actually have feelings?

[Leigon]

I didn't say I want a NPO treaty. I just tried to illustrate how absurd it is to say we're blocking the whole ex-hegemony, when TOP is simply the last alliance we want to be tied to. Even further down the list than NPO. How that makes me a Pacifica lover is beyond me.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Mixoux' timestamp='1293401917' post='2554686']
Wow, it really [i]is[/i] easy to lead people astray. I see why the VEto ordeal is still being believed even now.
[/quote]
Something about the relative value of actions and words. We'll certainly see where this goes. In any case, this is a bizarre cancellation, but GOD can act however they wish. Good show to all involved on the other side of this spat, however.

[Midkn1ght]

[quote name='Leigon' timestamp='1293411576' post='2554782']
I didn't say I want a NPO treaty. I just tried to illustrate how absurd it is to say we're blocking the whole ex-hegemony, when TOP is simply the last alliance we want to be tied to. Even further down the list than NPO. How that makes me a Pacifica lover is beyond me.
[/quote]

C'mon man, you're making us look bad, you're supposed to claim we want to see the Orders still burn and stuff, since Xiph is so crazy and vindictive... and yet at the same time argue that we're buddies with them.

[Locke]

[quote name='Leigon' timestamp='1293411576' post='2554782']
I didn't say I want a NPO treaty. I just tried to illustrate how absurd it is to say we're blocking the whole ex-hegemony, when TOP is simply the last alliance we want to be tied to. Even further down the list than NPO. How that makes me a Pacifica lover is beyond me.
[/quote]
If you don't hate Pacifica more than everyone else in the world, you're not in the "in" crowd anymore.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='Leigon' timestamp='1293411576' post='2554782']
I didn't say I want a NPO treaty. I just tried to illustrate how absurd it is to say we're blocking the whole ex-hegemony, when TOP is simply the last alliance we want to be tied to. Even further down the list than NPO. How that makes me a Pacifica lover is beyond me.
[/quote]
That's pretty astonishing. NPO would jump at the opportunity to stab you in the back and get revenge for Karma.

TOP? You're barely on their radar. And it's quite ridiculous to argue that some of the mistakes they made in Karma come even close to trumping all the things that NPO did before Karma.

[raasaa]

[quote name='Mixoux' timestamp='1293401917' post='2554686']
Wow, it really [i]is[/i] easy to lead people astray. I see why the VEto ordeal is still being believed even now.
[/quote]
VEto is still being believed with a small twist....

GOD forced VE to use their mighty VEto and keep MK out of PB....

[Ogedei Khan]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1293363666' post='2554311']
I'm not in the habit of revealing my sources. Sorry, but no.
[/quote]

You don't have to reveal your sources. The simple fact is it's beyond inconceivable that what you're saying is true. Why you continue to stick to this weird claim is beyond me.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Ogedei Khan' timestamp='1293429550' post='2555062']
You don't have to reveal your sources. The simple fact is it's beyond inconceivable that what you're saying is true. Why you continue to stick to this weird claim is beyond me.
[/quote]
Because the counterargument is that IRON attacked C&G because it was a terrific strategic move that won the war.

Oh wait.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1293431093' post='2555082']
Because the counterargument is that IRON attacked C&G because it was a terrific strategic move that won the war.

Oh wait.
[/quote]
No it isn't. On top of which, people have done plenty of things that didn't work while attempting to succeed. Just because it turned out to be a terrible idea doesn't prove that the people who came up with it didn't think it was an amazing idea. If you think that is the counter argument, then it means the argument you are making is that any time someone screws up they have an ulterior motive for their actions and it is impossible to just make mistakes.

Actually, it explains a lot if you really think that.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1293431717' post='2555086']
No it isn't. On top of which, people have done plenty of things that didn't work while attempting to succeed. Just because it turned out to be a terrible idea doesn't prove that the people who came up with it didn't think it was an amazing idea. If you think that is the counter argument, then it means the argument you are making is that any time someone screws up they have an ulterior motive for their actions and it is impossible to just make mistakes.

[b]Actually, it explains a lot if you really think that.[/b]
[/quote]

It really does actually.

[NoFish]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1293419360' post='2554927']
That's pretty astonishing. NPO would jump at the opportunity to stab you in the back and get revenge for Karma.

TOP? You're barely on their radar. And it's quite ridiculous to argue that some of the mistakes they made in Karma come even close to trumping all the things that NPO did before Karma.
[/quote]
TO be fair, it's a pretty hard call between being tied to NPO or TOP. It's like, you would rather be dumped in a tub of boiling water or have all of your limbs cut off with a rusty spoon? You can make [i]really[/i] convincing arguments against either one. Of course, at least the guys in TOP who hated us the most, like SomeGuy and Crymson, aren't in charge any more. That's probably a few more points for them. Maybe it'd make it more like having all of your limbs cut off but one.

Edited December 27, 2010 by NoFish

[General Scipio]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1293431093' post='2555082']
Because the counterargument is that IRON attacked C&G because it was a terrific strategic move that won the war.

Oh wait.
[/quote]
You have people from RnR, IRON, and TOP members that planned the war, all of whom are saying that the reason was strategic, none of whom have a reason to lie. Yet for some reason you believe that your sources retarded opinion is the correct one?

Edited December 27, 2010 by General Scipio

[Azaghul]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1293432018' post='2555091']
TO be fair, it's a pretty hard call between being tied to NPO or TOP. It's like, you would rather be dumped in a tub of boiling water or have all of your limbs cut off with a rusty spoon? You can make [i]really[/i] convincing arguments against either one. Of course, at least the guys in TOP who hated us the most, like SomeGuy and Crymson, aren't in charge any more. That's probably a few more points for them. Maybe it'd make it more like having all of your limbs cut off but one.
[/quote]
I'm still waiting to hear anything credible that TOP has done that makes it even [i]close[/i] to NPO.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1293432480' post='2555095']
I'm still waiting to hear anything credible that TOP has done that makes it even [i]close[/i] to NPO.
[/quote]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I think you would have to make it more about the alliances as allies, and not based on their morality.

[Ardus]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1293432018' post='2555091']
TO be fair, it's a pretty hard call between being tied to NPO or TOP. It's like, you would rather be dumped in a tub of boiling water or have all of your limbs cut off with a rusty spoon? You can make [i]really[/i] convincing arguments against either one. Of course, at least the guys in TOP who hated us the most, like [b]SomeGuy[/b] and Crymson, aren't in charge any more. That's probably a few more points for them. Maybe it'd make it more like having all of your limbs cut off but one.
[/quote]
Yeah, now he's just MK Enclave. Then again, so am I.

We're letting pretty much anybody command FA nowadays.

[Aurion]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1293432018' post='2555091']
TO be fair, it's a pretty hard call between being tied to NPO or TOP. It's like, you would rather be dumped in a tub of boiling water or have all of your limbs cut off with a rusty spoon? You can make [i]really[/i] convincing arguments against either one. Of course, at least the guys in TOP who hated us the most, like SomeGuy and Crymson, aren't in charge any more. That's probably a few more points for them. Maybe it'd make it more like having all of your limbs cut off but one.
[/quote]

That's a little over the top, Fishy.

No pun intended.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1293432676' post='2555096']
I can't speak for anyone else, but I think you would have to make it more about the alliances as allies, and not based on their morality.
[/quote]
Well the "alliance as allies" thing becomes less and less irrelevant as it becomes indirect. This isn't about GOD allying TOP, this is about GOD hating TOP so much that they get up in arms over an ally of an ally allying TOP. This isn't about GOD not wanting to be directly allied to TOP, this is about them hating TOP and wanting TOP to be on the opposite side in the next war.

[Aurion]

And yet it's somehow become a discussion of TOP and NPO's relative merits as treaty partners.

[NoFish]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1293432480' post='2555095']
I'm still waiting to hear anything credible that TOP has done that makes it even [i]close[/i] to NPO.
[/quote]
Honestly? Very little NPO did had much effect on me, directly, until they attacked OV. I don't actually hate them and I'm not sure I ever did - they were an enemy that needed to be taken down and that was that. The things TOP has done certainly haven't been worse from an abstract standpoint, but I have every reason to like them less personally.

I'm kinda curious how you guys justify being allied to them after all that WotC stuff, though. I suppose they just blamed NPO for everything?

[Aurion]

Also, given the choice, roll NPO and keep TOP at arm's length (in before do something about it).

Given no choice, TOP by a country mile. I'm sure someone who's been around longer will dredge up the full list of ex-allies that found themselves on the wrong end of an Initiative or Q/1v rolling.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Aurion

[KCToker]

[quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1293434758' post='2555121']
Also, given the choice, roll NPO and keep TOP at arm's length (in before do something about it).

Given no choice, TOP by a country mile. I'm sure someone who's been around longer will dredge up the full list of ex-allies that found themselves on the wrong end of an Initiative of Q/1v rolling.
[/quote]
Do something about it.

[Aurion]

[quote name='KCToker' timestamp='1293434787' post='2555122']
Do something about it.
[/quote]

That was supposed to be someone from NPO's line, I think.

[KCToker]

[quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1293435036' post='2555125']
That was supposed to be someone from NPO's line, I think.
[/quote]
Why do they get all the fun

[Aurion]

[quote name='KCToker' timestamp='1293435197' post='2555130']
Why do they get all the fun
[/quote]

I...honestly don't know.

Because I was talking about them and not you? I guess.