CN Alternate History

[SynthFG]

[quote name='Believland' timestamp='1292291186' post='2538994']
I actually change mine to:
The Hangout is formed
Ramirus was expelled/denied from Gre
[/quote]
Hangout, had almost forgotten about that, was never going to happen,
as for Ram being expelled/denied entry to Gre,
Gre would have fallen apart sometime in summer/autumn 2009 and what was left probably merged into TOP or UMB, certainly there would have been no last hurrah of the mashing of IRON's top end and in Bi-Polar, or the retardedness that came after, also it's unlikely that MHA would have entered that war so quickly after the pre-emptive

How about

Gre not running from Green after the signing of the Jungle thing, (War on green ??, GGA and 1V vs Gre, Q and Cit splitting months or years early)
or Gre moving to orange rather than aqua, and almost certainly merging with TOP within a year or so

Edited December 14, 2010 by SynthFG

[Monster]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1292312178' post='2539350']
Polar and \m/ ended the war right around when they went in. IRON never entered to defend NSO. And it was a trap all along by Polar. Had IRON simply continued to stay out the war would have been over pretty soon, I think.
[/quote]

I have a hard time believing this was the case as there were several entry points they could have taken. IRON didn't hit SF because they wanted a clearer shot at something else. I don't think everyone knew it'd be a pre-emption but LM was saying that he wasn't plunging into the "sf trap". I thought \m/ only agreed to end it because they were going in.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Antoine Roquentin

[General Scipio]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1292312178' post='2539350']
Polar and \m/ ended the war right around when they went in. IRON never entered to defend NSO. And it was a trap all along by Polar. Had IRON simply continued to stay out the war would have been over pretty soon, I think.
[/quote]
It would have been the same result. IRON+TOP go in against Fark and CnG hits them, Polar peaces out and TOP and people are still fighting. Even if Polar doesn't peace out the war outcome doesn't change. The war depended on NpO leading the SF front while TOP lead the CnG front, as everyone knew CnG was going to counter TOP. NpO would have lost that fight, and then TOP would have lost their front as well. The end would have been the same, just with everyone (except TOP) taking more damage.

[Monster]

That's what I thought the alternate scenario was as well. I don't think Polar would have had just cause to pull out and have the war continue in it though.

[wickedj]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1292287963' post='2538944']
NPO winning Karma isn't a good example, because they simply couldn't have with the numbers.

Something like Legion/ODN joining GW2 is a more fair example (and rather tired too). Maybe nothing would have happened, but it could have altered the war.
[/quote]
Not if you go back a year. Polar doesnt get a bomb dropped on them from big bother. the two orders stay tight up and through Karma war. theres alot of treaties that never happen and alot more that stay intact and they fight together against Karma. Maybe they have enough to atleast make it a little fairer

[Andre27]

Things which could have been interesting: Green Civil war never happened. GOONS moves away from NPO and engages VE together with \m/ and Genmay.

GGA actually comes to the rescue of VE with some of the other green alliances. NPO stays out. GGA gets an early wake up call not to depend on others too much.

With such events it is very possible that Karma would never have materialized.

[Caliph]

[quote name='Londo Mollari' timestamp='1292312178' post='2539350']
Polar and \m/ ended the war right around when they went in. IRON never entered to defend NSO. And it was a trap all along by Polar. Had IRON simply continued to stay out the war would have been over pretty soon, I think.
[/quote]
Any trap was the workings of Polar/Almighty Grub. \m/ fought the war, sure, but Grub was looking for one and he went to us because he knew we would give him one, especially given his conduct towards us.

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1292314479' post='2539372']
I have a hard time believing this was the case as there were several entry points they could have taken. IRON didn't hit SF because they wanted a clearer shot at something else. I don't think everyone knew it'd be a pre-emption but LM was saying that he wasn't plunging into the "sf trap". I thought \m/ only agreed to end it because they were going in.
[/quote]
\m/ agreed to end it that night because TOP/IRON and co hit C&G.
We would have ended the war a few days later but TOP and IRON decided to go in and presented a golden oppurtunity to give you all the war you all wanted, instead of the war we gave you.

[Prime minister Johns]

The one thing I often wonder about is what would of happened if I was not forced to reroll after the karma war.

[Uncle Fester]

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but if nukes were used in GW2/3. Might've changed things quite a bit.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Uncle Fester

[Andre27]

[quote name='Uncle Fester' timestamp='1292334928' post='2539460']
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but if nukes were used in GW2/3. Might've changed things quite a bit.
[/quote]

An argument used many times, but history also showed us that NPO could recover pretty fast.

[Lukapaka]

Legion and UPN band forces and shortly before an unprecedented update blitz against SG, every single one of their rulers deploys themselves into anarchy.

Planet Bob does one big

Edited December 14, 2010 by Lukapaka

[White Chocolate]

[quote name='Muddog' timestamp='1292312629' post='2539354']
Here is an interesting what if question, what if the alliance system that we have now never took shape and the color spheres were the bodies with which everyone owed their allegiance instead of just being a tool for trades it became the basis of all conflict between the game.
[/quote]

Yeah, that could have been interesting. The politics would be different, with a lot more emphasis on color unity. It would also be a lot harder for multi-colored alliances to get anywhere. Personally, I would have enjoyed a system like that.

So, I'm curious, why do people think that didn't happen. I wasn't around until 2008, and things were fairly set at that point.

[Vladimir]

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1292343269' post='2539502']
Yeah, that could have been interesting. The politics would be different, with a lot more emphasis on color unity. It would also be a lot harder for multi-colored alliances to get anywhere. Personally, I would have enjoyed a system like that.

So, I'm curious, why do people think that didn't happen. I wasn't around until 2008, and things were fairly set at that point.
[/quote]
At first people toyed with geographic areas on the ingame map (GATO was CATO (Cross-Atlantic) and NAAC was obviously Arctic). Colours came in with the NPO when we concentrated our membership on red to secure the senate, and for a while each colour only had one alliance. But as the world grew there was really just no basis for colour unity to take priority -- if two people on a colour dislike each other or have different goals what incentive was there for them to cooperate? Thus the issues pushing people apart on colours -- relationships, cultures, objectives, proliferation of 'leaders' -- were far greater than anything pulling them back together, which was really just the vague feeling that colours were meant to mean something. [Senators had no power until later on, and they're still a weak pull.]

If memory serves I posted quite a few suggestions back then, including giving Senators power (though the fact that I was all 3 of red's Senators may have tainted that suggestion a bit in some minds), to try and make colour spheres a more significant factor.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Vladimir

[TheyCallMeJeezy]

I thoroughly enjoy reading this thread. It's nice seeing a lot of old-timers come out and discuss history.

Thanks everybody.

[Hyperion321]

NSO doesn't pay up. MK attacks, and we'd be in the middle of a giant war right now rather than fantasizing what could have been.

[JBone]

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1292284622' post='2538889']
The game, or whatever you want to call it, is simple. All you need to do is change one thing in CN history and predict what the ramifications would be, and where we would be in the present day.
[/quote]

I would wipe out the formation of the UJP.

Never liked it, never saw the reason for it and certainly never happy that TPF was a part of it.

The [i]real[/i] \m/ and the [i]real[/i] GOONS would most likely still be around, they both added a spice to things that has been lacking ever since.

Gen[m]ay, who was actually quite close with TPF back then, would exist today.

MK would still actually be LUE 2.0 and not nearly so smug.

PC would have never come about, or at least not the PC we know today. Many of the TPF that left to form early PC did so due to the UJW and TPFs role in it, CTB, Twist and a few others anyways. That caused more damage than all the wars in TPFs history combined.

Sponge would have not had the opportunity to scatter the allies of NPO so easily, WUT and the OoO may have held together and all would be right with the world.....

[Sandwich Controversy]

The reason for the formation of the UJP was to protect themselves from NPO during the rebellion, when Ivan was hellbent on war with GOONS. That's a pretty good reason.

[JBone]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1292349828' post='2539561']
The reason for the formation of the UJP was to protect themselves from NPO during the rebellion, when Ivan was hellbent on war with GOONS. That's a pretty good reason.
[/quote]
...and how did that work out?

Patience, a bit of political savvy and faith in those who signed Drinking Buddies would have went a lot further.

[Ogaden]

Moo-Cows doesn't attack Ordo Verde while TOP is moderating talks between them and what would be the Karma coalition. TORN attacks Ordo Verde the next day alone, chaining out to IRON and then TOP and NPO as a second wave responding to VE and GOD attacking TORN.

Would have been a closer war, though I think the Hegemony would have still lost. A lot of people who went in on the Karma side would have either remained neutral or even gone in in defense of TOP.

Edited December 14, 2010 by James Dahl

[Cornelius]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1292293314' post='2539036']
VE sticks with the war and launches its nukes in the GCW.
[/quote]
I don't envy the position you were in there. If we hadn't have disbanded, I'd have come out swinging with my nukes and gone down in a blaze of glory. Maybe the VE is forcibly disbanded and I try to move on with GOD, if I get the chance. Maybe FAN goes on with their attack on NoV anyway and divides WUT (they only hit a couple of CIS nations in the war anyway). Maybe some of the alliances on the sidelines decide to come to our aid.

Of course, if you're going to question your decisions, then I have to question my own. Maybe I don't take that vacation after the previous Thanksgiving and manage to convince the rest of gov to turn down joining WUT, as I helped with turning down the AoA. Maybe I convince Egore not to go independent. Maybe I make more overtures to TOP and NpO, the only alliances that really supported us in WUT during the GCW. Maybe if I had done my job, I wouldn't have been so helpless when our darkest hour came. But who knows, maybe all that needed to happen for us to be where we are now.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Cornelius

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='Cornelius' timestamp='1292351238' post='2539578']
I don't envy the position you were in there. If we hadn't have disbanded, I'd have come out swinging with my nukes and gone down in a blaze of glory. Maybe the VE is forcibly disbanded and I try to move on with GOD, if I get the chance. Maybe FAN goes on with their attack on NoV anyway and divides WUT (they only hit a couple of CIS nations in the war anyway). Maybe some of the alliances on the sidelines decide to come to our aid.

Of course, if you're going to question your decisions, then I have to question my own. Maybe I don't take that vacation after the previous Thanksgiving and manage to convince the rest of gov to turn down joining WUT, as I helped with turning down the AoA. Maybe I convince Egore not to go independent. Maybe I make more overtures to TOP and NpO, the only alliances that really supported us in WUT during the GCW. Maybe if I had done my job, I wouldn't have been so helpless when our darkest hour came. But who knows, maybe all that needed to happen for us to be where we are now.
[/quote]
Everything happens for a reason. I can guarantee nobody would be where they are if even the tiniest details were altered. Can you imagine where we would be without Sponge? I can't.

[Chief Savage Man]

[quote name='JBone' timestamp='1292349649' post='2539560']
I would wipe out the formation of the UJP.

Never liked it, never saw the reason for it and certainly never happy that TPF was a part of it.

The [i]real[/i] \m/ and the [i]real[/i] GOONS would most likely still be around, they both added a spice to things that has been lacking ever since.

Gen[m]ay, who was actually quite close with TPF back then, would exist today.

MK would still actually be LUE 2.0 and not nearly so smug.
[/quote]

TPF would still be traitorous scumbags.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1292285375' post='2538902']
I actually do wonder what it would be like had we not founded Vox.
[/quote]

The Karma War is still fought at about the same point in history but ends in a much less decisive fashion, but in Karma victory. The Bipolar War is never fought.

My "What if?"...

ChairmanHal launches a coup within Ragnarok in February 2008, providing detailed logs to Moo at that same time detailing the plots being organized in the background against NPO in in exchange for Pacifican and Q support.

The result...

Ragnarok is ripped apart by civil war. SF and Q are immediately at war and allies for both sides are dragged in by treaty. A bloody struggle continues into early summer with white peace in the end. Ragnarok disbands, ChairmanHal joins NPO (ok, maybe I'd just quit ).

A second war, parallel to the Bipolar War, ends in a decisive Karma victory after Polaris joins the fight on Karma's side.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1292353500' post='2539604']
TPF would still be traitorous scumbags.
[/quote]

Didn't we establish, many moons ago, that you weren't even around Planet Bob in September 2007?

Nahh...TPF was on Electron Sponge's "let them live" list, along with MK. I never blamed Slayer for taking the deal, especially knowing what I knew then.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1292355522' post='2539627']
Didn't we establish, many moons ago, that you weren't even around Planet Bob in September 2007?

Nahh...TPF was on Electron Sponge's "let them live" list, along with MK. I never blamed Slayer for taking the deal, especially knowing what I knew then.
[/quote]
No, he's been around since 06. TPF made a deal with Polar to surrender, even before the war. It's not surprising since the entire alliance was founded on traitors from Fark. We should have seen that coming.

Edited December 14, 2010 by Sandwich Controversy